Honoured rank

[Scientist]

Right this was discussed in game and was decided there would be a vote on the issue as several of you disagreed.

The issue here is not whether we should vote on decisions as its obvious that is the way forward as it allows all to express there opinions, so please keep your votes and reasoning on the issue at hand.

So the officers and myslef thought an honoured rank would be nice to reward those who people in guild thought had gone above and beyond for a long period, anyone could nominate people for this rank and to get the ball rolling we nominated 2 people (Again the choices arent what we are discussing here, just the concept itself).

However some of you think this singles out people from the rest and others have said they help in private, I thought the nomination system would get round this but maybe I was wrong.


As for my vote Im for the idea as i think a thank you with no actual reward is not a bad thing, however please express your opinions as per the voting guidlines below

EDIT: Let me also state this vote is Guild members only

[madocks]

I vote against

I can only see it seperating the guild -

I for one feel that i have helped a lot of people, whether it be loans / quest help / general game advice / making weapons / armour / giving loot away. Not giving someone this rank will only cause agro. At the moment, you are saying that mattak is a better guildie than I.

Also, a lot of help is given in private - a loan for example, no one wants to talk about it aloud. Or if i loot a lvl 42 warrior item - i will PM a lvl 42 warrior, or just post the to them , with "return if you wont use" in the title....... I can see this only making people telling everyone in guild chat that they are helping xxxx with yyyy task.

The nomination process - If player A has recieved help from player B. Player A then nominates player B for this rank. However, it then goes to the officers to decide its outcome. What if all this help was done in PM and not in public guild chat, can the officers make this call, when they dont know what help has been given?

Also, final point.... Its a lot easier to give help at lvl 60 - you have all the trade skills up to 300 - are able to fly anywhere fast, have loads of money etc.

[GreenPiggy]

sounds good, as long as it is restricted to people who aren't rogues.....damn rogues

[TeePee]

I vote for. We should have a way of recognising those guildmembers who go above and beyond the call of duty to help others. After all, thats why we are in a guild!

[madocks]

everyone knows who the helpers are - do they need a label?

[ERU]

I vote against - can see HOW this can help at all

[TeePee]

Originally Posted by madocks

everyone knows who the helpers are - do they need a label?

That would be recognition as in attention or favourable notice.

[daverobev]

Here's my constructive comment:

While I do in fact feel honoured, I don't necessarily feel I have earned it. This kind of thing, while nice for the person receiving, will always generate grumbling from someone, deserved or not. I'm playing the game to have fun. Not to play the game for anyone else..."helping" in this game usually means saving someone else time. Sometimes it means really helping them, where something is just not soloable, but most often its "I can't do this at my level", or "I can't farm this item at my level"...so to save that person time, they are helped by being given items they could not obtain otherwise.

Is it "right" that Kerilus has access to Felcloth when he can't get any himself (except from the AH, of course)? Well...who knows.

If I have been grinding and pick up something I don't want, yeah I'll offer it round...thats blind luck with the drop rates in this game.

There is a difference between helping someone do a hard quest at the appropriate level or passing on good items you have a 1% chance of getting when killing a mob, and feeding lower level characters stuff to skill up their professions. Is it wrong? No. Is it abused? Perhaps just a little...not that it impacts on the higher level handing down because its probably easy work for them, and of course it means...er...some numbers in a box are higher for the lower level char. And they can make more stuff...or at least, they could, if the supplier will keep on giving them stuff...and by the time they have it they'll need the next thing anyway.

Er perhaps thats a bit off topic. What I'm trying to say is, a leatherworker going out of their way to make that nice l40 druidic helm (by collecting ingredients etc) for their buddy is REAL help. Giving someone 20 runecloth is nice, and if done regularly very nice, but chances are its not a big deal to the giver.

What I'm trying to say is, I'm not against the principle, but in practise I think its gonna be much more hassle than its worth...and that personally I don't feel I have helped the entire guild that much. At the end of the day you know who your friends are.

But I would also say that this whole idea of a clique needs to be got rid of. Because frankly it comes across like "we don't want you to have fun". There have been things I haven't been here for where "bad stuff" has happened, but of course I can't comment on that, and I know FoT amongst others has felt left out...but the only way round that is to try and organise things.

If you try to get a group together and then find yourself pushed out, you are more than within your rights to say so in open forum. But if you don't try and organise, and get left out because people who have been questing together have just naturally fallen together...thats not a fault on anyone's part, in my opinion. You can't have a "who'se right is it to get first refusal on the instance tonight" rota, its just silly. Its kind of a shame you pretty much need 2 out of 4 classes, for any 5 man job, and makes fighting for places nasty amongst the other what, 4 classes available to each side.

As usual rambled on too long...time for bed. Its a game...putting my guild rank at "Fish" would make me happy. But if it doesn't happen, I don't mind.

PS anyone need enchants, let me know, I'll try and be in Org for a sensible amount of time tomorrow...and if anyone has essence of air let me know as I'm out. Thanks!

Edit: My original constructive comment was going to be something like Ugh, Here we go again, or Stop Whining Please You're Giving Me Tinnitus...

[Allen]

Originally Posted by daverobev

Is it "right" that Kerilus has access to Felcloth when he can't get any himself (except from the AH, of course)? Well...who knows.

I'd just like to say that it really doesn't have that much of a benefit to me, I turn it into Mooncloth and send it to Lilith as I can't do anything with it yet.

Anyway, giving a couple of people an "honoured" rank will make those who help out a lot in ways that can't be seen by the whole guild (whispers, sending stuff by mail, grouping and helping them) feel a bit left out, even though they are thanked at every opportunity.

:edit: Post hugely edited as I was going waaaaaay off track.

[Beach]

I'll be in the nay camp as well. Can't add much more than has already been said really. I just believe that it will be quite divisive and the whole thing is so subjective that it could cause a fair few arguments (although we seem to thrive on those so maybe it's a good thing ). There's enough people confused/annoyed by the 'official' honour system without adding to the pot.

[daverobev]

Originally Posted by Allen

I'd just like to say that it really doesn't have that much of a benefit to me, I turn it into Mooncloth and send it to Lilith as I can't do anything with it yet.

Fair point, bad example on my part...I was meaning more generally stuff you couldn't get at the level you are at...higher levels mining stuff, skinning, herb gathering, etc..the pain in the arse cooldown on mooncloth is exactly the opposite, it only costs the farming time and time to get to/from a moonwell.

[daverobev]

Oh and I also forgot to say: Despite the fact I reckon ME being honoured is not necessary, I in no way mean my negativity in this thread to be taken that I don't think GreenPiggy is more than deserving of recognition. Of anyone in the guild, the person I "see" helping out others most often is him.

[ravenblood]

Im against any type of "ranking" for those who help more or less , the spirit of this guild is a spirit of brotherly love ( or something like that ) , we all help each other with money , gear or trade goods , tips and etc.
The most important thing is to help , not to get honoured by helping , because those who help wont be forgoten by those who were helped.

[TeePee]

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. Not everyone chooses to contribute to the guild as much as others.

Think of the rank as like a medal, awarded to the exceptional for their contribution. It's not something to go out and try to earn. If you help somone in someway then they may mention it to the officers. TBH I think we all know who the most and least helpful are. The help may be arranged over pm, but the officers get to hear about it, don't worry about that.

This is simply one way of having an active rank structure, instead of leaving everyone to stagnate at veterans rank.

[Beach]

Originally Posted by TeePee

This is simply one way of having an active rank structure, instead of leaving everyone to stagnate at veterans rank.

I've been 'stagnating' at member rank, so thanks for that. I thought we had an active rank structure - GM, Officers, Vetrans, Members and initiates. Also, how long will they keep the honour rank? or once given does it stay forever or, to use your word, stagnate?

Originally Posted by TeePee

The help may be arranged over pm, but the officers get to hear about it, don't worry about that.

Not always, if 'help' is arranged privately between two people then they can't know.

Originally Posted by TeePee

TBH I think we all know who the most and least helpful are.

I know who's helped me and I know who I've helped, not who's the most and least helpful. Do we assume then that those who don't get nominated or receive an honoured rank are selfish, unhelpful individuals? Are they dishonourable? Am I unhelpful?

[redpiggy]

Beach the reason you havent been promoted is that you smell and that i vetoed it cos you tease me about cake too much

KIDDING

Nah the real reason is that as the newest officer i get to do it - but i forgot to last night

will be rectified as soon as i come on