News - AMD exec says NVIDIA neglecting gamers

[chaotic_russ]

yawn

[Perfectionist]

Looks like ChuvelxD figured out how to make a proxy account, cute.

Bet poor Mr Weinand is thinking with friends like that who needs enemies.

[RichardHuddy]

SiliconDoc,

Well, it's always a treat to read such a carefully reasoned analysis of one's own arguments.

[Please note the ironic smiley.]

Since you spent so much time on my spelling mistakes I'll just draw your attention to my favorite of your sentences.

Originally Posted by SiliconDoc

Pure total hand to face self owned a dn awned hypocrisy.

I admit that I was a little mystified by that.

I'd be more than happy to debate many of the other points you raise elsewhere - but right now this forum discussion is about the observation that I made about NVIDIA neglecting gamers.


Richard Huddy [Graphics Developer Relations, AMD]

[aidanjt]

Originally Posted by SiliconDoc

...

Peon troll fail. At least an AMD executive is here trying to explain his point rationally, and openly. Having rabbid fanboys and nzone employees blather nonsense doesn't do anything to help nVidia's case, either.

[aidanjt]

Oh well, since I'm slightly bored, what the heck...

Originally Posted by SiliconDoc

No offense to you at all fellow gamer, but I am me, not some other poster you know, or some "proxy" cracker.

Uh huh. Sure, we buy that.

Originally Posted by SiliconDoc

I apologize for having such a sharp intellect that I notice the things that the less than paying attention crowd mindlessly bypasses entirely.

My my, humble much? Kinda like nVidia, come to think of it.

Originally Posted by SiliconDoc

Since there really is no rebuttal to my points available for even the ati rep, other than more ridiculous hypocrisy or spin, I certainly can't blame you for failing to come up with a single one either.

You made no points worth responding to. Hypocrisy or spin? Awesome double standards then.

Originally Posted by SiliconDoc

The sad truth is, my abrasive opinion is based upon rock solid facts won't be knocked down, so attack the messenger, not the points made.

The 'messenger' would be more trustworthy if he were being up front about who he is, and no, your opinions are not based on facts, btw.

Originally Posted by SiliconDoc

Not your fault, it's so bad in it's totality, I don't want to believe it either, but it just keeps jumping out at me, the curse of the top 1%er brainpower in the world.
Did you see the 5890 (x2) from ati is over 13 inches long ? LOL
I just have to laugh, the fan runs at over 4,000 rpm and is easily characterized as "industrial leaf blower".

While conveniently leaving out the fact, that the pictured 5890 X2 is an engineering sample, and doesn't reflect the packaging of the final product.

Originally Posted by SiliconDoc

When the 5870 was released, a very famous review site (AT) had their review, and the author, in the tradition of the endless stream of ati lies for the underdog red fan rager bias base, claimed the 5870 was the "standard 10.5".
It was, of course U N B E L I E V A B L E that it even occurred, but that's how the red roosters roll, with "little white lies" all the time.
Why would anyone lie unless they are covering up the less than desirable truth ?
I was supposed to keep my big fat "suspected proxy" pie hole shut and agree that 11.1" is actually equal to 10.5" , but I didn't.

As opposed to, say, bumpgate, withholding supply to artificially create excessive demand, and pretending to be someone 'impartial' on a forum where your company is being criticised?

Originally Posted by SiliconDoc

The author even text posted he "had a pic" he wasn't allowed or able to use or couldn't fit in the article of "the cards" (including of course the competition's) side by side, and provided a link to his "not in the article pic", where clearly the 5870 was good half inch plus longer than "the 10.5" cards including nvidia's".
I have no idea if he was forced to lie, or chose to. He had the cards "in his hands" and "personally did the testing" - so claiming ignorance on length just wasn't happening.
I guess the real deal is all those with less than ethical scruples live for their own wallets and "competition keeps prices lower" so no lie for ati is too small or too big as long as it keeps that billion dollar a year loser pumping out gaming cards. ( Yeah, I get it.)
Tell any lie you can, just keep that red polygon sales count going no matter what, it's the only hope for sitting on a little bit of extra cash for the gaming hobby, so just lie, lie, lie to keep the price war going, and lie of course for the lesser, the loser, the bleeding in the hole disaster ready to dump under into bankruptcy. (Ati/amd, of course, it even made the top ten most likely to blow into bankruptcy in 2010 *Forbes or some such).
Yeah, I get it - just shut up, swallow the lies, proclaim the red cards as glorious and wonderful, and cross the fingers that enough people go with the hype and hooligan hogwash that the whole red ati deal doesn't blow away and collapse in chapter 11 or 13.
Golly, even mentioning it's a losing billions disappearing money pit is considered a sinful post, and the raging red roosters always challenge it, because they are so clueless( I suppose), they have no idea it's 100% true.
--
I guess some are thrilled with smarmy lies and the spinning spiderweb deceptions, or are clueless or so personally miserly and greedy that they will accept billion dollar losses for their ati master so long as they get that gaming card for a perceived $10 less, and can back enough hogwash to "help keep ati going".
That's the other sad part, the ati fans, if they actually do get their ati card pick a bit cheaper for the same "only framerate matters" performance, they actually are contributing to the likely eventual destruction of ati from the massive monetary losses, and should instead pay more for that red card to help offset the billion a year losses, and really keep competition alive for sure.
Not like that would fit the "storyline", though.
That really is sad. If you are a real ati fan because you've had nothing but good luck with their cards and drivers, or for whatever reason, then pay more, especially if you mention the "cost effective" smaller cores. Give ati a break and bone up on their more expensive prices and really support them, not take the lowest dollar you can scrape from web and leave then hanging in billions of losses....
It's pretty sad if you don't know the truth, but even sadder if you're banging away for competition and telling lies for the lesser losing billions lamer just to keep it going, and you aren't even getting paid to do it, or you are, in fact, getting that card so cheap you are helping destroy ati's bottom line.
That's sad man.
Just think how tragic that is, how tragic the whole scene be if it happens - bankruptcy.
I'm not laughing thinking about it.
But you can still bash me - that is kinda funny (or at least fun).

Yawn. Next time, please use paragraphs.

I'm not claiming AMD is perfect, nor am I particularly a fan, if you look real close, you'll see I've got both AMD and nVidia cards (and Intel and AMD CPUs). The stock HSF I got with my 4870 wasn't completely sufficient, the firmware isn't exactly bug free and Sapphire has yet to release a fix for it, which is effecting stability. AMD's Linux binary drivers could also stand to do with much improvement (possibly a complete rewrite of the Linux specific code). My nVidia card stays relatively cool and stable. But, if I had to chose between AMD and nVidia as to which company is more ethical, I'd say AMD, hands down.

Would AMD become less ethical if it were dominating the market?.. I don't know, possibly. But they are now. That makes them 'good'.

Has nVidia done some things right?.. Sure, their Linux propitiatory drivers are solid, and fast. They introduced VDPAU, and made it more widely usable. The cards and Windows drivers are decent as well. But that's offset by bumpgate, endless silicon rehashes, blatant managerial level hatred of opensource (the failfest that is nouveau, complete refusal to release *any* hardware spec sheets to the public domain, exposing any binary interactions with the core kernel, tegra, etc), price fixing, market manipulation, failure to support current open and pseudo-standard APIs on time, and so on, so forth.

Should you feel the need to reply to anything I've said here, please a) be upfront about who you are, you reek of corporatism, b) use paragraphs, and c) use less aimless ranting, and more facts, please.

[Perfectionist]

I am reminded of two things:

http://timecube.com

http://skreemr.com/results.jsp?q=frontier+psychiatrist

[HEXUS]

GPU giants kick off a debate right here in the HEXUS.community forums.

Read more.

[kalniel]

Originally Posted by hexus

The debate is raging, and the beauty of the HEXUS.community forums is that the everyday gamer can take part and voice his/her opinion

But let's keep it clean, insult free and, well, Hexus shall we?

[GheeTsar]

Do I take it Silicon Doc's post has been deleted? I'm almost disappointed - he really sets the benchmark for trolling.

I know he caused no end of problems on Anandtech before being banned. A quick google search suggests he's been banned from many, many different forums.

[GaryRW]

Originally Posted by GheeTsar

Do I take it Silicon Doc's post has been deleted? I'm almost disappointed - he really sets the benchmark for trolling.

I know he caused no end of problems on Anandtech before being banned. A quick google search suggests he's been banned from many, many different forums.

Indeed - I think he ranks up there with SnakeOil - the only other troll whose name actually stuck in my memory. Actually, MadDoctor's efforts in the comments on this article: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=3663 deserve credit for the quite unbelievable depths those "comments" reach...

It's why I like Hexus. You can actually have people debating AMD vs Intel, Nvidia vs ATI/AMD without the inevitable descent into completely irrational, pointless and oh so clearly partisan comments.

[Methanoid]

Lock these two guys in a room with their handbags and let them slug it out.

As they said in Mad Max 3 - "two men enter, one man leaves"

TBH I couldnt give a monkeys who has the fastest GPU. What matters to me is the range that is offered - AMD does have good mid range "average" gamer cards but so does the Green team. I'm looking for the range - who does best passive cards, who does best low profile cards, who does the best card NOT needing an additional power connector.

I'm not seeing much action from the Green team on those fronts.

Green
1 - is there anything passive faster than 9500GT?
2 - you can find 9800GT in low profile but fan noise isnt good
3 - 9600GT Low Power edition - not bad at all

Red
1 - 4850 passive can be found, 4670 passive too (many)
2 - 4650 low pro - not too noisy either plus 4550 low pro AND passive
3 - 4670 - good - but where is that low profile version for HTPC/Gaming

One thing the Green boys can be congratulated on is MCP79/9300/9400/Ion (*insert name here). I have two and they are both good products for Intel. I wish AMD also did Intel chipsets but then again Nvidia is withdrawing from chipset market (booooo)

Naaah, lets just lock 'em in the room and see who emerges... FIGHT!!!

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

For some reason both the HD5750 and HD4770 need external power even though they could easily be bus powered TBH!!

The HD5750 1GB has lower power consumption than an HD4770 or a 9800GT:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/..._5750_review/7

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid...=expert&pid=11

[ajones]

hmm... back to the OP!

Yes, for sure, AMD have the crown at the moment and there have been some rather 'atiphobic' support antics on NVidia's behalf of late... but is that just because they've dropped the ball?

I seem to recall that the HD2900 was a complete fiasco at the time; late and underpowered; and it wasn't until the 4800 series that they started to compete at the high end. However I don't recall NVidia saying that AMD was neglecting gamers.

I'm no fanboi... I'm dreading the day I have to retire my 7800GTX, and am running a 3870 and 4850 at the moment. If I had to buy a new graphics card tomorrow, it'd be a 5850, but I'd rather wait to see what NVidia can cook up before splashing out my hard-earned.

Are NVidia neglecting gamers? I can't agree with that.

[scaryjim]

Originally Posted by ajones

I seem to recall that the HD2900 was a complete fiasco at the time;

I wouldn't say "complete fiasco", but Nvidia (with the 8800GTX) had a ridiculously good DX10 GPU out 6 months before ATi made it to the table with 2900, and the 2900 was nowhere near as fast. On the other hand, it was also a lot cheaper. Thing is, back then the GPU market was almost entirely about gaming (I think pretty much only folding@home was doing GPGPU, and that was exclusive to - you guessed it - ATI graphics cards!) so it wasn't really feasible to talk about a GPU manufacturer "neglecting gamers" (quite without considering that ATI were providing GPUs for the XBox360 and Wii by then, of course) - ATI had, however, definitely dropped the ball as far as desktop GPUs go.

Originally Posted by ajones

Are NVidia neglecting gamers? I can't agree with that.

It's almost certainly a little harsh, but you can't expect impartiality from an ATI exec when they're talking about NVidia

My impression of tech news over the last year or so is that very few NVidia press stories have centred on enthusiast gaming - we've had Ion to help netbook users get a little more from their ultraportables (which, let's be honest, are basically consumer electronics devices nowadays), and lots of stuff about how much GPGPU will revolutionise a variety of areas that require intensive compute power. To contrast, my experience on ATi is basically a whole host of graphcuis releases in the mid range to help gamers at particular budgets get the best out of their rigs that they can. I ceretainly don't think NVidia are "neglecting" gamers, but I do get the impression that gaming, and particularly pushing up PC Gaming framerates, is no longer NVidia's focus...

[nightkhaos]

I personally think nVidia should stop reling on tech like CUDA, PhysX and 3D Vision express, or at least open it up to other venders and/or push to have it ported into the next release of OpenCL, and then focus on making kick arse GPUs like they used to. Right now, they're relying on their previous market dominice to affect consumer choice, when it is clearly becoming apparent to most gamers that nVidia are no longer delieving the best tech.

What's worse is that they do silly things like disable dedicated CUDA and PhysX cards unless the primary GPU card is an nVidia, which to me is a sign that they are aware of this too. Comeon nVidia, you're a big company, you can handle this.

[Perfectionist]

Originally Posted by nightkhaos;1807478I

things like disable dedicated CUDA and PhysX cards unless the primary GPU card is an nVidia

That and the persuading Batman Arkham Asylum developers to make it impossible to turn on anti-aliasing unless the graphics card is nvidia are enough to make me not want to buy from them ever unless they seriously change their policy and start acting like a responsible company, not trying to force competitors out of the market with dirty tricks and treating gamers like ... (developers who accept money to do this stuff though are just as much to blame)

They only get away with treating people who buy PC games like that because it's a minority of people in the overall population - if Microsoft did something like disable sound hardware acceleration on music players other than windows media player there'd be swift action by the EU. This stuff is just bloody illegal and I can't wait for when PC games become more mainstream in the future (need the old generation that didn't play games growing up to die out) so stuff like this is protected against in the same way customers of other things are.
... Since obviously it seems to be too much to ask for the corporations to regulate themselves, like always...