News - Windows 7 hits 600 million sales

[aidanjt]

You're in a minority of disgruntled users that Microsoft doesn't need to worry about.

You speak for the whole world, do you? What a great honour, to be positioned upon such a high pedestal by the world.

[Mattus]

The ONLY reason MS want to push desktop users towards Metro and especially Metro apps,is to make more money. That is all. They will get a greater cut from software sales on the platform and bulk up their app store so the numbers look better when compared to iOS and Android.

Microsoft is pushing Metro apps because it's looking at the growth of the iPad and other tablets and it can see that continuing on the path of traditional Windows is just a route to accelerating obsolescence. Tablet devices are a paradigm shift in computing. 10-20 years from now, relatively few people will own a desktop PC. Lots will own tablets, and there will probably be great convergence between laptops and tablets, e.g. more touchscreen devices with detachable keyboards.

Of course there will still be demand for desktop PCs. But MS didn't corner 85% of the OS market by making core products which appeal mainly to minorities. Windows is a mainstream product, and the trend among the mainstream is away from traditional computing and towards tablets and touchscreens. That will be the case however many PC enthusiasts complain about it.

[aidanjt]

Microsoft is pushing Metro apps because it's looking at the growth of the iPad and other tablets and it can see that continuing on the path of traditional Windows is just a route to accelerating obsolescence. Tablet devices are a paradigm shift in computing. 10-20 years from now, relatively few people will own a desktop PC. Lots will own tablets, and there will probably be great convergence between laptops and tablets, e.g. more touchscreen devices with detachable keyboards.

Of course there will still be demand for desktop PCs. But MS didn't corner 85% of the OS market by making core products which appeal mainly to minorities. Windows is a mainstream product, and the trend among the mainstream is away from traditional computing and towards tablets and touchscreens. That will be the case however many PC enthusiasts complain about it.

Tablets aren't computing devices, they're consumption devices. There's a big difference. Even TVs have CPUs, memory, and mass storage, but nobody is under any illusions as to its non-general purpose.

[Malphas]

That doesn't contradict anything he said though. Most people use their PC's as consumption devices, not for multipurpose computing or production work. Desktop PCs are already a much smaller percentage of overall computer sales compared to a decade ago.

[Jonj1611]

I think at the end of the day you are always going to have people divided on this, but I hardly think the people that don't like it are a minority of only a few, nearly everything written about Windows 8 in computer mags or on forums or websites all has people saying they don't like metro.

And as for "Most people use their PC's as consumption devices, not for multipurpose computing or production work", well isn't that what people use a pc for ? Multipurpose computing or production work? what else do they use it for?

[aidanjt]

That doesn't contradict anything he said though.

Only if you're asleep.

Most people use their PC's as consumption devices, not for multipurpose computing or production work.

Correction, most people use their PC's as consumption devices, most of the time. And since fondleslabs can't do anything productive, they still require a PC to get anything done. Tablets are also-has's you can leave on your night stand. They in no way replace the PC.

Desktop PCs are already a much smaller percentage of overall computer sales compared to a decade ago.

And? Laptops are still just as PC as desktops.

[peterb]

You speak for the whole world, do you? What a great honour, to be positioned upon such a high pedestal by the world.

Hmm, sarcasm, 'The sharp end of a blunt mind'

So lets cut out the snide persons, attacks and concentrate on the arguments, which seem to have polarised into an 'either/or' instead of perhaps side by side.

The rate of growth if tablets is increasing - and the tablet/touch interface is not just confined to consumer devices. Bought a train ticket at a self service ticket machine? That's an embedded Windows O/S. Candidate fir Windows 8? Maybe. What about the ticket sales machine the guard uses. Touch device. Supermarkets, cash registers.. Lots of touch devices.

That doesn't rule out Win7 in an office environment, which is why Win7 is being supported for at least another 8 years.

[aidanjt]

The rate of growth if tablets is increasing

Nobody has said it isn't. That's not at issue at all.

Bought a train ticket at a self service ticket machine? That's an embedded Windows O/S.

How do you know it's an embedded Windows OS? Did it have a BSoD? If not, it could just as easily be a Linux OS. Nor is this in any way relevant to the necessity and clear and continuous demand for PC operating systems.

Candidate fir Windows 8? Maybe. What about the ticket sales machine the guard uses. Touch device. Supermarkets, cash registers.. Lots of touch devices.

Again, I repeat, NOBODY is saying there is *NO* room for a touchy OS from Microsoft. They're saying that ramming it down *everyones* throats whether they like it or not nor whether it's an appropriate interface for the system or not is brain damaged.

That doesn't rule out Win7 in an office environment, which is why Win7 is being supported for at least another 8 years.

Being supported and being pursued is two different things entirely. 'Being supported' adds up to little more than 'barely tolerated' when technology companies feel that a product isn't getting enough press hype anymore. And after the 8 years are up everyone will be stuck with Metro brain damage.

[Malphas]

Only if you're asleep.

Correction, most people use their PC's as consumption devices, most of the time. And since fondleslabs can't do anything productive, they still require a PC to get anything done. Tablets are also-has's you can leave on your night stand. They in no way replace the PC.

So your entire argument for why Windows 8 is flawed is because tablets cant replace PC's in every single usage scenario (which no-one has ever suggested)? Despite what you think there (as actual surveys have shown) plenty of users who use their computers purely to perform a handful of tasks (e.g. web browsing, instant messaging, playing media) which could be performed just as well on a tablet or similar device. In addition even if everyone did still have to own a PC along with a tablet as you claim (which I think is nonsense, long term) then it's still not the point I've been making this entire time - it's still another device Microsoft can potentially get a license fee from. You just seem to be suggesting Microsoft should forget about trying to increase sales (Microsoft already dominates the traditional PC sector, which is already at saturation point, with less frequent replacement than used to be the case, so the driving factor for increasing sales numbers is now to branch into tablets and smartphones) and concentrate purely on keeping their already captive market happy. If you were a CEO of any company and this was the kind of logic you came up with, shareholders would be demanding your resignation.

And? Laptops are still just as PC as desktops.

A laptop is less suited for production work than a desktop obviously. There's a sliding scale in consumer computing devices, with the desktop at one end and the smartphone at the other, in between you have the traditional 15"+ laptop, the 11"-13" ultraportable, the convertible, the tablet, the "phablet", etc. As a company who's main product is a consumer operating system, it's entirely appropriate for Microsoft to be targeting all these form factors. However your hardheaded determination to see things in black and white, PC and not-a-PC means this point is lost on you, which i can only assume is the reason you apparently find what's happening with Windows 8 so inexplicable. If you can't see why what's happening makes sense from a business standpoint, after it's been explained multiple times now by various people in the thread, then you're just never going to comprehend it.

[peterb]

do you know it's an embedded Windows OS? Did it have a BSoD? If not, it could just as easily be a Linux OS. Nor is this in any way relevant to the necessity and clear and continuous demand for PC operating systems.

Because I have seen it boot - I can differentiate between a windows system booting and a Linux system booting

Again, I repeat, NOBODY is saying there is *NO* room for a touchy OS from Microsoft. They're saying that ramming it down *everyones* throats whether they like it or not nor whether it's an appropriate interface for the system or not is brain damaged.

Until the final release of Windows 8, and it's successor (and the Win 9 development cycle would coincide quite nicely with the end of life of Win 7, it is a little premature to make a claim that it will be the only interface.

Being supported and being pursued is two different things entirely. 'Being supported' adds up to little more than 'barely tolerated' when technology companies feel that a product isn't getting enough press hype anymore. And after the 8 years are up everyone will be stuck with Metro brain damage.

Support is an active process, with updates.

I deplore the rush to the touch interface at the expense of the Kbd/monitor/mouse interface, first introduced by Apple. And not only my MS; I don't need to point out the introduction of Unity and Gnome 3.

Apple have got it right (as was pointed out earlier in the thread) with two variants of their OS, one for tablets and touch devices, one for the desktop PC. Maybe MS will follow a similar path.


<admin_mode>And my comment about snide comments wasn't just directed at aidanjt. The normal HEXUS rules about discussion apply just as much here as anywhere else. Discuss the issues, refrain from personal attacks</admin_mode>

[aidanjt]

Until the final release of Windows 8, and it's successor (and the Win 9 development cycle would coincide quite nicely with the end of life of Win 7, it is a little premature to make a claim that it will be the only interface.

Not really. The release preview is out already, which is as good as RTM, as in there wont be any significant changes. And as we've seen from that, Microsoft has continue to railroad Metro all over it, all traces of classic Windows is being purged, along with their pronouncement to only support Metro with VS Express 2012. So from those we have significant indicators to make reasonable assumptions as to what they fully intend to do for the foreseeable future.

I deplore the rush to the touch interface at the expense of the Kbd/monitor/mouse interface, first introduced by Apple. And not only my MS; I don't need to point out the introduction of Unity and Gnome 3.

So we agree with each other.

Apple have got it right (as was pointed out earlier in the thread) with two variants of their OS, one for tablets and touch devices, one for the desktop PC.

Right. Which is exactly what Microsoft should be doing.

Maybe MS will follow a similar path.

Which is exactly what they're not doing.

[kalniel]

Am I right in saying, aidanjt, that your issue isn't specifically with windows 8, but more the MS policy of largely only selling one version of its OS at a time? This is the 'forcing' element that you are referring to?

Did you have the same concern for XP, Vista, 7 etc? If so, I can understand the frustration, particularly if you didn't like any particular OS release as you don't appear to like Windows 8.

However it makes perfect sense from a business point of view. There's no reason Microsoft should be forced to compete with itself, and it appears there is enough competition out there for you to have choice when it comes to buying a computer as to what kind of OS you want on it (*nix, OSX, Windows.. maybe even Chrome or Android in the near future)

If you would prefer something not offered by the market any more, and you think it's a view held by a sizeable number of people then why not create a product to fill it? Unless you are in a minority then you should be able to put together a convincing business case.

[crossy]

Am I right in saying, aidanjt, that your issue isn't specifically with windows 8, but more the MS policy of largely only selling one version of its OS at a time? This is the 'forcing' element that you are referring to?

Not sure about aidanjt, but personally I've got no issue with Microsoft doing what they are with the one version. No what I continue to object to is merely that UI. Yes, I know MS have their eye on "huge" Metro app sales with bleed through from/to tablets and smartphones. And yes, I know touch is the way of the future (got a tablet and smartphone myself). And vendors will like it because it forces users to choose a more highly spec'd (and therefore more expensive!) touch-enabled machine rather than a simple budget one*.

So that accepted, what I continue to object to is that non-touch-enabled users - for whom this latest UI is a retrograde step - have been given no option. No "Windows7 classic" desktop, and it would appear (from discussions elsewhere) that if someone dares to offer that alternative then MS are busy trying to shut them out.

(* thought occurs, there seems to have been quite a few announcements about Kinect for Windows. And it strikes me that if they could get this working very close up, then you've got a way of enabling correct Metro use on a legacy box. And at not much additional cost to the user. Hmm, interesting)

Getting back to the article - I've got to wonder whether Windows7 sales will continue to increase post Win8 launch with perhaps Windows XP users finally deciding to take the plunge and "go '7" rather than "makin' a date with 8".

[aidanjt]

Am I right in saying, aidanjt, that your issue isn't specifically with windows 8

No, my issue is solely with Windows 8 and the direction Microsoft is taking in that regard.

This is the 'forcing' element that you are referring to?

The 'forcing' element is from Microsoft railroading Metro over everything despite crystal clear indications that the market has bitterly resisted the tabletisation of their PCs. This, despite a decade of attempts to do so by Microsoft and partner OEMs, the Tablet PC is still a monumental failure.

Did you have the same concern for XP, Vista, 7 etc?

No, I didn't, even though previous iterations brought changes, they didn't break productive desktop usage patterns, even Vista didn't bother me aside from minor driver niggles.

However it makes perfect sense from a business point of view. There's no reason Microsoft should be forced to compete with itself

It wouldn't be competing with itself any more than Apple is competing against itself by developing iOS and OS X in parallel (other than the situation being entirely inverted, i.e. Microsoft sucking hard in mobile space and way ahead in the PC space, and vice versa for Apple.) They're different operating systems for different tasks. While they can share a common codebase and components, at the end of the day they should do what task they're meant to do well, not try to do everything badly. One size doesn't fit all, as well you know.

and it appears there is enough competition out there for you to have choice when it comes to buying a computer as to what kind of OS you want on it (*nix, OSX, Windows.. maybe even Chrome or Android in the near future)

If you would prefer something not offered by the market any more, and you think it's a view held by a sizeable number of people then why not create a product to fill it? Unless you are in a minority then you should be able to put together a convincing business case.

Ultimately, whatever brain damage Microsoft inflicts on themselves and the world wont disadvantage me, but it will disadvantage others, and probably themselves as Apple is poised to gobble up their PC market, which has already been growing in market share by quite a bit since they hit it off in the mobile space and widened their brand recognition.

[dangel]

Not really. The release preview is out already, which is as good as RTM, as in there wont be any significant changes.

Not really my understanding - the final UI look for the desktop has yet to be completed and MS state they are still making code changes until the real RTM (which is still some way off). Whilst MS have changed the way they 'preview' the OS (confusingly) the 'RTM' designator does indicate final code from which they can only patch via Windows Update from then on and this isn't the case for the "Release Preview".

For the record i'm not really convinced by Metro thus far but I barely see it using it fulltime in a working environment.

[kalniel]

No, my issue is solely with Windows 8 and the direction Microsoft is taking in that regard.

The 'forcing' element is from Microsoft railroading Metro over everything despite crystal clear indications that the market has bitterly resisted the tabletisation of their PCs.

I see, so why do you care so ardently? You've already said it doesn't disadvantage you, and presumably you don't have shares in MS (if you do, the AGM is a more effective place to raise concerns than the Hexus forums )