kad nuff said ..
but it has been proven that not all isp's can trace there gateways to your ip ..
read about a court case with a bloke on bethere ..they could not prove at the time he was downloading because they could not prove it was his ip address
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To murmur in pity that my words were true
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To see the wizard one must look behind the curtain ....
There's no such thing as an IP scrambler - your IP address must be known by the server in order for routers to send the data to the right place. Anything that claims to do this is probably some form of VPN.Originally Posted by Jingee
well according to an ip tracer, im currently sitting next to St Mary Le Bow church, cheapside, London. which is a fair distance out.
it was somewhere in kent a month ago.
so im assuming the ISP has some better form of IP tracer software so they know whos doing what.
so if the copyright holders themselves monitor the torrent sites and do IP tracing to see which IP is downloading the most, so they can then go ahead and prosecute, how would they know it was from the computer thats currently using that IP. besides i thought everyone was on dynamic IP which changes every so often anyway.
according to http://whatismyipaddress.com/dynamic-static that says:
would they have to prosecute everyone whos on that same IP?If you have Dynamic IP Addressing through your Website Host it means that you are sharing an IP Address with several other customers.
and if it changes every month or so how would Warner Brothers or EA say, be able to prove it was the current computer on that IP that downloaded the files in the first place?
just my thoughts on the matter.
Online IP trackers aren't terribly accurate; they can estimate your location as IPs are assigned based on geographic location for efficiency, having similar IPs assigned to systems at opposite sides of the planet isn't exactly ideal for routing tables.
However, ISPs are more than capable of knowing the exact connection an IP belongs to at any given time, or indeed into the past if they choose to log DHCP assignments. While your address may change, it's still assigned by the ISP's DHCP server; to avoid IP conflicts they also need to store the MAC address of the device the address is assigned to, along with other data such as PPP login credentials.
So yes, your ISP could easily know, whether they choose to log is another matter...
Edit: To clarify, it is not possible to share an IP with other customers at the same time, however as I said it may be assigned to other devices once the DHCP lease expires. But there's a special case, which isn't used by any ISPs in the UK AFAIK; multiple customers can be placed on a private subnet, behind NAT, with a single public-facing IP, to save costs on reserving IP addresses. However, this causes all sorts of trouble so it's not commonly used, and while it would take more effort, the ISP could still track which user is downloading what.
Last edited by watercooled; 27-06-2012 at 08:05 PM.
stevie lee (27-06-2012)
thanks watercooled, makes a bit more sense.
so the copyright holders would need the DHCP/Mac address logs from the ISP and the IP download logs from the torrent sites and then match up the dates and time to be able to prove who downloaded what then?
What happens when there is multiple people living in the same house and its shared amongst everyone? Is the line owner assumed to be guilty?
Check the terms and conditions of your broadband contract. The contract owner is probably liable. (Since they are the ones responsible for sharing the connection).
Yeah, exactly. But torrent sites probably make a fair effort to avoid logging anything for that reason...
Yes, the line owner would be held liable - unless he/she could persuade whomever it was who was downloading the Bieber/Rhianna/etc content (which should be a crime against taste anyway) to confess.
I'm assuming that they'd play this the same way as speeding fines - car owner is liable unless they can prove that it was someone else.
Check your modem - it should tell you what IP address you've been allocated. If memory serves me rightly the ISP (usually) operates DHCP - so your modem's MAC will get that IP allocated until it reboots at which point the IP address is returned to pool and you'll maybe get a different one. I've rebooted my kit here three times in two weeks (****ty, but very expensive, Cisco router to blame) and in each case got a different IP. I've also heard that ISP's maintain logs of what DHCP allocations were given out (dhcpd logs?).
So if Warner etc know that 90.40.30.10 (made up IP addy for example) downloaded some rubbish from dodgy-mp3s.ru, then they can back check and find that this is a BT address (for example). BT will then be able to tell them that on the date/time in question that was allocated to MAC 08:00:23:22:78, which their customer records will say is your modem. Cue knock on the door by the rozzers!
Why do you think that anonymizers such as TOR are becoming so popular?
Oh, and it's been my experience that the quality of IP address locators vary wildly - some seem to be able to place you within about a mile, others less accurate - although +/-10 miles seems to be an average CEP when I've used them. E.g. I just tried http://www.iplocation.net/ on a whim and it reckons that I'm either in Woking or Bradford (both wildly wrong!), whereas http://www.maxmind.com/app/locate_demo_ip got it nearly right (about 5 miles wrong)
Last edited by crossy; 28-06-2012 at 09:00 AM.
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Whilst its easy to prove an IP Address has been downloading from a certain website, how do ISP's identify the content that has been downloaded?
Deep Packet Inspection
But do ISP's actually do this for all of their traffic? I doubt it as its a waste of resources and surely breaches privacy and human rights laws. Surely a warrant would have to be produced first before they could inspect what you are looking at or downloading.
Has there actually been a court case where the bill payer has been had, despite them claiming they did not download it? A few people are saying they are liable, I'm just wondering if this has a current legal ruling?
WEP / WPA / WPA2 can all be compromised fairly easily now. Basic Google searches will tell you how. So given that every router I've seen over the last 5 years comes with Wi-Fi on by default, how exactly are they going to prove this without the persons system?
Yes:
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/networki...ment-39909136/
Agent (29-06-2012)
That's really confusing, as BoingBoing points out: "Even though British law exempts people who provide Internet access from liability for their users' copyright infringements, the pub was still fined (the details of this are confused). "
http://boingboing.net/2009/11/28/pub...k-after-u.html
It seems that the case in general is shrouded in mystery though as places are claiming the pub won't give any information out to the public.
Insane though.
Yeah, I read that article and left feeling perplexed...I did like one of the comments...
We have some guy using a publicly available mechanism to steal something. The maker of the mechanism is OK but the company who bought/leased it are fined, whereas the thief is nowhere to be seen.
Now transfer that concept to something else. If a house burglar gets on a bus made by Scania and operated by First Bus Transport, then breaks into a house to nick a TV, then uses the same bus later to get the TV back to his own house, should First Bus Transport be fined for the burglary?
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