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Thread: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

  1. #17
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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    I don't know - can you tell by looking at a video on you-tube whether it's illegal or not? Or do you just assume that because it's on there it must be legal? I can imagine the same applies to a whole generation of users with links from Google or forums/facebook/twitter.
    Good point...

    And yeah, Slysoft is registered somewhere it's legal, currently Antigua and Barbuda but IIRC they move about as laws change.

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    Well, if you pay 10-20 quid for 2 hours entertainment without thinking about the breakdown and what your paying for, I can understand why you don't get it. Why should I pay for the making of the film multiple times? This is the single biggest cost and they charge you multiple times for it if you watch it on multiple formats.
    but I do get it. it's YOU that doesn't get it

    anyways, being a normal person of sane mind, i don't go thinking about the breakdown of what i'm paying for with most things. i just think of what i want, look at the price and think "do i want to pay that or not", and pay for it depending on my yes/no answer. that's what most people do

    i don't know where you are going to view movies in the cinema, but it's about £9 peak time when i go, i think the most expensive was to see something in 3D in the "posh seats". that's well under the NMW. i've paid over £100 per ticket with booking fees on top, then over £100 train ticket and then £60 for a hotel room to see a band play for 2 hours, so nipping down the road to see a movie for 2 or 3 hours for £9 is a pretty cheap source of entertainment

    i'd also like to see your calculations as to how you could pay for a movie multiple times even if you did pay £20 for your ticket. even the most low budget of films these days will cost about £3m-£5m, but often they will cost upwards of £100m, several times that for some movies. so to see hundreds of millions of quid worth of entertainment for £9 is a good deal

    however no-one forces you to go to the cinema, you can just wait until it's out on dvd or bluray, and usually within a few months of release the dvd will be around £5 and bluray around the same price too. or you can just rent it from blockbuster for £3 or so, or get a lovefilm or similar type subscription that let's you watch loads of stuff for a relatively low monthly cost


    Just how much extra do you think it costs to take the cinema cut and slap it on a bluray?
    you tell me, as i honestly don't know

    all i know is that rental costs for video suites to master movies for release isn't cheap, and the work to clean up / remaster older movies (not necesarily ancient ones but ones from the 90s too) can be extremely costly

    on top of that you have all the legal issues that need to be resolved such as clearances and royalty payments, promotion, distribution deals, shipping costs, the retailer has their own costs, the taxman takes a chunk, so it all add's up to a considerable sum, even ignoring the physical manufacturing costs from setting up plants to the cost of raw materials

    so to be able to buy a bluray from amazon for £5 and you can watch that movie as many times as you want until you are literally bored to tears with it, then you can gift it to someone else to enjoy or sell it on ebay and maybe even get back more money than you paid for it, is a pretty good deal


    In fact, why isn't it substantially cheaper to go and see the same film a second (or third etc) time at the cinema? Each additional viewing should just be the cinemas overheads.
    because it simply doesn't work like that at all. i'm sure if you did a bit of googling you would find somewhere that explains this in more detail, but the cinemas usually have a deal where a percentage of takings goes to the distributer. due to the cost of making, promoting and distributing a movie being many millions if not hundreds of millions of pounds, you need lots of bums on seats just to break even, and often films won't cover costs during cinema release and rely on dvd/bluray sales just to break even. not every movie makes a profit, which is similar to record sales. in fact perhaps most movies and albums don't make a profit, it's just a small number that do. so whilst batman make rake in millions, for every batman there is 100 movies that lose money, and for every adele album released there are 100 albums that don't make money either. the profitable releases help cover losses elsewhere. without the batmans in this world you wouldn't get interesting low budget movies that are enjoyable but few people see


    You do not own the physical copy. You are paying for a license to view the content. A portion of that is production costs.....a large portion of it.
    As it is now, it would be like calling a repair guy out and to fix 3 items in your home and he charges you a callout fee 3 times on top of the fee to fix, even though you only called him once and he visited site once. Would you be happy with that?
    you own the physical media, that gives you the right to view the contents. you can sell that physical media. you don't need to buy the media. but if you did buy the dvd and then you want the bluray, as both media forms grant you a license to view the content you can legally sell one of them. so you can sell your vhs to help cover the cost of the dvd then sell the dvd to help cover the cost of the bluray, and then you can sell the bluray when you have no use for that. this is entirely different to your analogy that makes no sense at all, as you are comparing a service to a physical item that contains a license which you can resell. you can't resell the service, you could only resell the item that was serviced

    You obviously don't quite get how your being shafted over a barrel.

    i'm not. i get a good deal. you obviously don't understand how it works, nor understand how much of a bargain you can get. for a start i'd suggest you have a look at play and amazon for blurays and then rethink if you are paying £20 a ticket to see a movie in a cinema. you could get 4 bluray movies delivered to your home for that, which you can keep as long as you want, watch as many times as you want, and then sell and get some or all of your money back, maybe even make a profit

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    It's probably more a case of people claiming ignorance/refusing to accept what's legal rather than not understanding it in most cases, I mean it's not rocket science! .
    i think that plays a large part in things. people know it's wrong but just make up excuses. i'd rather someone just says "i know it's wrong, but i do it because i can and i'm not likely to get in trouble", as you can't really argue with that

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    I'm sure if they thought they could get away with it, they would change you extra each time you put the same disk in your player........
    The original 'Divx' was a DVD which had a limited play. Company went out of business quickly.

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    I do not get why people think films are expensive. even bluray isnt mega expensive. £14 for a movie you can watch over and over compared to a one time viewing of £9 per person doesn't sound a bad deal to me. people are happy to pay over £3 a pint at the pub but aren't willing to pay a few quid for a movie? the other alternative is a subscription service such as lovefilm which is what £6 a month which is around the same price as renting one movie for one night from a local rental store.

    As for pc games and drm I do wonder how many people buy the game but cant get it working due to the crappy drm and then download a version which works. why should I have to be online to play a single player game? if the companies offering those games ever go out of business people cannot play the games they legitimately brought which seems really stupid.
    Think about how many products make you connect them to the computer and register them to make sure you didn't steal them. If companies didn't treat their customers as criminals then maybe more people would be willing to buy their products.

    IMHO google and other legitimate search engines are part of the problem. If you search for *insert band here and latest album cd* the first two or three pages are torrents or other forms of illegal download and on the 4th page you finally get play amazon etc.



    I have uploaded a screenshot as an example. I typed in dragonforce ultra beatdown and the suggestions google offer will almost certainly generate illegal downloads. If I like a band I will buy their cd and just search on websites such as amazon play or buy the cd at a supermarket since google seems to be no help in finding legitimate links for music.
    Last edited by lodore; 22-11-2012 at 05:40 PM.

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    Quote Originally Posted by borising View Post
    Everything is illegal on net
    Soon to be changed to if some folk get their way ...

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    I want the studios to address these before they can open their mouth :

    - If I buy a game on a console, I should be allowed to download the game on PC for Free , perhaps using a code which was at the back of the manual for the console version.
    - I watch movies only once. I would consider paying £3 max for a movie and this does not mean streaming but me getting to download the movie and then being able to edit the movie so that I can remove nudity/sex/swearing scenes and watch it with my siblings/parents.
    - For TV shows, I want studios to stop doing the current DVD encryption business. On my DVD, I expect episodes to be in this format S01E01.avi, S01E02.avi, etc. Again, lets me edit the episode so that I can remove nudity/sex/swearing scenes and watch it with my siblings/parents. Getting a DVD boxset is a real pain. You have to convert it to mkv which takes time, adjust resolution, way tooo much time! And buying a DVD boxset doesn't let me copy the files to play on my phone while I am on the train.
    I am also happy to pay £1 per episode download.
    - I am happy to pay decent prices for software. Adobe Photoshop £390 .... wot?! Will only pay £20 for it.
    I also refuse to pay ripoff prices for crappy software. Windows 8 Pro full version shouldn't be more than a fiver!
    - I also want the music studio to ban hip-hop/r&b/D grade artists and get artists who can sing rather than do borderline pornographic music videos.
    Even Backstreet Boys > Rihanna!
    I don't listen to current music at all anymore. Long live the 90's!
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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    Quote Originally Posted by OilSheikh View Post
    I want the studios to address these before they can open their mouth :

    - If I buy a game on a console, I should be allowed to download the game on PC for Free , perhaps using a code which was at the back of the manual for the console version.
    Why? PC versions cost a huge amount extra to make, they don't code themselves.


    - I am happy to pay decent prices for software. Adobe Photoshop £390 .... wot?! Will only pay £20 for it.
    I also refuse to pay ripoff prices for crappy software. Windows 8 Pro full version shouldn't be more than a fiver!
    So support the cheaper or free alternatives. Pirating expensive software just means it has less competition and will continue driving prices higher. Dumb thing to do and self-defeating.

    - I also want the music studio to ban hip-hop/r&b/D grade artists and get artists who can sing rather than do borderline pornographic music videos.
    And piracy helps this how?

    Interesting views though, thanks for sharing them.

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    Most of the reasons there are plain silly TBH.
    If you don't like the price, find something else!

    Somewhat analogous to, 'that car isn't as fast as I'd like it to be, so I'll steal it instead lolz'.
    Or 'Intel Core i7 isn't worth £260 to me, I'll pay 50p tops, so I'll steal one instead'. Just buy a cheaper one then...

    To me it just sounds like another way of saying you pirate everything possible just because you can get away with it.

    On the subject of music, I wish studios would stop using strong dynamic range compression on what's otherwise decent music. Some argue it's so it sounds better on crap headphones a lot of people use, which makes little sense to begin with, but the decoder can add compression optionally, if necessary, instead of permanently destroying the quality of the music on the CD.

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    hey OilSheikh,
    PC versions normally have more settings and require more coding than console games so why should you get the pc version free?
    If you are only going to watch a film once why not rent it from your local video store which would cost around £3.
    Why not just buy something which you deem suitable for you to watch with family? you can get a film which includes bluray dvd and a download copy which you can then watch on the train.
    the most expensive version of photoshop is designed for professional photographers and for that market it isnt a bad price since they earn a living using it. You can get adobe photoshop elements which is a cutdown version for the home market which is around £50 I believe. No one is forcing you to use windows 8 pro. I like windows 8 pro and feel the £25 upgrade download price was a good deal. I dont know what it has to do with piracy but I don't like mainstream music either. I like classic rock and heavy metal.

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    Quote Originally Posted by OilSheikh View Post
    I want the studios to address these before they can open their mouth :

    - If I buy a game on a console, I should be allowed to download the game on PC for Free , perhaps using a code which was at the back of the manual for the console version.
    but why?

    if i buy a double duvet cover should i get a free single duvet cover too?

    why should a company spend money making two version of a program if they are only going to be paid for one?

    - I watch movies only once. I would consider paying £3 max for a movie and this does not mean streaming but me getting to download the movie and then being able to edit the movie so that I can remove nudity/sex/swearing scenes and watch it with my siblings/parents.
    but why? how would you like someone else to take your work and change it into something else after you spent time and effort and money creating that work into your own vision? if there is nudity/sex/swearing in the movie then perhaps it's not the right movie to be watching with siblings/parents if you don't feel comfortably in doing so. maybe you should be watching something else

    and for £3? for 2 or 3 or more people to watch a movie that cost millions to make, and you still want to butcher it? you may as well wait on it to come on ITV and get some added adverts in the middle as a bonus, and maybe the news and weather in the middle

    - For TV shows, I want studios to stop doing the current DVD encryption business. On my DVD, I expect episodes to be in this format S01E01.avi, S01E02.avi, etc. Again, lets me edit the episode so that I can remove nudity/sex/swearing scenes and watch it with my siblings/parents. Getting a DVD boxset is a real pain. You have to convert it to mkv which takes time, adjust resolution, way tooo much time! And buying a DVD boxset doesn't let me copy the files to play on my phone while I am on the train.
    I am also happy to pay £1 per episode download.
    but you don't need to convert it to dvd, just stick it in the dvd/bluray player or pc and play the disc you bought. again, if you have to consider editing it, it's perhaps not the right material to give to or watch with certain others

    - I am happy to pay decent prices for software. Adobe Photoshop £390 .... wot?! Will only pay £20 for it.
    I also refuse to pay ripoff prices for crappy software. Windows 8 Pro full version shouldn't be more than a fiver!
    but they spend millions and years developing that stuff. if you don't want to pay £390 for software you can download a free alternative instead or use something cheaper. there are plenty of free programs will be more than enough for most people

    - I also want the music studio to ban hip-hop/r&b/D grade artists and get artists who can sing rather than do borderline pornographic music videos.
    Even Backstreet Boys > Rihanna!
    I don't listen to current music at all anymore. Long live the 90's!
    wasn't the 90s the period when RnB music rose to prominence with r kelly and TLC and aliyaah etc? why would you want to band those things just because you don't like them? it's simpler just to not buy and listen to it and let others buy and listen to it if they want to

    there is a certain type of person who wants to ban or get rid of things just because they don't like them. how would you like someone to ban all the things you liked just because they didn't like the things you liked?

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    I think the first mistake of companies fighting pirating is thinking that they can stop it. It's the way things are now and fighting it just means innocent people get caught in the crossfire causing more angst, and also it costs them tons of cash. Instead they just need to adapt and make games f2p to start off, give the person a good feel for the game and how it plays, then if you like it you subscribe or whatever. Alot of really popular games are going that way and it makes the most sense to me. Heck I think it could increase business because you would try games that you wouldn't have even bothered trying when you have no real idea about it.

    I HATE paying for a game and not knowing what I am getting, and ofcourse 80% of games seem to dissapoint these days so why should I throw my money at the these comapanies. It's not like games are cheap these days, last game I bought was Diablo 3 and that was £45, only bought it to play with a good friend so I was prepared to take a chance, plus I loved the previous Diablo's.

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    Quote Originally Posted by OilSheikh View Post
    I want the studios to address these before they can open their mouth :

    - If I buy a game on a console, I should be allowed to download the game on PC for Free , perhaps using a code which was at the back of the manual for the console version.
    - I watch movies only once. I would consider paying £3 max for a movie and this does not mean streaming but me getting to download the movie and then being able to edit the movie so that I can remove nudity/sex/swearing scenes and watch it with my siblings/parents.
    - For TV shows, I want studios to stop doing the current DVD encryption business. On my DVD, I expect episodes to be in this format S01E01.avi, S01E02.avi, etc. Again, lets me edit the episode so that I can remove nudity/sex/swearing scenes and watch it with my siblings/parents. Getting a DVD boxset is a real pain. You have to convert it to mkv which takes time, adjust resolution, way tooo much time! And buying a DVD boxset doesn't let me copy the files to play on my phone while I am on the train.
    I am also happy to pay £1 per episode download.
    - I am happy to pay decent prices for software. Adobe Photoshop £390 .... wot?! Will only pay £20 for it.
    I also refuse to pay ripoff prices for crappy software. Windows 8 Pro full version shouldn't be more than a fiver!
    - I also want the music studio to ban hip-hop/r&b/D grade artists and get artists who can sing rather than do borderline pornographic music videos.
    Even Backstreet Boys > Rihanna!
    I don't listen to current music at all anymore. Long live the 90's!
    Lol OilSheikh.
    Unfortunately your valuations and ideas seem a little unrealistic. I'm unsure why what you consider to be a 'decent price' for software is the right price? It sounds very much like you want to live in a very left-wing country, where you do your bit and someone else does their bit and in return you get stuff which costs a lot to develop for very little.
    And as for banning artists? While I might not enjoy those particular genres of music either, banning them is hardly the way to go!

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    Quote Originally Posted by lodore View Post
    IMHO google and other legitimate search engines are part of the problem. If you search for *insert band here and latest album cd* the first two or three pages are torrents or other forms of illegal download and on the 4th page you finally get play amazon etc.
    Yeah let's get google to censor as much of the internet as possible, I only want to look at the bits the government decides I should do anyway.

    I regularly illegally download across all formats, I also regularly purchase across all format. The Digital Economy Act is a mess and will be horrendous to enforce. This may be a stereotypical view but I truly think it would be far more profitable (literally) in the long term for music labels, content providers etc to try and work out how to engage the huge audience who clearly want what they have, but don't like the terms they're getting it on, than to try and bang up every 15 year old that downloads a bieber album.

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    It's not necessarily a case of censoring, just avoid having such phrases show up in autocomplete and drop them further down search results. If someone knows specifically what they're after, it's going to make much difference, but it might prevent a lot of people pirating; having it show up high on search results might imply it's acceptable to a lot of people.

    I think the anti-piracy acts are more about prosecuting people who share media as opposed to downloading it AFAIK, at least for now.

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    Re: News - Confusion in the UK over what is and isn't legal on the web

    There has always been a black market and as such pirating will always exist. You can't stop it, just like you can't stop the Sun rising each morning.

    If they started to offer better prices and better ways to obtain X and Y then people be more inclined to buy it.

    Let's look at Steam, it's awesome. It offers great prices for many games, they do awesome sales pretty often.

    Many games that I downloaded before I have replaced by buying on Steam when the price was right so as such I don't download games anymore since I can get them on Steam for cheap. Many of my retail disks have been replaced with Steam copies like the entire Dawn of War series.

    Games like Modern Warfare 2, 3, 4, 5 and Black Ops 1 and 2 and am pretty sure Black Ops 3 and all the other clones they will release in the following years are not worth £40 to me and their over the priced Map packs that cost £11 each are again are a total rip-off. In the end you are paying £80 or £100 or more for one game that will last a year or less that has the same play style as all the others before it.

    I'm pretty happy to download them and only replace them when they cheap. I bought Black Ops from Game few months ago for £11 but Steam still sales it for like £30-£40.

    I be happy to pay for the above games if they was £20 each and possible Map Packs at £5 each, though I prefer the old days where they would release a giant add-on pack for £15-20 which had many maps.

    Add map modding to the games again and that's a other incentive to buy the games.

    If there was a Steam version of for Movies and TV media, that would sell really well I think.

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