News - Google's updated terms of service details email scanning

[HEXUS]

A new paragraph openly explains that emails are analysed for tailored ads and more.

Read more.

[shaithis]

One step too far for me, time to hunt down a non-US cloud email provider who I can trust.....

[g8ina]

Surely not legal ?

[Goobley]

One step too far for me, time to hunt down a non-US cloud email provider who I can trust.....

I've been using GMX for quite a while now (t&c here https://www.gmx.co.uk/terms.html ). They are American owned now but were German when I signed up. I've been pretty happy with the service and the ease of things like IMAP setup.

[smithy1158]

One step too far for me, time to hunt down a non-US cloud email provider who I can trust.....

You should request a beta invite for this: https://protonmail.ch/.

Secure, encrypted email hosted in Switzerland, provided by ex and active CERN scientists.

[herulach]

Surely not legal ?

in the us? Probably, they've been doing it ever since gmail launched anyway, there was a legal case about it last year IIRC that said it was ok.

[crossy]

Can't see what the big deal is with this - after all, it's not as if it's secret that Google makes its money from ads.

Our automated systems analyze your content (including emails) to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customized search results, tailored advertising, and spam and malware detection. This analysis occurs as the content is sent, received, and when it is stored.

Crucial word is "you" in that as far as I'm concerned. Where I would have severe reservations is that personal information was sold on to 3rd parties in a non-anonymized form. That is "here you go Mr Dodgy Corp, Joe Bloggs at 13 Anywhere Street, is 31 years old likes bondage, motorbikes and beer, and knows the following people ...".

Actually maybe I'm being horribly naive, but I'd much prefer that the T&C's were clearly stated - then at least you're going into this with your eyes open? Not that I particularly like Gmail that much - my "main" email account is one that I pay money for (part of a hosting package). Gmail (and Hotmail/Outlook) are used only for disposable stuff - like Amazon ads.

The other thing that worries me greatly is feature creep. We know that Google tracks your browsing habits, are doing the same with email ... how long are text messages and phone calls (voice recognition) going to stay "private"? Those last two are perhaps unlikely given that it's effectively an unsanctioned wiretap - but if they came in then that would be the point at which I'd switch my phone away from Android.

Maybe that guy I was listening to the other day was right, he was saying that "Google's motto is claimed to be "do no evil" when in fact it's actually "do no evil ... or at least do it better than the NSA". He's maybe got a point...

[herulach]

Can't see what the big deal is with this - after all, it's not as if it's secret that Google makes its money from ads.


Crucial word is "you" in that as far as I'm concerned. Where I would have severe reservations is that personal information was sold on to 3rd parties in a non-anonymized form. That is "here you go Mr Dodgy Corp, Joe Bloggs at 13 Anywhere Street, is 31 years old likes bondage, motorbikes and beer, and knows the following people ...".

Actually maybe I'm being horribly naive, but I'd much prefer that the T&C's were clearly stated - then at least you're going into this with your eyes open? Not that I particularly like Gmail that much - my "main" email account is one that I pay money for (part of a hosting package). Gmail (and Hotmail/Outlook) are used only for disposable stuff - like Amazon ads.

The other thing that worries me greatly is feature creep. We know that Google tracks your browsing habits, are doing the same with email ... how long are text messages and phone calls (voice recognition) going to stay "private"? Those last two are perhaps unlikely given that it's effectively an unsanctioned wiretap - but if they came in then that would be the point at which I'd switch my phone away from Android.

Maybe that guy I was listening to the other day was write, he was saying that "Google's motto is claimed to be "do no evil" when in fact it's actually "do no evil ... or at least do it better than the NSA". He's maybe got a point...

Pretty certain that texts are scanned, at least on newer versions of android. I also don't think that's incompatible with the do no evil tag line. Personally I'm more or less completely bought into googles ecosystem. I know they know where I am at any given point in time, and my search history, and to be frank I don't actually care. The convenience and freeness factor far outweighs anything else. Of course I'm aware enough to make a concious decision about it a lot aren't and being upfront about things like this in ts &cs is at least one step closer to making people aware of it.

Ultimately I've a lot more trust in google with my data than the government.

[crossy]

Pretty certain that texts are scanned, at least on newer versions of android. I also don't think that's incompatible with the do no evil tag line.

Dammit, that Lumia replacement for my (much liked) S3 is starting to look more likely. Especially with today's news about easier cross-form-factor development.

Personally I'm more or less completely bought into googles ecosystem. I know they know where I am at any given point in time, and my search history, and to be frank I don't actually care. The convenience and freeness factor far outweighs anything else. Of course I'm aware enough to make a concious decision about it a lot aren't and being upfront about things like this in ts &cs is at least one step closer to making people aware of it.

Ditto - and I'll argue that yours is a pretty healthy attitude to take. Saw a podcast that described it as "snake handling" - as long as you know which end is gonna bite you, and you take precautions, then it's not something to be much afraid of.

Actually I'm kind of wondering about Microsoft's services - last time I used Hotmail's web client there was a lot of ads. Are those blanket ones, or is some targeting going on there too? If they're relying on Bing results from me then they're going to be disappointed since I can't remember the last time I used that service.

Ultimately I've a lot more trust in google with my data than the government.

+1 on that! (and +100 when it comes to the US government).

[pp05]

Even if you're aware of it most will not understand the implications long-term. I read somewhere that with Kitkat your homescreen is a search screen. That includes numbers in your dialler app and who you dialled most frequently. Probably includes messaging.

What is an alternative here? MS do it (or trying to get in on the act), Apple must do it to some extent, Blackberry is alright but how long are they viable?

[herulach]

realistically there isn't an alternative (random kickstarter attempts at crypto phones notwithstanding) purely because no one would be willing to pay the real cost of these kinds of services (think about the staggering scale of infrastructure google have, you're never going to get the critical mass on privacy grounds alone).

[McEwin]

I thought that the original idea of creating platforms (beyond search) that are free to use in order to display adverts was okay. But that is completely different to analysing my private email and personal information to sell targeted ads. That isn't want I originally signed up for and it goes way beyond what I think is reasonable and acceptable. If you want to sell your sole then go for it - but don't cheat me into doing it too.

[crossy]

I thought that the original idea of creating platforms (beyond search) that are free to use in order to display adverts was okay. But that is completely different to analysing my private email and personal information to sell targeted ads. That isn't want I originally signed up for and it goes way beyond what I think is reasonable and acceptable. If you want to sell your sole then go for it - but don't cheat me into doing it too.

If you feel like that then I guess the smart move is to take your Android phone and put a 3rd party ROM on it, but don't install the GApps package. Either that or merely just stop using gMail - easily done since it's not as if there aren't plenty of alternatives!

I've also seen folks recommending alternate dialers and text apps - mainly for usability gains, but the privacy aspect is a nice bonus I guess. Guess the point that I'm trying to make (badly?) is that there's simple things you can do to deny Google that data vampiring target.

[Hicks12]

I always love how people can get so irate about Google and privacy... dont get me wrong I understand the need for privacy and I appreciate everyone has a different stance than myself but its in the terms and conditions its fairly obvious that Google scans all the content you provide it and does its 'magic' handling of this data to then target you with relevant information, I am happy with it and I cannot understand why people dont just simply switch provider if they dont like it, no one is forcing you to stay with Google .

I am in the Google ecosystem and I love their innovative ideas and the whole open (mostly) aspect, Google now knows exactly when I need to leave and what traffic is in my way along with the simple things of what news is interesting to me and postage tracking (via gmail!), If you like android but dont want google then its pretty easy to compile a ROM from AOSP source if you have the drivers available, lets be clear that android is itself fine and that it is only the GAPPS that can be easily installed that can cause these privacy controversies.

Love my Nexus 5 .

[TaintedShirt]

I find it amazing that people still get annoyed when this old news gets a new airing.

Google is giving you search, email, calendar, task list, G+, youtube, maps, navigation, google earth, google drive, google docs, chrome, google now etc. This is all free to the user. How exactly do you think Google is paying for this? Their revenue is mainly ad driven. If google can target ads and get better results (i.e. people click on them more often) then Google gets paid more.

I don't like the fact that all my gmail is scanned but it's not as if there is a person rifling through my email. It's just a program looking for keywords.

I'm not sure whether they are scanning text messages, but since the latest version of android the text message app is no longer baked in and you can choose what app you want to do your texts.
You could try WhatsApp? lol, facebook will no doubt be scanning that eventually and as usual it will be opt out by going through twenty pages of options trying to find the correct tick box.

If you want to keep text messaging entirely private use an app like TextSecure (check out the actual url, ) and as long as the recipient is using the same app then the message is encrypted end to end. As far as I know this is now the text messaging service in cyanogenmod.

TBH after all the recent news we should just expect an invasion of privacy every time we go on the net. The fact that a company wants to tell us explicitly how it is invading our privacy is actually unusual.

[crossy]

I'm not sure whether they are scanning text messages, but since the latest version of android the text message app is no longer baked in and you can choose what app you want to do your texts.

I'm pretty sure that the Messages apps is still there even in KitKat, but I'm sure that Google would prefer you to use the Hangouts app for text instead. I gave it a go for a short while, but found it really annoying ("would you like to add this contact to your G+ circles" continuously) so fell back to the default. Of course (and maybe I'm picking you up wrong - in which case apologies) you've been able to replace Google's (or is it Android's) text messaging app since I got a Donut phone.

You're right about the "old news rehash" angle though - I suspect that it's Apple and Microsoft "encouraging" this.