News - Microsoft profits hurt by Nokia acquisition

[HEXUS]

Nokia's contribution to Microsoft profits was minus $692 million.

Read more.

[azrael-]

Seems Steven Elop was a bit too competent running Nokia into the ground, so that Microsoft could acquire it cheaply. Ah well, the cost of doing business...

[crossy]

Also there is talk that Microsoft will stop any work on the feature phone business and get more cheaper Lumias out there.

Problem with that strategy - at least here in the UK - is that there's still a lot of the mobile providers who are focused on the old (2G) products with a lot of voice minutes and texts. Whereas I'd argue that if you're replacing a feature phone with a smartphone then you pretty much need some data allowance - say 100MB/month. Apart from that, dropping the Asha's etc would make a heck of a lot of sense to me.

If MS want to do a low-end Lumia without any camera then I'd happily buy it to replace my current works feature phone (also a Nokia).

Biggest problem though is that I assume that the Nokia brand won't be allowed to do tablets, which would be a shame. We've got a 2520 tablet here and it's better built than the Surface.

[Otherhand]

I wonder how much of this is because of the strange design choices with the new models? Lots of people bought 520/620 phones, but the new models in that area of the range do little to improve upon those older models and in many ways are worse. Then there's the 930, which is a great phone but very expensive. The very first day these models were announced, all the comment boards for Windows Phone sites lit up saying the same things: "Why did they do this to the specs?"; "I'll wait to see a 730 or 830"; "If we don't hear something soon, I'll pick up an unlocked 2nd hand high-end Lumia", etc. Disappointment festered for far too long before the phones were even available to buy. This was like anti-hype.

I know because I've been keeping an eye in this myself - eBay traders have been doing a brisk trade in 9xx and 10xx Lumias, which are cheaper than ever and a better option. I can't say this is exactly why the division has lost so much money, but it doesn't help. Who knows, maybe if they'd shown a better new family, those losses might be significantly smaller.

[aidanjt]

Throwing out a crappy Android phone before promptly killing it a la MeeGo certainly didn't help.

[3dcandy]

Doesn't help when they try to sell you a Samsung/Android or iphone in the shops though does it?

[TheAnimus]

I wonder how much of this is because of the strange design choices with the new models? Lots of people bought 520/620 phones, but the new models in that area of the range do little to improve upon those older models and in many ways are worse. Then there's the 930, which is a great phone but very expensive. The very first day these models were announced, all the comment boards for Windows Phone sites lit up saying the same things: "Why did they do this to the specs?"; "I'll wait to see a 730 or 830"; "If we don't hear something soon, I'll pick up an unlocked 2nd hand high-end Lumia", etc. Disappointment festered for far too long before the phones were even available to buy. This was like anti-hype.

I know because I've been keeping an eye in this myself - eBay traders have been doing a brisk trade in 9xx and 10xx Lumias, which are cheaper than ever and a better option. I can't say this is exactly why the division has lost so much money, but it doesn't help. Who knows, maybe if they'd shown a better new family, those losses might be significantly smaller.

You seen this announcement

http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/07/23/lumia-530/

A cracking phone for 100EUR on the street.

The fact is that this division hasn't 'lost money' per say, but it is an investment. At the moment the biggest rise for MSFT was due to Bing getting more market share and add revenue, as well as the Azure stuff growing two. Bing used to be a bigger write down than the mobile devices has ever been, as was xbox.

[Brewster0101]

Really want to give the Nokia 1520 as go, swop out my Note 2 - But Microsoft have a very half arsed attitude to updates and keeping up with the field of competition.

[crossy]

Really want to give the Nokia 1520 as go, swop out my Note 2 - But Microsoft have a very half arsed attitude to updates and keeping up with the field of competition.

Not sure I quite agree - a lot of the competition seem to be going for innovation for innovation's sake (e.g. fingerprint readers - wtf!), whereas the Nokia's "just work". Biggest pain is that the Black update took an incredible amount of time to get certified by some of the carriers.

We have/had an HTC and a Nokia Windows phone in the house and the Nokia is definitely the better phone of the two - although the HTC is prettier. Biggest problem for MS though is definitely 3rd party software support. The HTC WP8 phone owner has now "downgraded" (?) to a Galaxy S3 because of the lack of software support, (plus HTC absolutely crippled the 8S by giving it a totally inadequate amount of storage which meant the apps you could take with you was VERY limited).

What Microsoft should do now though is get that "8.1" update out to the customers as fast as possible. That Cortana "assistant" could be a good sales gimmick. Oh, and continue to encourage developers to develop for it of course!

Note 2? You getting the Kitkat upgrade for that? Because my Note 10.1 isn't - damn you Samsung!

[Otherhand]

You seen this announcement

http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/07/23/lumia-530/

A cracking phone for 100EUR on the street.

The fact is that this division hasn't 'lost money' per say, but it is an investment. At the moment the biggest rise for MSFT was due to Bing getting more market share and add revenue, as well as the Azure stuff growing two. Bing used to be a bigger write down than the mobile devices has ever been, as was xbox.

Ah, I hadn't seen that, no! It's a great entry level model to bring people onto Windows Phone, but as far as I can tell from the communities such as WPCentral they really need something for the customers who bought 520/620 to buy as an upgrade. One of the biggest complaints about the 630 was the low RAM, so yet another 512MB phone isn't the best (although if any model should have it, it's a new 5xx one like this).

There are a few people griping about the way FFC has been ditched on the x30 phones, but I'm not sure that's really inconveniencing many people (more people seem to fear than desire a camera pointing at them now!) - probably one of the better sacrifices. 1GB is increasingly seen as the minimum acceptable amount of RAM, but Nokia/MS haven't been listening. The two big features that would really sell a new 7xx/8xx-position phone would be higher-res sceens and/or the excellent cameras from the older 9xx models. Either or both of those would be fantastic, and I'd certainly buy one.

[crossy]

Ah, I hadn't seen that, no! It's a great entry level model to bring people onto Windows Phone, but as far as I can tell from the communities such as WPCentral they really need something for the customers who bought 520/620 to buy as an upgrade. One of the biggest complaints about the 630 was the low RAM, so yet another 512MB phone isn't the best (although if any model should have it, it's a new 5xx one like this).

Wasn't one of the big "smackdowns" from the WP devs that their system was a lot more efficient than Android, so was better suited to the "budget" specs? When I've borrowed a 620 it's seemed pretty rapid - only place that has me doing a "wtf" is on updates which seem to take a glacial amount of time. If that's due to memory shortage then that's a good enough reason to push for the "proper" memory allocation.

One thing about Android that I find worrying is that despite, all the protestations from Google to the contrary, the resource requirements seem to be slowly increasing. When the S3 came out it's 1GB RAM was deemed sufficient, got my G3 and there's folks complaining that a "mere" 2GB RAM is low for a "flagship" these days. I had an opportunity to try a "budget" Android smartphone with 512MB RAM (Galaxy Mini 2) and it was a truly horrid experience - although how much of that was due to TouchWiz I wouldn't like to say. Suffice to say that if I had to have a phone with 512MB RAM then I'd take the 620 over the Mini 2 every time.

What I will agree with though is that 512MB RAM is more suited to the 500 series, and that the 600 series should get 1GB. No technical reason for this - purely marketing.

[kalniel]

Rumours of a decent 830 are what's currently keeping my Moto G purchase on hold...

[TheAnimus]

Ah, I hadn't seen that, no! It's a great entry level model to bring people onto Windows Phone, but as far as I can tell from the communities such as WPCentral they really need something for the customers who bought 520/620 to buy as an upgrade. One of the biggest complaints about the 630 was the low RAM, so yet another 512MB phone isn't the best (although if any model should have it, it's a new 5xx one like this).

The issue is that they 6/7/8 are all kind of the same phone, I think MS should have just delinated on screen size, maybe camera quality, and given them all 1GB, however, I can see that they don't want to do that, because it stops them charging significantly more for the 820.

There are a few people griping about the way FFC has been ditched on the x30 phones, but I'm not sure that's really inconveniencing many people (more people seem to fear than desire a camera pointing at them now!) - probably one of the better sacrifices. 1GB is increasingly seen as the minimum acceptable amount of RAM, but Nokia/MS haven't been listening. The two big features that would really sell a new 7xx/8xx-position phone would be higher-res sceens and/or the excellent cameras from the older 9xx models. Either or both of those would be fantastic, and I'd certainly buy one.

Funny thing about front facing camera, many people say they never use it! I also dis agree about bringing in the 9xx series cameras, I think that would be making the situation so odd as to why buy a 9? Unless it was just screen size, but then, would people pay £100 for that alone? Meanwhile the BOM for the 7/8 would have increased, meaning they miss out.

Wasn't one of the big "smackdowns" from the WP devs that their system was a lot more efficient than Android, so was better suited to the "budget" specs? When I've borrowed a 620 it's seemed pretty rapid - only place that has me doing a "wtf" is on updates which seem to take a glacial amount of time. If that's due to memory shortage then that's a good enough reason to push for the "proper" memory allocation.
What I will agree with though is that 512MB RAM is more suited to the 500 series, and that the 600 series should get 1GB. No technical reason for this - purely marketing.

Yeah it does very well indeed, which I dare say is kind of this problem. Why buy a more expensive phone when a cheaper one feels just as good? You have to gimp the cheaper ones some how.

Notice that link I had mentioned it was 80 EUR before taxes and the like. Given that they've had Lumias before at £60-70, I wouldn't be surprised if we see one at £50-60. They really have to cut corners to make that happen, and I question the use of a device with only 256meg of RAM for webbrowsing in todays modern HTML world (ergh!)

[Top_gun]

[QUOTE=TheAnimus;8430]

http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/07/23/lumia-530/

A cracking phone for 100EUR on the street.

According to this review suggest otherwise.

[TheAnimus]

According to this review http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/nokia-lumia-530-vs-520"]review [/URL] suggest otherwise.

Take it you mean this link: http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinio...mia-530-vs-520 ?

Well that is the point, it's cheaper than the 530, a lot of the things they compare are non issues really. The camera is crap, it will now be crap but faster to get your crap photo, the CPU will allow for longer battery life, and all for less money.

Edit: A quick search showed that the 520 launched for £99.99 on the street, This is going to be going at £79.99. Throw in the whole £20 if you buy a locked version with PAYG time, and it may well be available for launch at £59.99, that could well mean sub £50 after the holidays. The only barrier that 530 is breaking is how cheaply can you make a smartphone that is still good, and not a feature phone.