News - Windows 9 to offer no middle ground: Desktop or Start Screen

[TheAnimus]

Windows RT users will face the complete removal of the desktop interface currently available on their devices.

NOOOOOO

FUDGE.

Seriously fudge, fudge, fudge.

I've gotten so used to my setup, using the RT tablet as a "Outlook / Excel / Word" PC. I use a bluetooth unifying keyboard that lets me flick between PCs.... I use it on the desktop so heavily.... Gargh.

[tomthum]

Microsoft still hasn't learnt from past mistakes of forcing things on their customers

[CK_1985]

I agree with the consensus here that it makes sense for the desktop/MUI thing to be a user choice. However I can definitely see Microsoft deciding to lock it down completely.

Yes it would be annoying for 'power users' (horrible phrase I know) like us Hexites, but you should never under-estimate the ability of more casual users to accidentally change settings they don't understand and then have no idea how to change them back... MS may well be willing to upset the minority in order to avoid any chance of a Win8-esque backlash from people getting unwittingly 'stuck' with the MUI.

[scaryjim]

I was envisioning something similar to Android, whereby widgets and shortcuts sit side by side, with each having fixed dimensions (i.e. 3x2, 4x4).

Sounds nasty and messy and distracting to me - unless you run all your apps full screen, in which case they may as well just be MUI apps! Plus you'd have to minimize or move windows to access any of your widgets/shortcuts? Unless you used a shortcut key or button to show the desktop, but then we're right back to what you've already got on Win 8, which is a full-screen start menu with both widgets and shortcuts. I don't see how having app windows overlaying the start screen could ever be desirable....

AFAICT Windows 9 seems to be getting the balance right so far. IF it tries to force a paradigm on you based on hardware detection that would be a bad thing, but so far we have a single rumour that MS might be considering that. I'm not going to berate them unless it become apparent that an unchangeable context is forced on the user. In the mean time, I've got a whole box of Maldon here....

[cptwhite_uk]

Microsoft is becoming increasingly irrelevant, and that future projection doesn't look set to change with Windows 9.

We have to understand we're the old guard - people who grew up with a desktop environment. It's home to most of us, but I think in future it won't be the guaranteed default set-up for desktop PC use. I think there will be a place for it for a long time to come, but it's de-facto status as 'the only way' for a desktop PC will diminish.

I'm pro-Windows 7. If Window's 9 can't give me a similar experience with optional touch screen optimised features, Microsoft will lose my business for another generation, until it becomes untenable and I'm forced to upgrade.

The UI needs to be tailored to the device you're using, so I can understand the need to differentiate. But removing consumer choice is never going to be a good thing.

What I'm more surprised / disappointed about is how polar opposite the Metro / Desktop environments are, and how poorly (imho) Microsoft has tried to develop a solution that can work in all circumstances. Why can't they develop a unified interface with elements that enable / disable (user controlled) to tailor the experience for optimised use on a per-device basis? This would be less alienating and a smother transition for desktop users into a new working environment.

The path they're currently moving towards (based purely on speculation), seems to fall far short of the potential for a beautiful universal UI that could be tailored to all devices.

[BrandonP]

Smart decision...

[crossy]

Yes it would be annoying for 'power users' (horrible phrase I know) like us Hexites, but you should never under-estimate the ability of more casual users to accidentally change settings they don't understand and then have no idea how to change them back... MS may well be willing to upset the minority in order to avoid any chance of a Win8-esque backlash from people getting unwittingly 'stuck' with the MUI.

Hmm, off the top of my head, what's wrong of going Control_Panel -> Desktop -> Select_User_Interface. And I'd be more worried about MUI-obsessed teenies from inadvertently getting stuck in Classic. I can just hear the comments now ... "what, like I've gotta like ... read s**t to get to my 'book posts? OMG, this is like being at school"

AFAICT Windows 9 seems to be getting the balance right so far. IF it tries to force a paradigm on you based on hardware detection that would be a bad thing, but so far we have a single rumour that MS might be considering that. I'm not going to berate them unless it become apparent that an unchangeable context is forced on the user.

Agreed with this, although the same argument applies (presumably) as does to the infamous StartMenu. That is, someone 3rd party will come up with some tool that lets you override the hardware detection.

Wouldn't hardware profiles be a way to get around this? So the user gets MUI on tablets and Classic on non-touch devices by default, but offer a Control Panel option to let a user - with appropriate dire warnings - override as they see fit. So if you want MUI on all devices (and I can see reasons why this would be the case) then pop into the "non-touch" profile and click the option to "Use Modern UI in this profile".

And of course at this point, aidanjt or one of the other Linux fans will probably point out that Linux users have been able to select their UI, or even dispense with it and go command line, for years.

[loftie]

This article is terribly misleading, as is the 'source' blog. From the 'sources' comments:

The device cut-off point is still unclear. My idea however is that tablets that can run Win32 apps will have the desktop with the Start Menu in full-screen mode (and come up by default)

And

The Start Menu can act like the Start Screen for full-blown tablets that can run Win32 applications. Microsoft aren't stupid, they aren't going to remove all the touch-based features for devices which are non-ARM, don't worry.

I believe you'll be able to make it so the Start Screen opens by default too, meaning it'll be 'very' similar to the current Windows 8.1 experience.

So basically, he doesn't know. If he knew he wouldn't be saying things such as "I believe" he'd say "this is how it's going to be". The rumours I've been seeing is that anything RT will be locked to the MUI, which makes sense because people are apparently too confused by the Desktop MUI switch - instead of just hiding the Desktop shortcut and all Desktop related stuff unless someone hunts for it.

[Corky34]

Yes it would be annoying for 'power users' (horrible phrase I know) like us Hexites, but you should never under-estimate the ability of more casual users to accidentally change settings they don't understand and then have no idea how to change them back... MS may well be willing to upset the minority in order to avoid any chance of a Win8-esque backlash from people getting unwittingly 'stuck' with the MUI.

Isn't that how humans learn best though ? You learn more from your mistakes and all that.
And who ever said computers should be easy, expecting the whole world to dumb down just because some people CBA to learn means we just end up with a world designed for 5 year old's.

[SineWave]

Yeah, the new Windows 9 desktop looks absolutely amazing! http://www.imcn.me/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/gnome2-3.png I'm in love!

[Kovoet]

Went right past Vista and might be going right past 8 as well

[Spud1]

Well this is a bit stupid

Windows 8 got rid of the start menu (yey!) and replaced it with something very different, that actually worked out so much better in day to day use.
Windows 8.1 added back in a pointless start button, but no biggie, I can cope with losing 2cm of space on my taskbar, its just annoying.
Windows 9 removes the MUI again, and puts back the start menu . Huge backwards step.

Whats up with choice? Let those who dont want to change stick with a start menu, and everyone else can continue to move on. Crazy move that just doesn't make sense especially now that hybrid devices are finally taking off at reasonable price points!

I think the reality is more like what Loftie has mentioned - we already know that MS want to remove the desktop from the RT line - they tried their best to "hide" it in 8.1 RT - so removing it from RT but leaving it switchable for everyone else sounds a lot more reasonable...

[scaryjim]

... Windows 9 removes the MUI again, ...

Where on earth are you getting that from? There's a RUMOUR that Microsoft might be planning to make the "old-fashioned" desktop the default for desktop computers running Windows 9. They certainly aren't planning on removing MUI, as this will be the default configuration for Windows 9 tablets. The only question is whether they'll be daft enough not to make the UI choice user configurable. Well, easily user configurable anyway - if there are two possible configurations it's always going to be possible to force the OS to detect your computer how you want it to, with enough fiddling...

[Spud1]

I was talking about just the desktop - as I got the impression from the article that for a standard PC, you are likely to be locked to the desktop and a start menu only, rather than having the full MUI as we do right now. I'm sure with fiddling it will be easy to turn on, but thats not the point, it would effectively remove it for most users.

I do expect them to make it configurable though - when you look at the source article this all seems much more rumor than fact.

[scaryjim]

I was talking about just the desktop - as I got the impression from the article that for a standard PC, you are likely to be locked to the desktop and a start menu only, rather than having the full MUI as we do right now.

There's - again - a rumour (as you've noted) that Microsoft might be considering that. Although the rumour also seems to suggest that the start menu could still be maximized to full screen, and personally I'd call a full screen Start Menu a Start Screen (but maybe that's just me playing with semantics!). The only thing you'd possibly lose is full-screen MUI apps - MUI apps in desktop windows is pretty much a confirmed feature of Win 9, and this rumour doesn't seem to give any information either way on whether desktop users could still enjoy full-screen MUI apps or might be restricted to windowed MUI apps.

Either way, it's clear that MUI will still be embedded in the OS, which means that however hard MS try to restrict it someone will find a way to configure it. And let's be honest, the vast majority of users will just accept whatever MS tell them is the right way to use their computer and learn how to live with it. It'd definitely be retrograde, but then MUI received a massive backlash from most people, so they've dropped themselves in a bit of a no-win situation...