Features - Roy Taylor: AMD Radeon GPUs remain unsurpassed

[Kecman]

If I buy an R9 290, I would have to buy a new PSU. That's a good enough reason for me to buy a GTX 970 for which I don't need that and which is also cheaper and faster. And I didn't mention the quietness and overclocking capabilities...

[kalniel]

Excellent questions, Hexus. And the response/style is pretty much what I expect and is perfectly normal for this kind of thing.

[Spreadie]

I want to see a strong AMD competing heavily with Nvidia, and I'd expect an AMD exec to be pro-AMD, but this muppet is off the scale.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

"I don’t see that efficiency making a huge impact on the end product. NVIDIA is charging a very hefty premium on a small performance uplift from their previous generation"

At that point I just quit reading, he's bending the truth beyond it's limits. We all know Nvidia is charging VERY reasonably for the GTX970, with performance improvements and much reduced power requirement. AMD have nothing to counter the performance per watt, and can only match performance per £££ at present.

Way to play down the massive performance per watt improvements, and cherry pick the metrics that best suit your PR spin...

Except he is somewhat right - the GTX970 is not a massive performance bump over GTX780 and R9 290 cards which could be had for under £300 for a year or so before the GTX970 came out. OFC,Nvidia will overhype the power consumption improvements and when Fermi was around we saw Nvidia underhyping the power consumption advantage AMD had over Nvidia and saying how their tessellation was 10000X better than what AMD had and all that PR stuff.

See how often AMD is three to six months ahead of Nvidia moving to new process nodes with performance and power consumption improvements and see how much less that is hyped up by people.

The chap was behind TWIMTBP for Nvidia FFS - Nvidia PR aggressive spin has been accepted by the community for yonks now. I don't see why AMD cannot do the same,unless you detest all PR spin.

You should see the comments Nvidia have made about AMD and Intel in the past - remember those cartoons they did mocking Intel a while back??

Yet,OFC Nvidia will always get a pass for it.

And I actually laughed when he mentioned TressFX hair. Hair is always at the forefront of my mind when buying a new gfx card.

So you laughed at PhysX then?? Funny how the first physics implementation from AMD actually worked on my GTX660 fine,and yet only after AMD did that did Nvidia start to make some of its own physics effects more cross vendor!

So are you laughing at all the "turf" simulation they have been bigging up:

http://techreport.com/news/27272/the...a-turf-effects

If I buy an R9 290, I would have to buy a new PSU. That's a good enough reason for me to buy a GTX 970 for which I don't need that and which is also cheaper and faster. And I didn't mention the quietness and overclocking capabilities...

You mean like the people running R9 290 cards off 450W PSUs?? One of our own Hexus members here actually is doing so. Or Valve running a Geforce Titan off a 450W SFX PSU??

Both GTX780 and R9 290 cards are cheaper BTW.

I want to see a strong AMD competing heavily with Nvidia, and I'd expect an AMD exec to be pro-AMD, but this muppet is off the scale.

He was the key chap behind TWIMTBP for Nvidia and was at Nvidia for 10 years:

"Vice President of Telco Relations
NVIDIA"

"Vice President Content Relations. CTO for the PCGA (PC Gaming Alliance).
NVIDIA"

"Vice President GPU Sales
NVIDIA"

"Vice President of EMEA
NVIDIA"

I am sure when he was doing EXACTLY the same thing for Nvidia,there was less criticism,right?

[edzieba]

If I buy an R9 290, I would have to buy a new PSU. That's a good enough reason for me to buy a GTX 970 for which I don't need that and which is also cheaper and faster. And I didn't mention the quietness and overclocking capabilities...

You mean like the people running R9 290 cards off 450W PSUs?? One of our own Hexus members here actually is doing so. Or Valve running a Geforce Titan off a 450W SFX PSU??

Try 300w, a common SFX PSU for those who didn't want the screaming 450W Silverstone. The choice is either:
- Buy a card that fits within the 300w power budget (the 970 and 980 both do)
- Buy the 600w SFX PSU (£100) and a GPU that performs about the same. Unless that GPU is more than £100 cheaper, the 970 and 980 (see this DC load test) come out on top.

The real worry for AMD is that the 290x is already hitting up against the 300w PCI-E power limit. They can't just clock things up and release a hotter, faster card, they need a whole architecture refresh. Nvidia can just release a 980ti by allowing a higher TDP, after waiting a while for yealds to improve. That's a heck of an advantage in cost-of-manufacture, so there's a good chance Nvidia can match or beat AMD's next gen in performance/£. AMD have thrived in the value sector rather than performance,, so having Nvidia eat into that would be very much Not Good for continued healthy competition.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

If I buy an R9 290, I would have to buy a new PSU. That's a good enough reason for me to buy a GTX 970 for which I don't need that and which is also cheaper and faster. And I didn't mention the quietness and overclocking capabilities...

I want to see a strong AMD competing heavily with Nvidia, and I'd expect an AMD exec to be pro-AMD, but this muppet is off the scale.

Try 300w, a common SFX PSU for those who didn't want the screaming 450W Silverstone. The choice is either:
- Buy a card that fits within the 300w power budget (the 970 and 980 both do)
- Buy the 600w SFX PSU (£100) and a GPU that performs about the same. Unless that GPU is more than £100 cheaper, the 970 and 980 (see this DC load test) come out on top.

The real worry for AMD is that the 290x is already hitting up against the 300w PCI-E power limit. They can't just clock things up and release a hotter, faster card, they need a whole architecture refresh. Nvidia can just release a 980ti by allowing a higher TDP, after waiting a while for yealds to improve. That's a heck of an advantage in cost-of-manufacture, so there's a good chance Nvidia can match or beat AMD's next gen in performance/£. AMD have thrived in the value sector rather than performance,, so having Nvidia eat into that would be very much Not Good for continued healthy competition.

Except again peole are running these cards fine off 450W PSUs - there are users on OcUK and Hexus doing so. You want me to ask them to post in this thread??

Plus the GTX970 and GTX980 are more GTX670/GTX680/GTX770 class cards in terms of actual power consumption - the TDP bracket is wonky since they are supposed to be similar to my GTX660(!). Honestly read the TH review using their expensive power measurement equipment.

Plus the uarch refresh -do you even get that Kepler was refined Fermi with things like sw scheduling and Maxwell is further refined Kepler with more refined voltage and power controll mechanisms and more effective TDP containment.



That was a slide posted in the Anandtech review of AMD Beema at the end of April - its an overview of tech which AMD CPUs and GPUs will have.

Look at some of the stuff done in Maxwell and look at the slide. You might notice something.

The whole AMD is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED stuff is funny,since over the last 11 years of being an enthusiast I see these happen at several GPU launches.

I honestly will make a list spanning 11 years of GPU launches detailing how people on forums and in reviews have predicted AMD or Nvidia were screwed over the last 11 years.

People have very short memories - Nvidia was screwed with Fermi,AMD with the 2900Xt. See how those played out.

[DisturbedJim83]

Jesus, this can't be what qualifies as an interview.

They remain unsurpassed? They were passed in the last generation. Not to say AMD won't take the lead again but comments like 'It’s great to see good products from the other side finally' really don't come across very well.

And I actually laughed when he mentioned TressFX hair. Hair is always at the forefront of my mind when buying a new gfx card.

Tell me that a 980 which performs worse than my R9 290X with Mantle on and matches it in DX11 is worth a Additional £140 premium after they finally made a 4GB card? No didn't think so.We're done here your dismissed

[shaithis]

I am sure when he was doing EXACTLY the same thing for Nvidia,there was less criticism,right?

Did Hexus post a complete BS interview with him in the news section while he was working for nVidia? Because I don't remember one.......and tbh, the hyperbole in this article is incredible. By all means "tout your warez" but to just talk like he does is plain misleading:

Mantle, TrueAudio and Eyefinity give the best gaming experience? Oh really?
Mantle unlocking it's latent potential? All is does is reduce CPU load.
Implying the 900 series are essentially nVidias first decent cards....
Implying games like Civilization: Beyond Earth and Dragon Age: Inquisition run at top performance only on AMD graphics.
Citing the one internet source that reckons CF is better then SLI. SLI bridges "archaic".....erm, does anyone care if the bridge is there or not? Is that really going to make anyone with half a brain cell change their purchasing decision?
Talking about the new consoles like it's a good thing.....IMO I think the new console ports have been ruined due to (justifiably) heavy use of HSA, which we don't have on gaming PCs....making a lot of ports with streaming worlds terrible. Thanks for that AMD!

But you do get the free games, which you can buy for 5-10 quid due to people dumping the keys like crazy.

[HalloweenJack]

If I buy an R9 290, I would have to buy a new PSU. That's a good enough reason for me to buy a GTX 970 for which I don't need that and which is also cheaper and faster. And I didn't mention the quietness and overclocking capabilities...

you do realise theres all of 30ww difference between an R9 290 and a GTX 970 don't you? so if you need a new psu for one , you`ll need it for the other.

as for noise , again , theres a plethora of aftermarkets cooled cards from all IHV`s.

as for cost you do know I can buy an R9 290X from msi , right now (from scan and ocuk) , for the same money as a GTX 970? that's a faster and quiet card right there.

[shaithis]

Tell me that a 980 which performs worse than my R9 290X with Mantle on and matches it in DX11 is worth a Additional £140 premium after they finally made a 4GB card? No didn't think so.We're done here your dismissed

The only way that can happen is if you paired your shiny new gfx card with a very old cpu, causing a bottleneck that mantle works around for you. Most people don't have that issue, at least with high-end graphics cards, they buy a balanced system.......and come DX12, that point becomes moot as well.

nVidia cards are more expensive, you can't argue that. But the price can be justified for many people. I for one got sick of the noise of AMD cards in my front room gaming system, I got sick of the drivers messing with the LPCM output to my amp, I got miffed I couldn't enable Physx and I was also looking at having to buy 3rd party software to make stereoscopic work.

If your AMD card does everything you want and there is nothing to be gained from a nVidia card, then well done, you have the right card for YOU.
None of that detracts from the FUD the OP was pushing though.

[HalloweenJack]

DX 12 is at least a year away and another for DX12 games which can use whats on offer - mantle is here and now so your point is completely moot.

as for low end cpu - that was discounted by TPU and anand 6 months ago;

DA:I and BF:Hardlines will show again whats on offer right now.

a question , why didn't NV do the same thing with its own api? nvapi has been out for a long time!

[ricksavoie]

I don't mind this interview. I can see it for what it is. Unfortunately the AMD rep didn't give us any new or interesting data. For someone like me, the 780Ti is an amazing card but I'm not spending $500.00 or up on a card right now. I'll have to choose between the sub $300.00 AMD or Nvidia cards.

[zombie02]

I couldn't help but lol @ Civilization beyond earth mantle title.
My gtx 580 still gets 60+ fps with max settings, so I don't see why mantle would be helpfull.

[Dottorrent]

I don't mind this interview. I can see it for what it is. Unfortunately the AMD rep didn't give us any new or interesting data. For someone like me, the 780Ti is an amazing card but I'm not spending $500.00 or up on a card right now. I'll have to choose between the sub $300.00 AMD or Nvidia cards.

It will spoil the moment. We gotta wait till January to me amazed.

[shaithis]

a question , why didn't NV do the same thing with its own api? nvapi has been out for a long time!

Because nV didn't want to give millions of dollars to DICE to implement it which is how AMD got the ball rolling. nvAPI has been around much longer but there hasn't been much drive to implement it and with DX12 on the horizon, I don't see any more incentive going forward.

It's probably the one thing we have AMD to thank for which is ironic as their massive handout to DICE has ensured we will all get DX12 and Mantle will become obsolete soon.

[Agent]

DX 12 is at least a year away and another for DX12 games which can use whats on offer

Well DX12 could bring improvements to existing games, much like many other DX versions have done. There is a good chance DX12 could drop and you'll see higher FPS in past titles. Time will tell.

As for 2 years for DX12 titles? I think it'll be a bit sooner. Lots of people already have DX12 versions of UE4 and are developing with it. It requires very little in terms of changes for developers.

- mantle is here and now so your point is completely moot.

I fail to see how Shaithis points are moot because Mantle is out now? It's a perfectly valid point that is being made.

as for low end cpu - that was discounted by TPU and anand 6 months ago;

Not quite sure where you're going with this, but I think Shaithis is quite accurate in what he's saying. There is no way a 980 should be performing worse than a 290X in most situations - for the situation he has quoted, you'd need a pretty specific setup for it to be a problem. He's pointing out one of the situations where that could be the case - if anything, that's being more than fair by trying to show how it could have happened. It's all well and good showing Mantle , but that's only of use if your titles support it (and Mantle offers an advantage) and its bug free. It's not like BF didn't have major issues with Mantle for a while...

DA:I and BF:Hardlines will show again whats on offer right now.

Which is awesome - but if you don't play them? If you're keeping a GPU for a while, new games will be released too. DX / OpenGL support is a given. Mantle is not.

a question , why didn't NV do the same thing with its own api? nvapi has been out for a long time!

Because nvapi is an entirely different thing (it's a driver interface framework). It's not something to use for rendering really. Mantle is.
NvAPI has been used in games btw, just not in the way you're thinking.