Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

[KendrickDM]

@ Taskmaster: If you had bought as said the Alpha it would have set you back $150 (About £100 at release), the premium Beta $150 (About £93 at release) and the Gamma early access £30 (only for the next 2 weeks). The Alpha package closed on the 15th November which should have ended the single player mode - the one which was compatable with the kickstarter pledge there being no requirement to syncronise with the server.

Next as I said you seem to have a real vested interest in promoting the game to the extent of Trolling the boards, I am not interested in you and who and what you say you are, I simply do not believe you, most of what you say is contrary to what Frontier Developments posts on its own newsletters extracts from which I have posted on other forums in Hexus including the Kickstarter pledges.

[Flibb]

Kendrick you seem to have missed the £50 standard beta access from your list, which as Taskmster mentioned includes the full game. I believe standard beta access was open in July. As to your talk of trolling, well thats a bit rich.

As to the talk of single player, well yes its there, it just requires internet access. And I didnt notice too many complaining about how solo play works during the single player alpha and beta.

[Splash]

@ Taskmaster: If you had bought as said the Alpha it would have set you back $150 (About £100 at release), the premium Beta $150 (About £93 at release) and the Gamma early access £30 (only for the next 2 weeks). The Alpha package closed on the 15th November which should have ended the single player mode - the one which was compatable with the kickstarter pledge there being no requirement to syncronise with the server.

Next as I said you seem to have a real vested interest in promoting the game to the extent of Trolling the boards, I am not interested in you and who and what you say you are, I simply do not believe you, most of what you say is contrary to what Frontier Developments posts on its own newsletters extrtacts from which I have posted on other forums in Hexus including the Kickstarter pledges.

I've played the single player in beta. I paid £100 to gain access to premium beta in the first round, though there was the option to go in at PB2 for £50. Alpha access through the Kickstarter was priced at £200.

In order to login to the game all the way through the phase I've had access to (as well as from what I understand in the very beginning of beta) you've had to login to a launcher and this required that you authenticate against Frontier's servers - quite how much connectivity to their servers beyond that point I can't comment but there has definitely been a single player mode available.

I've not touched Gamma as yet (I'm trying to save myself for a proper discovery at the point of gold release, plus I'm too busy with work at the moment) so I can't comment on that.


As for trolling: without getting into it too much I don't see why you'd think Ttaskmaster would be doing so. They're clearly passionate about the game, and seem to be enjoying the game time they're getting. They happen to not be too fussed about the loss of the offline game but I don't see anything in their posts that suggests trolling. They *definitely* disagree with your viewpoint, but discussion and differing viewpoints are what make forums interesting places to be.

Other than that: I understand that you're frustrated by the loss of the offline game, but this is not (as you have stated) the loss of the single player game. You've also stated that those who have apid for beta will have to pay extra to access the game on release, which is also untrue. Kickstarter rewards are still listed on the site at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...lite-dangerous if you'd like to check them out.


As a matter of interest what level have you backed the game at, and how has your testing experience been so far?

[KendrickDM]

Kendrick you seem to have missed the £50 standard beta access from your list, which as Taskmster mentioned includes the full game. I believe standard beta access was open in July. As to your talk of trolling, well thats a bit rich.

As to the talk of single player, well yes its there, it just requires internet access. And I didnt notice too many complaining about how solo play works during the single player alpha and beta.

Fibb that all depends upon the nature of your internet access, your expectations and what was promised on kickstarter, again this was covered before in the prior forum posts, here and on the other Elite Dangerous boards.

Thank You.

[KendrickDM]

@ Splash: It may come back with demand at some point next year, but not yet, at which point I would be a late adopter if there is an offline Blu Ray PS4 version. However I am waiting to see if it all goes belly up first, and quite a few MMO games have done that.

I would not back Braben on kickstarter unless Ian Bell came back on the team, I was an early adopter of Frontier and First Encounters and suffered badly with the broken gameplay. Ian Bell was the person who made Elite truley happen, not Braben who had the business head, every Jobs needs a Woz.

[Splash]

@KendrickDM so your comments about what is and isn't in alpha/beta/gamma aren't actually based on your own experiences?

As for what was "promised" on the Kickstarter: I think you and I may have different interpretations as the what a promise vs an intention is, and also what Kickstarter is there to do. That said: if you've paid no money so far I'm struggling to see why you're so clearly angry about this.

[KendrickDM]

@ Splash: I am not angry in any way, this is all entirely within expectations of a kickstarter project and if there was any real chance in 1998 of a working Elite Game turning up out of this process there would have been backers from the city, there has been for every other game produced in the UK since the age of Spectrum.

No-one will be more happy to see a finished product after 14 years of planning however it would have been the kickstarters driving the development not Braben, which is why I will be expecting the return of the single player offline mode, my hat is off to them, their belief, commitment, money and their patience.

However going back on pledges given is simply not cricket.

[HalloweenJack]

Update! The above is the intended single player experience. However it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server. You won't get the features of the evolving galaxy (although we will investigate minimising those differences) and you probably won't be able to sync between server and non-server (again we'll investigate).

taken from:


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ject_faq_43734

braben himself , in the kickstarter campaign said you do not need to connect to play the single player game.

[KendrickDM]

taken from:


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ject_faq_43734

braben himself , in the kickstarter campaign said you do not need to connect to play the single player game.

Absolutely - Hence the outcry and my dissapointment, however I was not a kickstarter backer - I bought all the merchandise to support the game- I really missed the original commander cap !

[Flibb]

Also from the kisckstarter

Stating the obvious, all projects, whether building a bridge, making a film, studying for an exam or whatever, carry risk. Projects can run out of time or money, people can leave, assumptions that were made at the start may prove to be mistaken, or the results may simply not be as good as expected. Games development is no different.


So you may not get what you wanted, there are risks.

[KendrickDM]

Also from the kisckstarter

Stating the obvious, all projects, whether building a bridge, making a film, studying for an exam or whatever, carry risk. Projects can run out of time or money, people can leave, assumptions that were made at the start may prove to be mistaken, or the results may simply not be as good as expected. Games development is no different.


So you may not get what you wanted, there are risks.

Interesting, but not on the FAQ (https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq...ics?ref=footer)
Rules (https://www.kickstarter.com/rules?ref=footer)
Trust and safety (https://www.kickstarter.com/trust?ref=footer)

Probably an expert opinion somewhere on site.

[Saracen]

Interesting, but not on the FAQ (https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq...ics?ref=footer)
Rules (https://www.kickstarter.com/rules?ref=footer)
Trust and safety (https://www.kickstarter.com/trust?ref=footer)

Probably an expert opinion somewhere on site.

Erm .... the Rules you quote specify ...

When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward. Their fundamental obligation to backers is to finish all the work that was promised. Once a creator has done so, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to their backers. At the same time, backers must understand that Kickstarter is not a store. When you back a project, you’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised. If a creator is absolutely unable to complete the project and fulfill rewards, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to a satisfying conclusion for their backer

Seem rather like the bit in bold covers what happened, and the expectations when it does.

Kickstarter do stress, repeatedly, that backing any project carries risks, and the backer must assess them.

Personally, the decision to pull SP-offline mode disappoints me, but I'd take it as part of the risk, which in part is why I didn't back it.

[jimbouk]

Apparently I'm now entitled to Elite: Dangerous Gamma Access! I thought I just backed it at the level to get the finished game? <cynic>Do you think they're trying to get people to play so fewer people can ask for refunds?</cynic>

[KendrickDM]

Erm .... the Rules you quote specify ...Seem rather like the bit in bold covers what happened, and the expectations when it does.

Kickstarter do stress, repeatedly, that backing any project carries risks, and the backer must assess them.

Personally, the decision to pull SP-offline mode disappoints me, but I'd take it as part of the risk, which in part is why I didn't back it.

Kickstarter states that of all its projects only 44% are entirely 100% sucessfull the majority of all continue on to completion anyway, however balancing that out those that use its services have to repay the backers of projects that fail to deliver on pledges. The difference in failing to deliver on this particular pledge is simply that the game will cease to function the moment Frontier Developments pulls the plug and that is the be all and end all, which nobody in fact signed up too - I only bought the Tshirt, cap badge etc, so I have got tangible physical goods.

If in fact a version of the original elite had been re-launched for multi platforms including playstation I would still have bought merchandise, i.e. for every thing bought you get a free download of Elite 2 reloaded for playstation/pc. Currently on site that is on offer in the shopping cart

The only dissapointment for me is that the single player offline option may turn up several years hence in a platinum release version, if Frontier Developments is still going but I will still have the Teeshirt.

[Ttaskmaster]

Well, David Braben said
Maybe I'm misreading it, but that sounds like "no offline single-player mode" to me.

As I see it - Correct, FD will NOT be doing an offline mode.
It remains something that (in their opinion) is possible to do, but FD themselves won't be doing it any time soon.

As to what was "promused", dunno, but it certainly felt implied, at the least, to me.

They said they would give it a darn good go. If that is a legal implication that it WILL be delivered then FD are utterly screwed... But as is, they only said they would *try* to make it happen.

I think a lot of the confusion has come from the differences between Multi-Player, Solo Play and Offline Play. The last two were both often referred to as Single Player, with various ideas of what that might be.
Single Player generally refers to the Online Solo.

braben himself , in the kickstarter campaign said you do not need to connect to play the single player game.

"Would not", not "Will not".
He's speaking about the hypothetical future, not the present.
At no point has he said "There IS" or "There WILL be" an offline mode - He has only ever said they were trying to implement one into the online one they already have.

THAT is the key point I believe people are missing or misunderstanding.

@ Taskmaster: If you had bought as said the Alpha it would have set you back $150 (About £100 at release), the premium Beta $150 (About £93 at release) and the Gamma early access £30 (only for the next 2 weeks).

I have seen/played earlier versions but, as mentioned, I bought the basic Beta package which was priced at £50.
It's even still shown, right here - Look: Fifty Pounds!!
https://store.elitedangerous.com/eli...rous-beta.html

If you want, I'll even give you my ED account login and you can go look for yourself, to see EXACTLY what I bought.
If you still don't believe that, as I assume you won't, then it's your problem.

Next as I said you seem to have a real vested interest in promoting the game to the extent of Trolling the boards, I am not interested in you and who and what you say you are, I simply do not believe you, most of what you say is contrary to what Frontier Developments posts on its own newsletters extracts from which I have posted on other forums in Hexus including the Kickstarter pledges.

That's just your opinion...
In my opinion, you simply haven't fully understood what was written in the first place, which is why you find my postings contrary to your interpretation.

Apparently I'm not entitled to Elite: Dangerous Gamma Access! I thought I just backed it at the level to get the finished game? <cynic>Do you think they're trying to get people to play so fewer people can ask for refunds?</cynic>

You're NOT entitled?
I guess from the rest of the post, you meant 'now entitled'?
And yes, I do think they're trying to get people to play - Either so they can deny refunds, or so people will play and realise it's pretty good nonetheless.

If you were in their shoes, wouldn't you try something to mitigate your losses?

[KendrickDM]

As I see it - Correct, FD will NOT be doing an offline mode.
It remains something that (in their opinion) is possible to do, but FD themselves won't be doing it any time soon.


They said they would give it a darn good go. If that is a legal implication that it WILL be delivered then FD are utterly screwed... But as is, they only said they would *try* to make it happen.

I think a lot of the confusion has come from the differences between Multi-Player, Solo Play and Offline Play. The last two were both often referred to as Single Player, with various ideas of what that might be.
Single Player generally refers to the Online Solo.


"Would not", not "Will not".
He's speaking about the hypothetical future, not the present.
At no point has he said "There IS" or "There WILL be" an offline mode - He has only ever said they were trying to implement one into the online one they already have.

THAT is the key point I believe people are missing or misunderstanding.


I have seen/played earlier versions but, as mentioned, I bought the basic Beta package which was priced at £50.
It's even still shown, right here - Look: Fifty Pounds!!
https://store.elitedangerous.com/eli...rous-beta.html

If you want, I'll even give you my ED account login and you can go look for yourself, to see EXACTLY what I bought.
If you still don't believe that, as I assume you won't, then it's your problem.


That's just your opinion...
In my opinion, you simply haven't fully understood what was written in the first place, which is why you find my postings contrary to your interpretation.


You're NOT entitled?
I guess from the rest of the post, you meant 'now entitled'?
And yes, I do think they're trying to get people to play - Either so they can deny refunds, or so people will play and realise it's pretty good nonetheless.

If you were in their shoes, wouldn't you try something to mitigate your losses?

Constant multiple harsh exceptions to multiple postings = Troll.