Broadband firms protest against BT's monopoly position

[HEXUS]

A separate report today says that Telefonica is in talks to sell O2 to BT.

Read more.

[shaithis]

Doesn't this happen every year?

TBH, I'd be happy if they just stopped BT forcing ridiculously over-priced landlines on us that we don't even use.

Also, do BT have a monopoly on installing trunking? It seems a tad odd that they feel entitled to use the stuff BT has installed, rather then installing their own........or if that was government subsidised then someone needs to take the fall for not putting a proviso in place to stop BT blocking others from using infrastructure paid for (or subsidised) by tax-payer money.

[crossy]

TBH, I'd be happy if they just stopped BT forcing ridiculously over-priced landlines on us that we don't even use.

But don't all the companies do this? To be honest the only use that the fixed line that Virgin "forced" me into having is to receive those spam calls. And, at the moment, quite a lot of those vocal malware "we are working with the windows, and your computer has a problem" calls.

Also, do BT have a monopoly on installing trunking? It seems a tad odd that they feel entitled to use the stuff BT has installed, rather then installing their own........or if that was government subsidised then someone needs to take the fall for not putting a proviso in place to stop BT blocking others from using infrastructure paid for (or subsidised) by tax-payer money.

I was pretty sure that Virgin installs their own routing and boxes, etc, (mainly because of the faults in our local VM box). If the "national" infrastructure hasn't been nationalised then maybe there's strong arguments for doing so ... strategic resource, encouragement of competition, etc.

However, I'm cynical enough to think that this trade body's press release was more about wailing on Ofcom to leave them to squeeze more money for nowt out of the consumers, and - in the case of Sky and TalkTalk - wanting to gain zero cost access to BT's lovely wires.

The Telefonica deal doesn't surprise me, others have commented that O2 push seems to have been a little lacklustre of late - almost as if they were waiting for something. Nostalgia hit though, since my first mobile was a Motorola analog one on Cellnet ... or as it was called "BT/Cellnet", heck I even bought it from the local BT shop!

[shaithis]

But don't all the companies do this?

All but Virgin, I assumed it was because BT will not allow broadband lines without a full-fat landline subscription. I can't even see anyway to get one of those old "incoming calls only" lines or the cheaper tarrif with huge call costs (being forced to pay £17/month for a line I NEVER use is a complete insult, especially when broadband is now a human right....)

I was pretty sure that Virgin installs their own routing and boxes, etc,

Virgin bought some old infrastructure years ago (rediffusion?) and revamped it, hence they have their own (mostly)

[abaxas]

All but Virgin, I assumed it was because BT will not allow broadband lines without a full-fat landline subscription. I can't even see anyway to get one of those old "incoming calls only" lines or the cheaper tarrif with huge call costs (being forced to pay £17/month for a line I NEVER use is a complete insult, especially when broadband is now a human right....)


Virgin bought some old infrastructure years ago (rediffusion?) and revamped it, hence they have their own (mostly)

I'm sure they could do a landline that only worked with adsl. However, it'd probably cost the same as than one that did! The infrastructure costs would be the same but it might cost them 50p a quarter to send you a bill!

[DBarber]

the only answer to this is to split bt from openreach,
so far all companies have access to the copperwires between xchange and home but at "cost" rate, as long as profits are shuffled around to make it look like the local lines are costing more to run than they actually are bt will always win at the cost of the customers.

[shaithis]

I'm sure they could do a landline that only worked with adsl. However, it'd probably cost the same as than one that did! The infrastructure costs would be the same but it might cost them 50p a quarter to send you a bill!

But I don't want a PSTN line, I only want a broadband line. I fail to see why the 2 are linked (other then the obvious money grabbing barstewards reason!)

[abaxas]

All plugs into the same port (simplification) hence your telephone number/line is almost free.

Also lots of advantages of having this near free service... try using your mobile 30min/hour into a power cut..

[zaph0d]

If they gave you access to a landline for free suddenly your Broadband subscription would jump up £15-18 for "Increased Infrastructure & Administration Costs"

[LSG501]

Also, do BT have a monopoly on installing trunking? It seems a tad odd that they feel entitled to use the stuff BT has installed, rather then installing their own........or if that was government subsidised then someone needs to take the fall for not putting a proviso in place to stop BT blocking others from using infrastructure paid for (or subsidised) by tax-payer money.

I kind of remember reading that part of our tv licence that was originally for the freeview switchover was being used for 'fibre upgrades'... now I could be wrong on this but I'm sure I read it somewhere.

I have to say I feel the same on the cost of line rental... it's gone up again recently, as I understand it we now get less free stuff like 1571 (can't say I used it much) as thats now an extra charge in most cases. We're pretty much screwed where I live because I have the choice of BT or talk talk... yeah tough choice lol

Yet to be perfectly blunt, the actual telephone service has not really changed in the last 50 years other than add a few extra numbers to dialing codes, add extra capacity once in a while and change the numbers which relate to premium calls to confuse everyone...it's still run on copper wire which hasn't really been maintained.

It's all very well bt saying its for the 'expensive' fibre expansion etc but honestly they could have spread the cost over the last 10 years, it was pretty obvious where the internet was going in terms of user requirements etc. To me it seems like the many are benefiting the few because the only places I keep seeing getting anything out of BT seems to be London.

[abaxas]

Is fibre that important to the majority of users? To most people it's just an additional ugly box with flashy lights.

[crossy]

Is fibre that important to the majority of users? To most people it's just an additional ugly box with flashy lights.

Brave man, saying that on a "tech" site - I can just about hear the tar being boiled and chickens plucked in your "honour" as I type this. Be thankful it's Hexus, on other sites they'd be buying you a "hemp necktie" and a pine overcoat.

POTS v's fibre - no contest. I sit here on Virgin at a quoted 152Mb/s, whereas my father (with BT) is gifted a last-decade-like 2Mb/s. And even if you go on actual (rather than finger-in-the-air-and-add-a-zero marketing speak) speeds that's still like ~1Mb/s v's 70+. I don't understand (or particularly want to) the technical in's and out's why this is the case. Maybe that's why I'm less than impressed with BT's "21CN" rollout, at least the pace of it.

[shaithis]

Is fibre that important to the majority of users? To most people it's just an additional ugly box with flashy lights.

Could not go back. If I move property it has to be FTTC or FTTP enabled.

[abaxas]

Give me 2 meg with proper support and someone who will fix the problems over 80meg, we might fix it in 2 weeks.

It all depends if you actually rely on it or not.

[LSG501]

Is fibre that important to the majority of users? To most people it's just an additional ugly box with flashy lights.

depends on the usage pattern surely...
Personally I work from home often working with large files, I'd prefer more upload speed and the only way I can get that is fibre. Download isn't that much of an issue for me at the moment but if I was to start watching more online media like netflix etc then ideally I'd want more download speed.

Also iirc fibre brings lower pings so that in itself is good for gamers.

If on the other hand you literally just check your email and browse the web then no.

[jim]

All but Virgin, I assumed it was because BT will not allow broadband lines without a full-fat landline subscription. I can't even see anyway to get one of those old "incoming calls only" lines or the cheaper tarrif with huge call costs (being forced to pay £17/month for a line I NEVER use is a complete insult, especially when broadband is now a human right....)


Virgin bought some old infrastructure years ago (rediffusion?) and revamped it, hence they have their own (mostly)

Virgin don't really do landline free connections anyway.

When I last looked into it, it was invariably cheaper to have the "phoneline", even if you never plugged a phone into it.