Microsoft to unveil new plans to monetise Windows early 2015

[theleader]

At some stage "Stand & Deliver" or you will never see your data again!

I believe some malware does that! "Ransomware"!

[Saracen]

Premium services are just that - I made it pretty clear that I was speaking about stuff which is "nice to have", so things like Media Player etc. Actually I'd be pretty happy if IE was made a premium feature ... but that's mainly because I don't like it at all.

....

I'd be happy if they took IE out, too. And that's far from the only thing.

Or, at the least, made them user-install options, at least. That also applies to MS AV tools, MS Backup tools, MS Defraggers, and so on.

Windows includes a lot of stuff like this that may well be of interest to users without the time or inclination to find dedicated solutions IF they need that facility, but so often, what's built-in is merely a semi-castrated version of something else, which in some cases (like the Diskeeper defraagger) I use and already had the full-blown package.

I'd be far happier if MS kept to providing the OS and let me decide which tools and utilities I want. If these things were even options I could turn off in configuration before installing, even that would be okay. So I entirely agree on IE, etc. Haven't used it since before I first paid for a retail, boxed version of Netscape, 20 years or so ago.

But you did say, if I understood you properly, that you were "chilled" about some Pro services being on subscription, and that you might pay, depending on what they were. Fair enough, if you want to. My point was I'm not paying a subscription, either for Windows or Pro services, regardless of what they were. I'm not having an OS, or Pro services, if it means a monthly subscription. Period. If I can pay for a one-off licence fee, either I will or won't, depending on how I perceive value, but it's not value that determines my decision with a sub, it's the sub model itself.

...

For ADSL type broadband you're probably correct, but wireless broadband - if you're willing to accept the "downgrade" in speed - definitely can be got as PAYG. I've got a "Wireless Pointer" hub (supports up to 5 devices) from T-Mobile. Oh, and given the availability of things like LibreOffice I wouldn't regard Office (note the capitalization) as an essential, so if that was Office365 then I'm okay with that - I'll go use Libre instead.

....

Well, I guess for mobile broadband, yeah. Though I've no idea what, if any, info you have to provide to activate it. But even doing that wouldn't much help me, as phone and TV services come in the same package, so I'd still have a monthly fee to pay. It is the ONLY regular monthly deduction I have. At the moment. I'm looking at dumping even that.

As for Libre, agreed If MS go subscription for Windows, I go Ubuntu. Well, go more Ubuntu. I will retain some existing, offline, Windows machines on existing licences but won't be buying ANY Windows in future, if it means going sub-based. Ditto Office. I already have Libre on my Ubuntu system, and it'll do everything I need of an Office suite .... which is pretty basic functions, in my case. No Office 365 for me, either.

[GuidoLS]

It's simple. They want us to pay "extra" for things already bundled with windows, such as media player, system tools, DVD maker, games etc......

Isn't this what the wanna-be overlords from the EU want anyway? Everything separate so you have more 'options'? With a drop down menu? People need to very seriously have a care what they wish for - sometimes, they just may get it, and find it isn't in the pretty package they wanted, nor does it behave as offered.

[GuidoLS]

I bought a couple of full win7 licenses when they came out. So glad I did now. Somewhere I have a disc of ubuntu that I'd always intended to play with on an old machine. Since my relly decided he didn't want the old P4 I've had this box sat in the lounge gathering dust. Time to see how I fair with ubuntu. I sense a few help request threads coming from me in the near future

Depending on age and video, you might want to consider Mint, sans Cinnamon, or LXLE, as alternatives. Ubuntu is pretty much the Windows of the Linux world (full of stuff you don't need, requiring far more horsepower than necessary). On new installs (turning a lot of people on to Linux that are 'upgrading', still, from XP), I prefer Mint if the machine can handle it, LXLE if it's borderline, or Zorin if the person is a complete klutz and can't live without 'WindowsXP'.

[spacein_vader]

I'd be happy if they took IE out, too. And that's far from the only thing.

Or, at the least, made them user-install options, at least. That also applies to MS AV tools, MS Backup tools, MS Defraggers, and so on.

Windows includes a lot of stuff like this that may well be of interest to users without the time or inclination to find dedicated solutions IF they need that facility, but so often, what's built-in is merely a semi-castrated version of something else, which in some cases (like the Diskeeper defraagger) I use and already had the full-blown package.

I'd be far happier if MS kept to providing the OS and let me decide which tools and utilities I want. If these things were even options I could turn off in configuration before installing, even that would be okay. So I entirely agree on IE, etc. Haven't used it since before I first paid for a retail, boxed version of Netscape, 20 years or so ago.

I guess it comes down to what tools and utilities would you class as being part of the OS? If they took Windows Explorer out that would remove some very basic functionality that I think most people would expect to be built in. As for things like defrag, backup etc I agree they could be seperate.
The only thing that I think is a separate function but should be retained anyway is a basic firewall/antivirus like Defender. Yes it's basic and there are better options out there but it stops there from being millions of totally unprotected PCs out there from users who don't know better. Maybe you should be allowed to choose not to have it as part of the install process but it should give you a VERY clear warning that if you don't have your own 3rd party solution you are at serious risk.

[Saracen]

I guess it comes down to what tools and utilities would you class as being part of the OS? If they took Windows Explorer out that would remove some very basic functionality that I think most people would expect to be built in. As for things like defrag, backup etc I agree they could be seperate.
The only thing that I think is a separate function but should be retained anyway is a basic firewall/antivirus like Defender. Yes it's basic and there are better options out there but it stops there from being millions of totally unprotected PCs out there from users who don't know better. Maybe you should be allowed to choose not to have it as part of the install process but it should give you a VERY clear warning that if you don't have your own 3rd party solution you are at serious risk.

Agreed. Windows Explorer, or at least some form of windowing file manager is necessary. Agreed on warnings re: firewall, and perhaps AV too. By all means include them, and other tools like those I mentioned as defaults, for those too inexperienced to realise they can, and perhaps should, pick better tools.

Including these does avoid some risk. But it also includes some risk. Anyone here think MS default firewall or AV tools are the best available, even among free options? No, thought not. But the very people that might rely on these defaults because they're included are also the very people that might conclude there's no advantage to switching to better third-party tools. An experienced use might decide Windows AV and firewall are good enough for their needs, and if they decide that from a position of knowledge, fine. But I come across a lot of inexperienced users that assume (naively, IMHO) that because they're MS tools, they're either the best, or at least, perfectly adequate. I would disagree with that. But because they're installed by default, a lot of inexperienced users just rely on them without considering alternatives .... sometimes to their cost.

As an experienced user, all I'd really like is the option to deselect all this stuff from a default install, so I can install my own choice of tools .... like Firefox, Comodo, Avast or Kaspersky, and so on through encryption services, defragger, desktop search, file compressors, PDF engine, and so on.

And for an absolute certainty, I REALLY object to all the trialware rubbish that gets pre-loaded, for instance by laptop manufacturers. Though that isn't really a Windows or MS issue, except perhaps for Office trials. Still. that's a digression to far.

[Montysaurus]

Well they shot themselves in the foot with W8, now they are really going for the headshot with this one! They may fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but they can't fool all of the people all of the time! If Microsoft introduce subscription based OS with everything on their servers (they like to call it the cloud but anyone with a brain knows its on their server farms) they will not be getting one penny from me!

[eiamhere69]

This will likely be similar to the cloud scam they have going with Xbone.

I suspect they will, over time offer cloud os updates (obviously already mentioned) whereby, your subscription gets you an updated cloud os, extending the life of the hardware due to the fact the cloud is magic and does all the processing cloud side.

A few years later it will leak, all that is cloud/server side is drm check to remove the crippling slowdown set in place to force said subscription paymen
Think current dlc scams, where you have already paid for dlc on disc, but must pay again to remove its restriction.

Sorry about any errors, I'm ironically typing this on a Windows table they're decent, and could keep them in the game with Linux making small gains with Android/Ios/tablets/mobiles etc dominating

[peterb]

Cloud computing, or thin client computing isn't a new idea, I went to a demo over 15 years ago, but it is only in the last few years with high speed internet that it has become possible for home/SOHO users.

Microsoft are playing catch up TP some extent. Google lead the way with online applications like Google docs, and Apple embraced cloud with iCloud, which with the latest incarnation of OSX and IOS enables a pretty seamless transition from one device to another, while maintaining the differentiation between a touchscreen/tablet environment and a desktop environment.


Personally, I'm moving away from Windows, a trend I started some years ago when I started exploring Linux. Windows 7 did lure me back for a while, but the faff over windows 8 and this trend has pushed me away. I built a hackintosh last year and also played with android on a tablet.

The experience with the hackintosh as lead me to buy an iMac, and also an iPad. The iPad and android OSs are comparable, i wouldn't say one is better than the other, the iPad perhaps feels a bit more polished, but the great strength is the integration between devices, enabled by iCloud for things like calendars, messaging and so on. My main document storage is a Linux based server.

Computing has become slightly less stressful. No more wondering about the merits of AMD or Intel, or which brand, make of graphics card, or driver issues. Just a computing platform that lets me get on with the job in hand.

I'm sure MS will achieve the same level of integration, but they seem to be very clumsy in the way they are going about it.

So I think for me, the window has closed.

[Numenor]

Sorry that's a classic newbie fault - to assume that a "cloud" has to be a public app- or storage-service. IBM, HP and Microsoft (and probably others) are doing good business persuading enterprises to put in their own cloud infrastructure. Sure, there's financial advantage in it being leveraged (shared across many customers) but that doesn't meant that leveraged is the only game in town. I've seen, and in fact used, cloud app solutions that are specific to one customer.

And you have made two incorrect assumptions. One, that I am a newbie, when I've been providing support for leveraged systems for 14 years, and two, that I assumed all 'Cloud' technologies were the same. What else is Citrix, other than Cloud? It's a means of keeping all your users' apps and data safe in a big datacentre whilst granting them access to it from any location (or at least any location of your choice)? The only difference is 14 years ago we didn't call it Cloud.

No, it was quite obvious I was talking about a Windows Operating System forcing users to store their data in Microsoft's internet-accessible file storage system, OneDrive. And if they ever do that, some - I repeat, SOME - businesses will not be able to use it. Businesses which hold the kind of data that could result in international warfare or loss of civilian life could NOT entrust their data to OneDrive. Such data must be secured, and in many cases air-gapped.

[Flash477]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Direct X - this is probably the only thing keeping a lot of gamers on windows. I could see them trying to charge that as a premium feature!

[scaryjim]

... Microsoft have been talking about the possibility of moving to a subscription-only model as one of many possible futures for Windows - heck, I remember articles on this very site at the start of the year. ....

I've seen a lot of articles that have said that, but I can't remember one that was backed up by a direct quote from Microsoft that actually said it. They've talked about monetisation options, and they've probably talked about subscription models, but I don't remember a clear cut "We would consider making a future version of Windows subscription-only". I'd be very interested to read it if it's out there, and to see if there were any hasty retractions following it.

It'd be so out of left field for an OS model that it'd be staggering: i can't think of any other OS that is on a subscription model. Android incorporates lots of advertising and monetisable services, and AFAICT iOS (and maybe OSX too? never used it myself) ties you in to using Apple's app stores/itunes/other monetisable services. But they don't actually charge a subscription for the OS. It'd seem incredibly self-defeating for MS to go down that route....

EDIT:

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Direct X - this is probably the only thing keeping a lot of gamers on windows. I could see them trying to charge that as a premium feature!

The Windows desktop runs under DirectX nowadays (since Vista? Or maybe 7?). They'd need to entirely rewrite the GUI to remove it completely. I guess theoretically they could build a sub-set of DX into the OS and force you to pay for the rst of it, but if they did how quickly do you think game devs would go over to OpenGL or Mantle? "We can use DX and have MS charge all our potential customers a subscription fee so they can keep playing our games, or we can use a different API, bypass that completely and our customers won't need to pay anyone anything extra" isn't really a decision.

[hxsuser]

It's a big mistake to have Windows 10 as a subscription product and I can foresee that users will either hang on to Windows 8.1 without upgrading or alternatively might switch to Linux or an alternative operating system.

It's an ideal opportunity for some some enterprising company to come up with an operating system that is paid for by the usual one off payment.

Users don't like to be blackmailed in this way and if Microsoft is so desperate to cut costs maybe they can save money with a version of Windows that does not need endless security updates, something they have failed to do in previous versions.

Or maybe they could consider the unthinkable and cut executive salaries and expenses. After all everybody else's salaries are being cut or frozen!!

[crossy]

Sorry, Hexus has/had stopped sending me new post updates, so I missed the replies.

And you have made two incorrect assumptions. One, that I am a newbie, when I've been providing support for leveraged systems for 14 years, and two, that I assumed all 'Cloud' technologies were the same. What else is Citrix, other than Cloud? It's a means of keeping all your users' apps and data safe in a big datacentre whilst granting them access to it from any location (or at least any location of your choice)? The only difference is 14 years ago we didn't call it Cloud.

Agree with what you're saying - it's those damned PR/marketing flacs that decided to put the trendy "Cloud" label on everything. (And and it's 30 years of leveraged systems for me - going back to VAX/VMS mini's with VT terminals through to Crays - so I'm not a noob either)

No, it was quite obvious I was talking about a Windows Operating System forcing users to store their data in Microsoft's internet-accessible file storage system, OneDrive. And if they ever do that, some - I repeat, SOME - businesses will not be able to use it. Businesses which hold the kind of data that could result in international warfare or loss of civilian life could NOT entrust their data to OneDrive. Such data must be secured, and in many cases air-gapped.

Obvious to you maybe. And I'm pretty sure I saw some MS marketing bumf about an enterprise cloud storage product (Any MCSP etc want to dive in here?) that isn't OneDrive. Plus I've got docs here about Microsoft products "slotting seamlessly into a variety of cloud infrastructures" so you've got other peoples clouds to think of too. And I'm not sure that there's many classes of business data that would fit easily on a publically-accessible data service - in which case why rely on the poor employee to impose record control - deciding what is, and isn't, commercially sensitive. The scope for problems is just staggering...

i can't think of any other OS that is on a subscription model. Android incorporates lots of advertising and monetisable services, and AFAICT iOS (and maybe OSX too? never used it myself) ties you in to using Apple's app stores/itunes/other monetisable services. But they don't actually charge a subscription for the OS. It'd seem incredibly self-defeating for MS to go down that route....

Totally agree with what you're saying - and good luck selling that idea to the masses. "Oh yes Mr Jones, unless you keep up the payments then this lovely Lenovo/HP/Dell/etc PC you've just bought will turn into a high tech object d'art". The only way I could see that working is if you were "renting" the hardware too. And again, like you, I think a Microsoft that launched a subscription-based OS as it's only offering would fail, fail fail. However, how about an initial purchase, but if you want new features/upgrades then you have to have that subscription - basically a service contract? Just spitballing, not saying it's likely or even being considered chez Redmond.

[iggy]

Kevin Turner has the face of a greasy peanut.

[lordbyro]

Microsoft was already a more respectable enterprise. Today I distrust his capacity to developing really useful products and contents. And I'm not sure no more if MS put consumers with different knowledges and needs in the centre of attention...

Previous Windows versions were showing an enterprise interested by inexperienced and experienced user, equally. Since the launch of the terrible Windows 8 interface, it seems Microsoft to have unified by force consumers needs, believing they all like and want to obtain short trends or all sort of futilities presents in the last half decade.