Sony attempts to lure audiophiles with 'Premium Sound' microSD

[Saracen]

.... People keep talking about valve-powered amps being "warmer" and having a "less clinical" feel - although if you've got an explanation of what that actually means in practice then I'd love to hear it!
....

As I used those phrases, I'll assume that means, or at least includes, me. As I said, it's entirely subjective, so those phrases are supposed to be descriptive rather than definitive.

Which meatball recipe is "better", and which do you prefer? Is a John Lewis suit better than an M&S suit? Is a BMW M3 better than an AMG Mercedes?

On what criteria do you judge?

As with the above, I know what I like and don't like, and often, which I prefer over the others. But "defining" why is much harder.

For instance, some years ago, I compared the M3 to AMG Merc (and a bucketload of others, from Lotus Esprit Turbo to 911 Turbo, from XK8 to DB7. I bought the M3. Why? Because I liked it.

Oh, I could give a long list of factors, from style, to performance per pound, to value for money, to mix of practicality and performance, but at the end of the day, I just liked it best. Then, a few years ago, I contemplated a new one. I didn't even get as far as a test drive. I sat in one, and that was enough. No sale. It felt like I was sitting in the Black Hole of Calcutta, dark, dreary, enclosed, almost claustrophobic. Not, to me a pleasant experience.

A week or two ago, I tried the new one, well, M3 and M4 to be precise. Now I'm torn. It's much better than the last one, yet still, not sure. The external appearance is just .... a bit bloated. It looks .... aggressive, but one of the things I like about my old one is that it really doesn't. You've got to look quite hard, or know what you're looking at, to realise it's not any vanilla 3-series. But the new one is just somehow .... pretentious .... in styling. It's as if BMW adopted some of the worst show-off design style of Japanese pocket rockets, and lost any pretence at subtlety or understatedness in the process.

If those Japanese rockets are brash, loud show-off teenagers, the M3 /M4 is perhaps a middle-aged man trying to be a teenager, and just not quite carrying it off, and looking a bit silly in the process. I'm given to understand they are astoundingly good cars, performance-wise at least, but I'm just not sure that's enough for me.

So the definition of "warmer" and "less clinical". I don't know, and to be honest, don't care. I just like the sound.

But here's a conundrum for you. I have two decent pairs of headphones. One, a high but not top end set of Sennheisers, are a fairly warm, full, rich sound. The other, a set of Stax Electrostatics are about as crisp and clean as headphones get (or got, seeing as I've had them since .... well, a hell of a long time). Yet I REALLY like them. The two, though, are VERY different. But I like both.

Or to put it another way, I like Renoir and Matisse, but don't like Van Gogh or Picasso. Which is better? Don't know, and don't care. I just know which I like. Just as, if I try a new meatball recipe, I know if I like it or don't but would struggle to define why, and certainly to state which was "better" than the other.

It's subjective.

[tribaljet]

While tube amps do have a characteristically warmer sound, I personally do prefer a more accurate solid state amp sound for work and whenever I want to tinker with sound characteristics, using high quality EQing sorts out those needs

In the end, it's pretty much a personal choice (as with so many audio-related matters), and it's great that we have enough options to choose from.

EDIT: Kudos on your Stax, Saracen, and they should be an interesting match with the amping you're giving them. On the Sennheisers, are you rocking HD600 by any chance (or another open model)?

[Saracen]

Oh, crossy, one more thing. From time to time, we get "which speakers should I buy" type questions. I, along with others here (likely you, included) always offer the same advice .... go listen to them. Just because I like XYZ #3a's doesn't mean anyone else should, or will.

I can try to describe why I like them, but as what I hear is what my brain makes of electrical signals send from the nerves in my ears, and you're using a different brain interpreting different nerve signals from different ears, my opinion is that better or worse are irrelevant. There's just degrees of like and don't like.

I don't care, AT ALL, if a spectrum analyser shows something else is a far more accurate representation of the original recorded sound, if I don't like it. Maybe that excludes me from the National Association of Audiophiles, for not being purist about it, but like meatballs or cars, I just know what I like or don't.

I can try to describe why, but can't define what it is, especially when you don't hear using my ears, etc.

[ZaO]

I think Zao just caused some younger members heads to explode.....as they go off goggling valves and tapes!!

Haha Tapes haven't been forgotten yet, have they.... ?

Oh, crossy, one more thing. From time to time, we get "which speakers should I buy" type questions. I, along with others here (likely you, included) always offer the same advice .... go listen to them. Just because I like XYZ #3a's doesn't mean anyone else should, or will.

I can try to describe why I like them, but as what I hear is what my brain makes of electrical signals send from the nerves in my ears, and you're using a different brain interpreting different nerve signals from different ears, my opinion is that better or worse are irrelevant. There's just degrees of like and don't like.

I don't care, AT ALL, if a spectrum analyser shows something else is a far more accurate representation of the original recorded sound, if I don't like it. Maybe that excludes me from the National Association of Audiophiles, for not being purist about it, but like meatballs or cars, I just know what I like or don't.

I can try to describe why, but can't define what it is, especially when you don't hear using my ears, etc.

I hear you. Personally, I like to have as much of a pure monitoring experience as possible, so that I hear a sound which is as close as possible to what the producer heard, because that's the sound they intended for you to hear. But, it's up to the end user to have it sounding how they want. We don't all hear stuff quite the same either. Plus our listening environments vary a hell of a lot, and can really affect the sound. Even with a great setup with a flat eq and speakers with a very flat response, a terrible room/placement of speakers can really mess things up! Though I've got to say, it kills me to see people with their systems setup so far from the truth of the sound. The producer puts all that work into the mix, then someone just kills it with excessive muffled bass and a real lack of top end (I see this far too much!). But again - the listener can have it how they want. Whatever they enjoy

[Saracen]

While tube amps do have a characteristically warmer sound, I personally do prefer a more accurate solid state amp sound for work and whenever I want to tinker with sound characteristics, using high quality EQing sorts out those needs

In the end, it's pretty much a personal choice (as with so many audio-related matters), and it's great that we have enough options to choose from.

EDIT: Kudos on your Stax, Saracen, and they should be an interesting match with the amping you're giving them. On the Sennheisers, are you rocking HD600 by any chance (or another open model)?

I don't remember the Sennheiser model, offhand, but older than the 600 IIRC. For some reason, HD580 rings a bell, but don't hold me to it. They were, IIRC, about £130-ish, but about 15 years ago.

As for the Stax, I bought 'em about 1975-ish, but couldn't swear to the exact date. They've been 'amped' by all sorts over the years, from Yamaha to Lecson to Quad valve, but bear in mind thet need to separate ... well, I'll call it a pre-amp though it isn't exactly, because of the voltage demands of electrostatics.

They are, though, IMHO, quite a unique sound and in their day leagues above anything else I'd heard. But .... well, tech moves on an even £30 headphones are worlds better than mist headphones from 30 or 40 years ago.

Great though they are, I doubt I'd pay modern-day prices over far less expensive models. Even if the Stax have improved, my ears sure haven't.

[Jonj1611]

Haha Tapes haven't been forgotten yet, have they.... ?

My daughter is 10 years old, a few weeks ago a song came on the TV, I said, I used to have that on tape. The reply I received was, "What's a tape".................

[watercooled]

Valves are also live things, not just some zeros and ones/computer program.

Transistors don't have to be binary either; especially in amplifier circuits they're generally operated in the ohmic region i.e. not fully on or off. You can still have fully analogue semiconductor circuits.

[DanceswithUnix]

Oh, and I used to own two Lancias - both suffered from rot. And even the six month old Fiat 500 my wife got from the insurance folks while hers was being repaired (other car slid into it) had a rust patch near the door. Although that little 500 was an absolute hoot to drive, really like a chance in the Arbarth version...

Two Lancias? Good man, he says sipping tea from his Club Lancia Sport mug

Yeah Lancias did that up until about 1980 when they fixed the design error that made Betas get stress corrosion around the front subframe, stopped using cheap Russian steel and properly rust proofed them. 35 years on, and some 20 years after all Alfa's were all fully immersion galvanised people still tell me my Alfa will rust. Some idiot in a 4x4 swiped down the side of my car and took a load of paint off. It is down to the metal in places, and I really should get it done as it looks a bit untidy. After about 6 months it hasn't started rusting though.

One chap used to tell me my car was unreliable, yet I swear half the trim on his Golf had fallen off and was either rattling around in the boot or the glove box. I wasn't the one who had to have his car towed off because the brakes seized on, yet clearly his noisier, more expensive and slower car was better. I was amused to read an old Rudyard Kipling story which I think was from around 1903 (pre WW1 anyway) where he went on about cheap shoddy German engineering so I guess that good reputation is a recent thing. Still I was happy with my choice, he was somehow happy with his which is all that really matters.

My wife had a go in an Abarth 500, though it was one our mechanic used for tuning practice on them as his garage has a rolling road as he does remaps as one of the services he sells. She utterly detested the standard 500 she drove, but came back with a huge grin from the Abarth

[tribaljet]

I don't remember the Stax model, offhand, but older than the 600 IIRC. For somd reason, HD580 rings a bell, but don't hold me to it. They were, IIRC, about £130-ish, but about 15 years ago.

As for the Stax, I bought 'em about 1975-ish, but couldn't swear to the exact date. They've been 'amped' by all sorts over the years, from Yamaha to Lecson to Quad valve, but bear in mind thet need to separate ... well, I'll call it a pre-amp though it isn't exactly, because of the voltage demands of electrostatics.

They are, though, IMHO, quite a unique sound and in their day leagues above anything else I'd heard. But .... well, tech moves on an even £30 headphones are worlds better than mist headphones from 30 or 40 years ago.

Great though they are, I doubt I'd pay modern-day prices over far less expensive models. Even if the Stax have improved, my ears sure haven't.

HD580 sounds about right as well, same as pricing for the time, which has spiked considerably over time. And Stax ages very graciously, so I imagine your set to work properly for years to come. However, I wonder if you've considered getting one of the newer models that have raving reviews everywhere, especially for electrostatic lovers.

And yes, it's definitely a fair point regarding human hearing and how there are tipping points for natural degradation, something that is mitigated through proper care of one's own hearing.

I'm currently waiting for truly high quality digital formats to become more widespread, such as DSD and DXD, but it might be an uphill battle due to how abundant MP3 and AAC are.

[DanceswithUnix]

And yes, it's definitely a fair point regarding human hearing and how there are tipping points for natural degradation, something that is mitigated through proper care of one's own hearing.

Having once had my ears syringed (well, water pumped in to be more precise) I am surprised that isn't offered as a service to audiophiles. I mean, if you will pay £6000 for a dubious cable, then clearly unlocking the frequencies blocked by wax build up with obvious and provable benefits must be worth about the cost of a house?

For anyone who hasn't had it done, you don't realise how much hearing you have lost until afterwards when the world seems amazingly clear and loud.

[tribaljet]

Having once had my ears syringed (well, water pumped in to be more precise) I am surprised that isn't offered as a service to audiophiles. I mean, if you will pay £6000 for a dubious cable, then clearly unlocking the frequencies blocked by wax build up with obvious and provable benefits must be worth about the cost of a house?

For anyone who hasn't had it done, you don't realise how much hearing you have lost until afterwards when the world seems amazingly clear and loud.

That's quite interesting and could be viable from a practical standpoint, with the only issue being that water pumping removes too much wax, leaving the ear canal too exposed and more prone to potential infections, which is why medical practices everywhere now do recommend against doing so and rather using methods to fluidify wax instead. But yes, one really gets a clear hearing afterwards

EDIT: I would also like to add that if there is someone with suggestions on how to protect hearing after water pumping, I would very much like to know because health is really the only concern for doing so.

[shaithis]

For anyone who hasn't had it done, you don't realise how much hearing you have lost until afterwards when the world seems amazingly clear and loud.

I do it regularly after seeing people on AV-Forums with stupidly priced setups saying that it was the largest upgrade to sound quality they had ever had

[ZaO]

My daughter is 10 years old, a few weeks ago a song came on the TV, I said, I used to have that on tape. The reply I received was, "What's a tape".................

... ;(

[Saracen]

HD580 sounds about right as well, same as pricing for the time, which has spiked considerably over time. And Stax ages very graciously, so I imagine your set to work properly for years to come. However, I wonder if you've considered getting one of the newer models that have raving reviews everywhere, especially for electrostatic lovers.

And yes, it's definitely a fair point regarding human hearing and how there are tipping points for natural degradation, something that is mitigated through proper care of one's own hearing.

I'm currently waiting for truly high quality digital formats to become more widespread, such as DSD and DXD, but it might be an uphill battle due to how abundant MP3 and AAC are.

Are Stax still even imported into the UK? They certainly became harder and harder to find. I bought mine at my local 'premium' dealer, but there aren't many independent specialists left.

As for considering newer Stax models .... not really. Given the cost, while mine are working, I think it'd be VERY expensive to upgrade to anything significantly better, and given that I'm getting older every year () I'm not sure it'd be justified. Besides, opportunity cost says there's other things I'd rather spend money on.

While I love the Stax's, I doubt I'd replace them if they quit working. They're just too expensive. I also don't use headphones anything like as much as I used to. For a start, when I bought them, it was for use at home, and at Uni .... 'cos carting the transmission line speakers back and forth wasn't an option, and my rooms at Uni weren't much bigger than the speakers.

Now, of course, it's my house so if I want to run speakers fairly loud, it's my call and nobody to stop me. Headphones aren't as useful, except when the Mrs is in bed.
To be honest, I don't really even want to listen to new Stax's .... I just might be tempted.

[tribaljet]

Are Stax still even imported into the UK? They certainly became harder and harder to find. I bought mine at my local 'premium' dealer, but there aren't many independent specialists left.

As for considering newer Stax models .... not really. Given the cost, while mine are working, I think it'd be VERY expensive to upgrade to anything significantly better, and given that I'm getting older every year () I'm not sure it'd be justified. Besides, opportunity cost says there's other things I'd rather spend money on.

While I love the Stax's, I doubt I'd replace them if they quit working. They're just too expensive. I also don't use headphones anything like as much as I used to. For a start, when I bought them, it was for use at home, and at Uni .... 'cos carting the transmission line speakers back and forth wasn't an option, and my rooms at Uni weren't much bigger than the speakers.

To be honest, I don't really even want to listen to new Stax's .... I just might be tempted.

As far as I'm aware they are, at least I see people from all over the place being able to get them, including the UK. After all, it's in their best interests to sell as many units to as many customers possible.

If you get the chance, you really ought to have a listening session with the SR-009. They're an expensive set but given you're already familiar with the brand's signature, it just might be (significantly) your cup of tea. And yes, that should even overcome any physical limitations, which leads me to ask, have you taken good care of your hearing over time?

Either those were some massive speakers or tiny rooms

Go have a listen, you know there's good things to be listened to... *evil palm rub*

[Saracen]

.... And yes, that should even overcome any physical limitations, which leads me to ask, have you taken good care of your hearing over time?

....

Well, I certainly haven't abused my hearing. But time marches on.