ARM takes wraps off Cortex-A72 processor

[HEXUS]

And it's bit of a beast.

Read more.

[nitro912gr]

Finally the RISC vs CISC is back, I remember the old days when mac's with RISC CPUs where 3 time stronger at the same Mhz against CISC Intel/Cyrix/AMD CPUs. Unfortunately from a point on they couldn't keep the heat down and dropped out of the consumer game.

I wonder now, considering that apple make their own ARM based CPUs, what are the changes to change intel CPUs for their own ARM powered ones?

[GuidoLS]

Finally the RISC vs CISC is back, I remember the old days when mac's with RISC CPUs where 3 time stronger at the same Mhz against CISC Intel/Cyrix/AMD CPUs. Unfortunately from a point on they couldn't keep the heat down and dropped out of the consumer game.

I wonder now, considering that apple make their own ARM based CPUs, what are the changes to change intel CPUs for their own ARM powered ones?

Odds are, probably not. These benchmarks are kind of deceptive, because in the ultra-fine print, they do say that the Intel chip is being throttled. Even a Beetle will beat a Porsche with a flat tire. Some of the time.

That, and nobody in their right mind would expect Apple to use the Core M in any of their actual computers, so the ARM chip would hardly be considered a real replacement. Neither chip has anywhere enough horsepower. And Apple is getting their current gen A7 chips from Samsung, and not in-house. They may do the design, but they're not doing their own fab, and I'm not sure they ever have. Up through the Power PCs it was Motorola, and then they switched to Intel (on the computer side of things) And despite all the legal shenanigans, they still get all their tablet/phablet/phone SoC's from Samsung.

Apple is too conservative. Unless there is a reasonable chance they'll make a huge profit, they won't budge, especially when what they are currently doing works so well.

[MrRockliffe]

Apple have used the core M in their new macbook.

[DanceswithUnix]

Finally the RISC vs CISC is back, I remember the old days when mac's with RISC CPUs where 3 time stronger at the same Mhz against CISC Intel/Cyrix/AMD CPUs. Unfortunately from a point on they couldn't keep the heat down and dropped out of the consumer game.

Neither really won, but with x86 chips working as translators into internal RISC micro ops the world just moved on from the now pointless RISC vs CISC debate. Right now if you want the best machine available for business critical work, then you will probably end up going to IBM and getting a Power based machine. Your routers and TVs around the house are all RISC based, it is really only Windows PCs that are stubbornly x86.

Apple is too conservative. Unless there is a reasonable chance they'll make a huge profit, they won't budge, especially when what they are currently doing works so well.

Have you seen how much Intel charge for their processors? I think it is a question of when Apple change, not if.

[gagaga]

[QUOTE=DanceswithUnix;11281]

it is really only Windows PCs that are stubbornly x86.

100s of millions of servers, industrial control systems, apple macs and linux boxes will disagree.

Funny how apple were still claiming something stupid like 5x speed difference right upto the point where they dumped ppc and went intel....

[DanceswithUnix]

100s of millions of servers, industrial control systems, apple macs and linux boxes will disagree.

Funny how apple were still claiming something stupid like 5x speed difference right upto the point where they dumped ppc and went intel....

That vs countless billions of routers, phones, car engine control units, pretty much anything with buttons on is RISC and anything with a network port is an embedded Linux box running on a RISC chip.

My Linux boxes are Linux boxes, the fact that they run on x86 is pretty irrelevant to me but they are because that is the *only* hardware I can buy. That may change though, have you tried the new Raspberry Pi 2? It isn't quick, but it is quite usable and nicer to use than my old Atom board. If the Raspberry Pi 3 has quad A72 cores rather than quad A7, then I may not need x86 any more.

Apple claim all sorts of stuff, I wouldn't put any further thought behind that

[GuidoLS]

Have you seen how much Intel charge for their processors? I think it is a question of when Apple change, not if.

I've seen how much they charge consumers. Guarantee OEMs don't pay that. Not even remotely close. In some instances, by a factor of 10 or more. I'll let you guess who those companies might be.

[GuidoLS]

That vs countless billions of routers, phones, car engine control units, pretty much anything with buttons on is RISC and anything with a network port is an embedded Linux box running on a RISC chip.

My Linux boxes are Linux boxes, the fact that they run on x86 is pretty irrelevant to me but they are because that is the *only* hardware I can buy. That may change though, have you tried the new Raspberry Pi 2? It isn't quick, but it is quite usable and nicer to use than my old Atom board. If the Raspberry Pi 3 has quad A72 cores rather than quad A7, then I may not need x86 any more.

Apple claim all sorts of stuff, I wouldn't put any further thought behind that

What's interesting about all that stuff you listed is they all have something else in common besides not being x86. None of them can run even a medium requirement piece of software, let alone a high end game, or cad/cam program. And no current SoC is going to change that. And as much as I love my Pi and Pi2, I've yet to find even a PCI slot, let alone an AGP or PCI-E slot to put in a real video card.

[nitro912gr]

I've seen how much they charge consumers. Guarantee OEMs don't pay that. Not even remotely close. In some instances, by a factor of 10 or more. I'll let you guess who those companies might be.

I recall a statement from many laptop makers that they can't drop the ultrabooks at lower prices because the intel package to make them was about 600-700 euro for a laptop of 1000 euro, so combined with the cost of the rest of the machine, plus the cost of R&D, marketing etc, the margins seem really low.

So considering that most of the apple laptops are "ultrabooks", I don't believe even apple have good profit margins here. This and that rumors of an arm powered entry level macbook run rounds for a couple of years, make me believe that they are ready to jump ship with the first change.

[GuidoLS]

I recall a statement from many laptop makers that they can't drop the ultrabooks at lower prices because the intel package to make them was about 600-700 euro for a laptop of 1000 euro, so combined with the cost of the rest of the machine, plus the cost of R&D, marketing etc, the margins seem really low.

So considering that most of the apple laptops are "ultrabooks", I don't believe even apple have good profit margins here. This and that rumors of an arm powered entry level macbook run rounds for a couple of years, make me believe that they are ready to jump ship with the first change.

Intel set the definition for the term 'ultrabook'. One thing they all have in common, regardless of manufacturer, is they run on an Intel I-* chip, be it I3, I5 or I7. So if someone wanted to be really pedantic about things, there will never be an ultrabook with an ARM processor in it. And doing so might be expensive, as Intel owns the trademark. Also, technically, Apple Mac Air laptops (the closest actual hardware) are not considered Ultrabooks because they don't have a touchscreen.

Cost is not entirely based on the price of the Intel CPU - another part of the definition is that all Ultrabooks (as of Gen 3) have touch-screen tech AND SSD's - two techs that are as expensive or more than the cpu.

And seriously? There have been no new rumors since 2011, and they were originally started by a fellow named Matt Richman, who quoted an ex-Apple exec's interview for Quartz. Steve Jobs sort of said maybe. Then he said not likely. Then he left the world much as we all do eventually. At the time, the reason there was any speculation was because Intel was charging Apple $300 for the newest, top of the line I7's, and someone suggested that making their own chips would be a cheaper alternative. Yet here we are...

The simple fact is, mass market laptops are low margin, for the most part. Apple makes a good margin. Dell makes good margin on their Alienware series. Most others make their profit by selling space on your new hard drive with demos, lousy av programs and other assorted crapware.

[GuidoLS]

Apple have used the core M in their new macbook.

Which makes no sense. It's not available yet, but they are planning on offering the 1.1 and 1.2ghz chips, for the low low price of $1300US, with no guarantee of the Retina display, which is the only thing close to justifying the price. The Yoga has already shown the Core M doesn't handle high res graphics very well. Add to that there's already a Macbook Pro out there with an I7 and Retina in it for the same price, one has to wonder who they're trying to fool.

[DanceswithUnix]

What's interesting about all that stuff you listed is they all have something else in common besides not being x86. None of them can run even a medium requirement piece of software, let alone a high end game, or cad/cam program. And no current SoC is going to change that. And as much as I love my Pi and Pi2, I've yet to find even a PCI slot, let alone an AGP or PCI-E slot to put in a real video card.

Now be fair, take a look around your local consumer electronics store at the PCs on offer. Most of them are laptops with no upgradable anything. Of the few desktops, most are Atom based and/or come with such an underpowered PSU that they leave the PCIe x16 slot off to make sure no-one tries to plug stuff in. But that is fine, because most peripherals these days are USB, so just as at home on Pi as on a laptop. ARM boards with PCIe slots do exist, or get an Nvidia k1 board and get OK graphics out the box (albeit at Nvidia prices).

Thinking about it, I recently bought a PiGlow board to plug onto my Pi2 making it the most recent expansion board I have bought. Before then was probably a TV card about 10 years ago, these days that would be USB.

[nitro912gr]

anyway time will tell, if apple is about to jump to ARMs for laptops I suspect it will be with the next generation of their laptops