Amazon Prime Day will have "more deals than Black Friday"

[HEXUS]

Event takes place on 15th July. And for the next two days you can join Amazon Prime for £59.

Read more.

[shaithis]

"more deals than Black Friday"

Shouldn't be too difficult as far as the UK goes.....

[Saracen]

Whoop de do.

For existing Prime members, fine. For those tempted, fine. For me, being neither .... yawn.

Oh, and if I had been tempted, they'd have lost me instantly at "auto-renew". No way in hell. I refuse point blank to do that for ANYTHING.

[Jowsey]

Oh, and if I had been tempted, they'd have lost me instantly at "auto-renew". No way in hell. I refuse point blank to do that for ANYTHING.

There's a button in the options that toggles it off. Same with absolutely every online subscription based service that doesn't have a defined end point, I believe.

Then again I'm not one of those muppets that forgets what he has 'going on'. People who signed up to Amazon prime free trial where it explicitly states that it lasts for a month and then whine when it takes the subscription due after the free month shouldn't be allowed a refund. Not implying you are Saracen as you are very clearly aware of where your data is at, and I imagine if people were as careful as you a lot of unsavoury companies would have failed a long time ago. But that's the loudest complaint I hear about auto-renew subscriptions. Granted, I don't know a huge deal about the method in which prime renews (I don't have it and have never allowed it to even get close to it's auto-renew period) so perhaps they don't attempt any communication at all. Not even an e-mail the week before. In which case that's some very poor practice from Amazon but it doesn't excuse people for forgetting where they've entered there bank details and who they have gave licence to charge said bank details!

Edit: On topic, I won't be buying anything from them as them having a 'sale' further perpetuates the issues I have discussed before. Staff overworking and reportedly pathetic pay and razor thin margins producing no profit but an endless stream of cash which fuels a ravenous need to expand. To list some.

[Michael H]

The deals will be available to those on the prime trial as well, so if you buy something from amazon between now and then (even if it's something cheap like a single book) and opt for a free trial of prime, you can immediately go and choose not to continue from the prime options, and it will continue until the end of the 30 days and not continue even if you then forget about it.

[Saracen]

There's a button in the options that toggles it off. Same with absolutely every online subscription based service that doesn't have a defined end point, I believe.

Then again I'm not one of those muppets that forgets what he has 'going on'. People who signed up to Amazon prime free trial where it explicitly states that it lasts for a month and then whine when it takes the subscription due after the free month shouldn't be allowed a refund. Not implying you are Saracen as you are very clearly aware of where your data is at, and I imagine if people were as careful as you a lot of unsavoury companies would have failed a long time ago. But that's the loudest complaint I hear about auto-renew subscriptions. Granted, I don't know a huge deal about the method in which prime renews (I don't have it and have never allowed it to even get close to it's auto-renew period) so perhaps they don't attempt any communication at all. Not even an e-mail the week before. In which case that's some very poor practice from Amazon but it doesn't excuse people for forgetting where they've entered there bank details and who they have gave licence to charge said bank details!

I guess my lack of tolerance of auto-renew comes from an experience a few years back with a large and supposedly reputable insurance company with whom, when renewing, I explicitly stated, three times, it was a one-off payment and NOT to be auto-renewed, only to have them try to auto-renew it 12 months later, after I'd taken out a policy with someone else as the 'auto-renewal premium' they quoted was .... erm .... excessive. The credit card company reversed the charge after I complained and explained .... and played them the recording of the renewal conversation in which I had repeatedly rejected auto-renewal, and the insurer had agreed. The insurer then threatened court action to recover the premium, at which point I told them "play me the recording you say you have of the conversation, and if I didn't reject auto-renewal, I'll pay you. Failing that, see you in court, and you can play it for the judge. And if you can't or won't play your recording, that's fine too .... we'll use my recording".

At that point, they decided not to pursue the matter. Shame, because I was looking forward to it.

My concern is that auto-renew is fine if it suits you, and you want it. For some, the advantage is (like with insurance) you're assured continuity of cover, if you forget. However, the price of that is that you emphatically aren't assured a reasonable premium, as in my experience (in which I nearly halved their quote with a single phone call to a broker), and may well be in for a nightmare of a fight trying to cancel.

Auto-renewal is, in my view, too much of a golden opportunity to get yourself stitched up, even by apparently reputable companies. Would Amazon? I doubt it. But I object to the practice, on principle. My view is if I want to renew any service, I'll renew it. I don't want ANY company just assuming I'll renew any annual subscription.

It is, if you like, an aspect of the same reason I vehemently objected to Scan adding Scansure onto web orders by default. If I want it, I'll add it. Ditto auto-renewal, be it Amazon or car insurers. Offer it, by all means. But don't do it by default. If doing so isn't yet illegal, it certainly ought to be ... just like adding insurance to computer bits or holiday travel now is.

[DanceswithUnix]

If you sign up for a Prime trial, turn off the renew and then let it lapse, does it make all the nagging about Prime go away?

I'm guessing not, but I can dream...

[anselhelm]

For anyone concerned with auto-renew, you can turn it off.

Furthermore, so long as pay by Visa or Mastercard, you're covered by chargeback rights, under reason codes 41 and 4841 respectively, so long as you can provide a cancellation date (or a date you tried to cancel).

I do, however, agree that it would be far easier to forbid services from being allowed to auto-renew anyone, as it does cause a lot of stress, work and headaches for people to deal with.

[Hicks12]

Saracen I respect your opinion on this however Amazon is probably one of the best with regards to auto renewal, when I signed up many years ago now it clearly stated in bold that it would auto renew but it also had a very plain user-friendly picture showing how to navigate to your account and immediately disable the auto renew, you can then use it up to the period you paid (or have a trial) for which compared to everyone else is pretty clear and upfront.

Prime is certainly worth it on a case by case basis, its not a clear cut winner but in my case it is as I take a lot of deliveries and Amazon takes 90% of my orders because they're cheapest 90% of the time and their customer service is the best I have ever experienced, it even bests Dells business warranty support, Amazon seems better than online and offline retails in my experience so I stick with them as they make effort to keep my money. Obviously if you dont watch online movies/tv that is available on prime instant it loses a chunk of value (again I find a lot to watch ).


Cant wait to see what deals they have on but I wont be stupid like a lot of people seem to be, blackfriday deals were okay but I always research the pricing via other sites and camelcamelcamel to see if its really a legit saving.

[Fynriel]

Even if you did forget to turn of auto renewal (as I once did), you can contact support via live chat and they'd help you out. I was a day late and my card had been charged for the next term. I explained my mistake and they still refunded me. Amazon support is seriously awesome.

[Saracen]

Saracen I respect your opinion on this however Amazon is probably one of the best with regards to auto renewal, when I signed up many years ago now it clearly stated in bold that it would auto renew but it also had a very plain user-friendly picture showing how to navigate to your account and immediately disable the auto renew, you can then use it up to the period you paid (or have a trial) for which compared to everyone else is pretty clear and upfront.

Prime is certainly worth it on a case by case basis, its not a clear cut winner but in my case it is as I take a lot of deliveries and Amazon takes 90% of my orders because they're cheapest 90% of the time and their customer service is the best I have ever experienced, it even bests Dells business warranty support, Amazon seems better than online and offline retails in my experience so I stick with them as they make effort to keep my money. Obviously if you dont watch online movies/tv that is available on prime instant it loses a chunk of value (again I find a lot to watch ).


Cant wait to see what deals they have on but I wont be stupid like a lot of people seem to be, blackfriday deals were okay but I always research the pricing via other sites and camelcamelcamel to see if its really a legit saving.

Well, as I tried to stress in my first post, it's the principle of defaulting people into auto-renew I object to. It is just my opinion, but the fact that Amazon use it, by default, AT ALL means they aren't one of the best, in that opinion. It's academic anyway, because Amazon lost any chance of my business on Prime when they jacked the price hugely, and included video, a service I have absolutely no interest in, whatever.

Add to that that I avoid buying online at all, wherever possible, and my activity levels on Anazon don't justify Prime anyway. Hence my comment about being neither a Prime member, nor interested in being one. But if I were, auto-renew would ensure I didn't.

[Tpyo]

Re: Saracen
Not sure if this works or if it helps either (given it is a principle), but could you sign up for things like this and pay using a disposable/prepaid card? Then when renewal time comes around, the card is empty/expired so they have to contact you to ask if you want to renew anyway, irrespective of what the company policy was - it doesn't change their official policy but it enforces them to work your way.

EDIT: On second thoughts, with Amazon you'd probably also have to give up the one-click ordering etc. - if they had a different card on file, they'd probably just bill that one. It might still work in other situations.

[kalniel]

Re: Saracen
Not sure if this works or if it helps either (given it is a principle), but could you sign up for things like this and pay using a disposable/prepaid card? Then when renewal time comes around, the card is empty/expired so they have to contact you to ask if you want to renew anyway, irrespective of what the company policy was - it doesn't change their official policy but it enforces them to work your way.

Legally much trickier - by the time of renewal you're effectively buying a service but then failing to pay for it, breaching contract and they could perhaps pursue you for costs.

Better would be to write requesting that no renewal happens, then you can pursue them for costs if they do. Amazon follow this model with the option not to auto-renew, only it's a simple link rather than having to write.

[Saracen]

Legally much trickier - by the time of renewal you're effectively buying a service but then failing to pay for it, breaching contract and they could perhaps pursue you for costs.

Better would be to write requesting that no renewal happens, then you can pursue them for costs if they do. Amazon follow this model with the option not to auto-renew, only it's a simple link rather than having to write.

Actually, I don't think they could, or would, pursue you for costs. The reason will be in my next post, in reply to Tpyo. You're right in the general case but, IMHO, not in this one.

[Saracen]

Re: Saracen
Not sure if this works or if it helps either (given it is a principle), but could you sign up for things like this and pay using a disposable/prepaid card? Then when renewal time comes around, the card is empty/expired so they have to contact you to ask if you want to renew anyway, irrespective of what the company policy was - it doesn't change their official policy but it enforces them to work your way.

EDIT: On second thoughts, with Amazon you'd probably also have to give up the one-click ordering etc. - if they had a different card on file, they'd probably just bill that one. It might still work in other situations.

You could do that, with one modification, but it would mean going out and getting a prepayment card explicitly for the purpose. I think you can guess my reaction to that.

The modification is to be SURE you don't have ANY valid cards "on record" with Amazon, because when you sign up, you have AGREED to them using ANY card they have on file. What does "on record" mean? One you currently have registered, or one you used once, two years ago, but have since removed but they still have records of? I don't know.

If you don't have any valid payment method on record, their T&Cs state they will cancel your membership. This, Kal, is why they can't (and wouldn't want to anyway, IMHO) go after you for defaulting.

In any event, it still leaves me faffing about trying to prevent auto-renew, then worrying about whether I covered all angles, etc. So, I turn it off in my "Account" .... how do I prove I did, in the event of a dispute?

Then there's this ...

...
Agreement Changes

We may in our discretion change these Terms, our Conditions of Use & Sale, our Privacy Notice, or any aspect of Prime membership, from time to time without notice to you by posting revisions on the Amazon.co.uk website. YOUR CONTINUED MEMBERSHIP AFTER ANY CHANGE CONSTITUTES YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF THE CHANGE. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ANY CHANGE, YOU MUST CANCEL YOUR MEMBERSHIP.

...

So, any changes Amazon make and put on the website, AFTER you sign up, will bind you as soon as you make a transaction, unless they're either legally invalid, or you notice them and cancel membership. They could, therefore, decide you need to give written notice of 30 days or they'll auto-renew. Or make changes to what they do with your personal data, etc.

Will they? I doubt it. But it's why I don't even want ANY retailers holding my card details on record. Not anybody, not for any reason. If I want to buy something, I want to manually authorise it, each and every time.

I can understand why they want a term like that, but it does leave it wide open for them to make almost any change they fancy, and if you don't notice ....

[peterb]

A bargain is only a bargain if it was something you were looking to buy anyway, and as I'm not, and have no intention of becoming, a Prime member, next Wednesday will not see me glued to the Amazon site.