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Thread: Nvidia launches the Pascal GPU-based TITAN X

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    Re: Nvidia launches the Pascal GPU-based TITAN X

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    The problem is, you can't expect anything else.

    If they score "card A" 92% and "card B" is faster in every way......then it seems harsh to rate it lower due to price....unless of course it's a VFM score (which does seem to be lacking from many reviews these days)

    Of course, if you know what you want the card to do and what you expect from it, you can weight that score yourself but a reviewer cannot. For instance, if you had a 1280x768 display the Titan X VFM would be near-zero. If you wanted it for a compute-cluster, then suddenly VFM is high. The price is highly subjective from the view-point of a purchaser and it should be left to them to decide what is too much to pay....not a reviewer who will always weight it from their perspective and then slant the review/score accordingly.
    Or they can call out the pricing as being mental just like some of the mental silly edition cards 10 years ago,and that the pricing increase is getting ridiculous. They seemed to have quietly ignored the fact that in six years the top end Nvidia card with a 500MM2+ GPU has gone up from $500 to $1200.

    Edit!!

    Compare that to so many other consumer electronic products,that is just a mental increase in price.

    It appears graphics cards seem to be in their little bubble.

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    Re: Nvidia launches the Pascal GPU-based TITAN X

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo Ryuu View Post
    I don't want to be nostalgic (I am not that old, 30, but I've been using pcs and consoles since really really young) but things back then were better.
    I am also a developer, so I always appreciated how smart devs were back then, when they didn't have the computing power, the memory, and had to make full use of every single resource they had.
    Their ability really shined through all the hacks and tricks they had to come up to realize something that was in their mind against the limits.
    Compared to today where they mostly rely on middleware and pre-made graphic engines, it's like their minds got numb, or just sloppy, even when the shared knowledge through internet should allow for futher improvements.

    And I don't want to even start with today's business models and zero-day patches...
    I must say I'm inclined to agree. As much as I accept middleware etc helps with development times/costs for what are increasingly costly projects, they do seem to be relied upon a little too heavily a lot of the time. So for all the increased hardware performance, it's basically countered by increasingly bloated software.

    It's not like we're getting suddenly increasing hardware performance though, quite the opposite. Back when Moore's law was in full swing say 10 years ago, we'd have new GPUs every node and half-node with 2x performance (at the same price point!) per 18 months or less being fairly commonplace (e.g. 4870>5870). I got my 280X for ~£230 about three years ago. For the same price now I'd get roughly a 45% improvement.

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    Re: Nvidia launches the Pascal GPU-based TITAN X

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    I must say I'm inclined to agree. As much as I accept middleware etc helps with development times/costs for what are increasingly costly projects, they do seem to be relied upon a little too heavily a lot of the time. So for all the increased hardware performance, it's basically countered by increasingly bloated software.

    It's not like we're getting suddenly increasing hardware performance though, quite the opposite. Back when Moore's law was in full swing say 10 years ago, we'd have new GPUs every node and half-node with 2x performance (at the same price point!) per 18 months or less being fairly commonplace (e.g. 4870>5870). I got my 280X for ~£230 about three years ago. For the same price now I'd get roughly a 45% improvement.
    Exactly. Despite all the marketing and the pompous announcements the improvements they provide, iteration after iteration are barely noticeable in the finished products.
    I feel like we're in a racing competition, and while the engine manifacturer build better engines, the road builders decide to rely on that and build worse roads to run on.

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    Re: Nvidia launches the Pascal GPU-based TITAN X

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Or they can call out the pricing as being mental just like some of the mental silly edition cards 10 years ago,and that the pricing increase is getting ridiculous. They seemed to have quietly ignored the fact that in six years the top end Nvidia card with a 500MM2+ GPU has gone up from $500 to $1200.
    I still see the Titan cards as business cards...and as such I have no problem with their pricing.....In fact you could argue they are priced to stop gamers buying them!

    My main problem is how these cards do not seem to be subsidising the models below them.
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    Re: Nvidia launches the Pascal GPU-based TITAN X

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo Ryuu View Post
    Exactly. Despite all the marketing and the pompous announcements the improvements they provide, iteration after iteration are barely noticeable in the finished products.
    I feel like we're in a racing competition, and while the engine manifacturer build better engines, the road builders decide to rely on that and build worse roads to run on.
    Another win-win scenario. Devs making PC ports of games using the cheapest ways to do it,and Nvidia and AMD can flash some money their way,and it means they can push more people to upgrade their cards for meh looking games. People who don't want to buy the PC version due to the cost of graphics cards,then go to consoles,where the devs make even more money and have even great lock-in.

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    I still see the Titan cards as business cards...and as such I have no problem with their pricing.....In fact you could argue they are priced to stop gamers buying them!

    My main problem is how these cards do not seem to be subsidising the models below them.
    They serve to jack up the whole pricing of the range - hence why we are seeing 60 series cards and their AMD equivalents slowing creeping up towards £300(not all of it is due to the weak pound).

    Its working very well - enthusiast card sales doubled last year,and I expect it is because the sub £200 cards were not brilliant and people were made to spend between £200 to £300 for a decent increase in performance.

    The problem is longterm it will make consoles look more attractive if the price increases don't stop.

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    Re: Nvidia launches the Pascal GPU-based TITAN X

    If you think the halo products are what is causing price-hikes, your not looking at the thousands of other variables that effect prices......

    And consoles are about to enter the 'halo products' arena also.

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    Re: Nvidia launches the Pascal GPU-based TITAN X

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    If you think the halo products are what is causing price-hikes, your not looking at the thousands of other variables that effect prices......

    And consoles are about to enter the 'halo products' arena also.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
    Yes,they are actually - the 1000s of other variables are not doing the same to lots of other electronics too.

    What you don't seem to get that literally all of the AMD and Nvidia cards have been pushed up many levels.

    The card at roughly £400 to £450 now is a GTX1070 and not the GTX580.

    The equivalent of the £400ish GTX580 is the £1200 Titan X MK2.

    The equivalent of the sub £300 GTX570 is the GTX1080TI which is going to be probably closer to £600.

    The equivalent of the £200 GTX560TI is the £500 to £600 GTX1080.

    The equivalent of the sub £200 GTX560 is the £350 to £400 GTX1070.

    Same with AMD.

    Nvidia has doubled margins over the last 5 years or so - they are more than what Apple has.

    Lots of enthusiasts keep making excuses for AMD and Nvidia and this is why we are in this state.

    Imagine if Apple even tried jacking up the price of their products by 2.5X to 3X and see what would happen.

    Companies like Nikon and Canon have not done that even with full frame cameras with huge expensive sensors.

    The price of medium format backs and cameras has dropped too and they have very expensive chips to make in them and cannot afford that many defects.

    The same goes with the cost of things like cooled CCD cameras in research which are low volume and niche products and so on.

    PC enthusiasts just love making excuses for these companies.

    Next time they should not complain if bread goes up by 2.5X in 5 years or the cost of milk.

    Or your car.

    Petrol.

    All of those industries create more jobs here. 10s of 1000s of jobs affected in the oil prices due to lower oil prices - maybe if we paid 10% or 20% more for a litre of petrol it might help save some of them?? People won't do that - so why are they defending such price increases for blasted graphics cards by over 100% then??

    So that JHH or Lisa Su can get another million dollar bonus and buy another Porsche??

    These are mass produced products and just because company PR wants to jack up prices - fiddlesticks to them!!

    None of these things are made in this country and they create very few jobs,so why do I honestly care about some bloke or gal in China or the US making more money??

    Why don't we then pay more for stuff made here so we can have more people in work.

    Yeah,nobody could care about that!

    Instead many are quite happy to accept two to three times price increases for graphics cards but would be annoyed if the price of milk doubled from £1 to £2 for a 4 pint bottle,even if it saved many dairy farmers in this country!
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 22-07-2016 at 06:10 PM.

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    Re: Nvidia launches the Pascal GPU-based TITAN X

    I just paid equivalent to $1100 for my two Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 Gaming (in Thailand)....

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    Re: Nvidia launches the Pascal GPU-based TITAN X

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    The problem is, you can't expect anything else.

    If they score "card A" 92% and "card B" is faster in every way......then it seems harsh to rate it lower due to price....unless of course it's a VFM score (which does seem to be lacking from many reviews these days)

    Of course, if you know what you want the card to do and what you expect from it, you can weight that score yourself but a reviewer cannot. For instance, if you had a 1280x768 display the Titan X VFM would be near-zero. If you wanted it for a compute-cluster, then suddenly VFM is high. The price is highly subjective from the view-point of a purchaser and it should be left to them to decide what is too much to pay....not a reviewer who will always weight it from their perspective and then slant the review/score accordingly.
    Or they can call out the pricing as being mental just like some of the mental silly edition cards 10 years ago,and that the pricing increase is getting ridiculous. They seemed to have quietly ignored the fact that in six years the top end Nvidia card with a 500MM2+ GPU has gone up from $500 to $1200.

    Edit!!

    Compare that to so many other consumer electronic products,that is just a mental increase in price.

    It appears graphics cards seem to be in their little bubble.
    There will likely be a pro application for this card as many times before it. Most likely aimed at content creation types who ALSO game. Think indie game dev (maya, 3dsmax, blender etc), visualization crap, adobe cuda stuff (Premiere AE) etc. Have you looked at the price of a top quadro/tesla? If this is anywhere near the usage of M6000 you could buy TWO of these and still save $1600 for the rest of your PC...LOL. You don't seem to understand it's either going to be sold to these people or people who just seem to have the cash to burn to have the fastest solution out there in a single card. This card will likely be the first truly capable 4K card. That extra 20-25% might get most games to play without turning details down. For some people that means a lot. If this has a pro application, its easy to buy this and LOL. A poor content creator looking at a $4000 M6000 could build a KING PC with two of these for the same cost, or even less fortunate could simply buy one and laugh about saving $2800 and get M6000 perf while only losing nvidia support and 1/2 mem, which for many is not a big deal. I'm guessing this is aimed at content creation not fp64 but who knows. We'll know in a 10 days or so I guess.

    http://www.tomsitpro.com/articles/nvidia-quadro-m6000,2-898-2.html
    Hopefully toms or someone will run some tests in blender/3dmsax/maya/cad 3d stuff etc to see how close it gets (or passes) m6000 in some stuff. M6000 debut was $5000. Even at $4000 it's a tough pill to swallow for many. I suspect these will sell as fast as Nvidia can make them if it does well in some of this stuff. It would be a no-brainer for many.

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