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Thread: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

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    NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Adding to the pressure, the industry is working through a 2D- to 3-NAND transition.
    Read more.

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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    So happy I got my Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB when it was near its cheapest price.

    It's not often I'm lucky that way. Usually I'm "lucky" (as in: the exact opposite).

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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    There's always some bull#### excuse for tech companies to raise prices.

    If demand is outpacing supply, it's because that's the way they want it...just the same as the oil industry.

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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Yeah these prices have been increasing steadily all year... parts I bought in January are now literally twice the price and it's stupid.

    While some of it may be down to mobile phones etc to me it seems more like a case of 'less pc bits being sold' so lets price gouge our current items instead... which ultimately results in less people buying....

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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Just bought like 6 ssds with the season's promotions of BF and cyber. I regret nothing. Last year I was thinking the prices will drop in like 6 months on the SanDisk Ultra II 480Gb. The price kept the same a year later so I broke the bank this year expecting the prices will not go down anytime soon. These news are welcome

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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    Yeah these prices have been increasing steadily all year... parts I bought in January are now literally twice the price and it's stupid.
    #brexit

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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Did they not say this on this very page 6 months again.

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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Quote Originally Posted by aniilv View Post
    #brexit
    yes brexit was the cause of the increases.... even though most of the increase happened BEFORE brexit happened....

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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Quote Originally Posted by aniilv View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    Yeah these prices have been increasing steadily all year... parts I bought in January are now literally twice the price and it's stupid.
    #brexit
    Yep. You Brits should have thought about it much harder before Brexit-ing. Haven't seen much of a price rise in my part of the world.

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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Quote Originally Posted by preter_s View Post
    Yep. You Brits should have thought about it much harder before Brexit-ing. Haven't seen much of a price rise in my part of the world.
    That makes sense. Let's determine the entire political and economic future of our country based on NAND orices. Where's the rolleyes smiley when I need it?

    Believe it or not, SOME things are more important than SSD prices.

    Besides, to the extent that SSD prices are being determined by exchange rate changes since the Brexit vote, it is only reflecting what most economists said months earlier, which was that the pound was over-valued.

    I did some dollar conversions exactly (to the day) one month before the Brexit vote, and the dollar rate today is about 11% down on that. Mid-rates were 1.4482, down to 1, 2845 today, meaning $0.1637 down, which is 11.3%. Economists were calling for 15-20%, and while the pound did drop that far immediately after the vote, it has since recoved a fair bit, not least due to the utter absence of the economic Armageddon that some had predicted, snd in fact a barrage of modest but unexpectedly good economic data -so far.

    So, when economists actually wanted a drop in exchange rates for economic benefits, and the Brexit vote achieved that, and SO FAR the impact has been broadly benefjcial, such as modestly growing exports, then evrn if these prices are due to exchange rates, it's one enormous stretch to say Brexit was a mistake based on that.

    The Brexit effect on the UK's economy, and wealth, will ONLY become clear after many years. Short-term, some negative impact is likely but long-term, there's no reason that trading with the 170-ish countries that aren't in the EU, on OUR terms not EU terms, shouldn't compensate, or more than compensate, for any losses in EU trade, if indeed that's what happens.

    Many of the primary reasons for Brexit were not even economic, and large numbers of people did indeed think carefully, and decided, on the whole, we prefer OUT. Nothing I've seen yet has changed my mind. Besides, the eU would be better off worrying about Italian banks, sclerotic growth, huge youth unemployment, a near-bankrupt Greece, its own immigration problems, the persistent march of far-left and far-right extremism and "populism" than about Brexit.
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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    @Saracen,

    Yer missin the point innit? Obviously one who voted for Brexit huh?

    You Brits have been paying way higher prices even before Brexit (just compare the prices of tech with that across the pond). Now you are gonna pay even more.

    It ain't gonna be just SSD prices,lol! Its gonna be everything else.

    Considering that you have much the same problems in the UK, its kinda ironic that you are pointing fingers at how "the eU ... would be better off worrying about ... banks, sclerotic growth, huge youth unemployment, a near-bankrupt ... ... own immigration problems, the persistent march of far-left and far-right extremism and populism”.

    The pound was over-valued because your economy is uncompetitive with the rest of the world. It had nothing to do with Europe cos you have always had your own currency! Now you are uncompetitive without the economic crutch that is the EU. There is no such thing as a free lunch just by devaluing your currency (or letting it devalue).

    It's not even the economists who want any exchange rates to change - lol! Its the market's assessment of how much your currency (& nation) is worth until you start pulling your own weight! That's why now you have to pay the world a lot more for everything, G.E.D.D.I.T? That's why the rest of the world are laughing at Europe & Brexit. The same way we are laughing at US and Trump...

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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Ignoring VAT, UK and US prices are not dissimilar.

    As for the EU being an economic crutch for the UK, generally it is the reverse as the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget.

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uplo...-Iain-Begg.pdf

    And the Euro isn't doing too well against the US dollar either, so the apparent advantageous prices you appear to have may be short lived.
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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    As for the EU being an economic crutch for the UK, generally it is the reverse as the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget.
    Yes the UK is a net contributor to the budget, but the benefits we accrue isn't simply the money we get from EU spending programmes. You'd be ignoring the various benefits of access to the single market, for example. However, this is all getting off topic.

    Manufacturers will eventually get over their transitions to the next generation and realise the production potential available with the new technology; it's a matter of when, not if. NAND production is still profitable, and as long as it remains so there will be sufficient capacity put in place to meet demand. Price rises are merely a normal market signal to invest in more capacity; we just expect inexorable price reductions because we're used to the impact of evolving technology. This hasn't gone away, but is masked in the short term by other factors.

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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Quote Originally Posted by preter_s View Post
    @Saracen,

    Yer missin the point innit? Obviously one who voted for Brexit huh?

    You Brits have been paying way higher prices even before Brexit (just compare the prices of tech with that across the pond). Now you are gonna pay even more.

    It ain't gonna be just SSD prices,lol! Its gonna be everything else.

    Considering that you have much the same problems in the UK, its kinda ironic that you are pointing fingers at how "the eU ... would be better off worrying about ... banks, sclerotic growth, huge youth unemployment, a near-bankrupt ... ... own immigration problems, the persistent march of far-left and far-right extremism and populism”.

    The pound was over-valued because your economy is uncompetitive with the rest of the world. It had nothing to do with Europe cos you have always had your own currency! Now you are uncompetitive without the economic crutch that is the EU. There is no such thing as a free lunch just by devaluing your currency (or letting it devalue).

    It's not even the economists who want any exchange rates to change - lol! Its the market's assessment of how much your currency (& nation) is worth until you start pulling your own weight! That's why now you have to pay the world a lot more for everything, G.E.D.D.I.T? That's why the rest of the world are laughing at Europe & Brexit. The same way we are laughing at US and Trump...
    Of course it's not just SSD prices. This thread, however, is about NAND, and SSDs are a major user of it.

    As for economic problems, the UK has it's own share and the economy is a long way from perfect. One major problem is the kevel of consumer debt, and another perhaps bigger is a productivity malaise. There is also a persistent deficit issue, despite attemots to eliminate it, and something of an imbalance between economic sectors, especially with manufacturing. However, our problems are very different from that of many parts if the EU, and especially that of much of the Med and southern parts of the EU. Growth has been stronger here than elsewhere, employment at records highs and unemployment at the lowest levels in a very long time.

    What we don't have is the problems threatening to tear the eurozone apart, Stress tests on our banks show them in far better shape than many eurozone banks, and about 8 of Italy's banks are bordering on failure, and Monte Dei Paschi's recapitalisation program is in danger of failing.

    Since the 2008 crash, the US economy has grown about 15% (in part due to shale gas,, etc), and even the UKs economy is about 8% lzrger, despite losing about 7% in the crash. The Eurozone economy, as a whole, is no bigger than it was in 2008, post-crash, despite the strength of the German economy, and Italy's is no larger than when it joined the euro in 1999, with industrial production at 1984 levels, unemployment at 11.6% (Eurozone average 9.8%) and youth unemployment at 39%.

    So yes, the EU economy is currently sclerotic, and though we have economic issues, and not trivial ones, they are neither the same problems nor in the same league.

    That's part if the economic argument for Brexit. The UK, since day 1 of our Common Market membership, has had a different focus than the 'core' countries, for whom the EU always was primarily a political project. For the UK, it was a market project, the "common", then "single" market. Which, by the wsy, is STILL not complete today, after some 50 years, and 45 years even of UK membership.

    But it's the rest of it, the fiscal and political integration that causes the problems, npt least because financial and increasing fiscal union, when economic cycles are doing different things both in frequency and amplitude, is a recipe for stress and an inability of centralised policy decisions, like eurozone interests rates, to serve some parts well without hugely damaging other parts.

    So there are good economic reasons for Brexit, most notably that as the EU is dominated by the eurozone, and the UK was outside it with zero chance of us joining in the remotely foreseeable future, leaving the UK marginalised in those decisions.

    As for the EU being an economic crutch, give me a break. In all but one year since the UK joined the EEC, we have been a net contributor, along with a handful of others. We also have a trade deficit with the EU to the tune of tens of billions, per year. And, as EU members, we can't even start to negotiate our own trade deals with any non-EU countries, and as part of the customes union, we are inside a protectionist trade barrier, with the vast bulk of the world that isn't in the EU on the outside.

    Whether Brexit works out to be goid or costly for the economy nobody, and I repeat NOBODY knows. Only time will tell. All sorts of august bodies have made predictions, but that's all they are - predictions. And predictions based on a setvof assumptions plugged into an economic model than can only work on theory of what those econometrists believe, because there has never been a comparative situation allowing them to calibrate predictions against real world outcomes. So change those assumptions, even a fairly small amount, and you change the guess .... sorry, economic forecast.

    Of course, it doesn't help those august bodies, like the IMF, when they predicted doom and gloom (like mass rises in unemployment) as a result of austerity and the polar opposite actually happened. It doesn't inspire confidence in their predictions of Brexit doom and gloom. And so, the people largely discounted "experts", on the basis that recent direct experience proves them distinctly less than expert.

    The Brexit vote was also, in no small part, not about economics. It's partly cultural, partly about national sovereignty, partly emotional. And, IMHO, partly resentment against oyr own governments, of both political persuasions, having joined us up to the political aspects of the EU without ever bothering to get a mandate to do it, and spending 45 years refusing to let us have our say. Part of it was determination to kick the elites now that we have the chance, in the belief that we may never get another chance.

    Brexit was a complex issue, meaning different things to different people, and everybody voted based on what aspects they considered to be the most important, and which side of them they came down on. A coherent, rational case can be made for voting either way, and nobody, on either side, KNOWS whether the result we got was good or bad. Moreover, nobody ever will, because however it works out, we cannot know what would have happened had the vote gone the other way.

    But whatever Brexit was about, it certainly wasn't about these price changes, PART of which is about exchange rates, but part is also about energy costs, and so on. Putting it all diwn to Brexit is utterly simplistic.
    Noli nothis permittere te terere.


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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Quote Originally Posted by chinf View Post
    Yes the UK is a net contributor to the budget, but the benefits we accrue isn't simply the money we get from EU spending programmes. You'd be ignoring the various benefits of access to the single market, for example. However, this is all getting off topic. ....
    While true enough, there's a difference between being a member of the single market, and hence the customs union, and having access to it.

    The UK certainly WILL have access to the single market, post-Brexit. The question is .... on what terms? What (if any) tariffs, and more importantly, what non-tariff barriers? Not as advantageous as being a member certainly. Expecting to leave, and yet retain all the perks of membership, would be naive. And what impact that has on volumes?


    But while that implies likely costs, there are advantages to being outside the customs union too, namely, facilitating barrier-free (or reduced) trade with non-EU countries.

    So for sure, it's a lot more complex than being a net contributor but the fact remains we are a net contributor. For now.
    Noli nothis permittere te terere.


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    Re: NAND flash prices rise fast as demand outpaces supply

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by preter_s View Post
    @Saracen,

    Yer missin the point innit? Obviously one who voted for Brexit huh?

    You Brits have been paying way higher prices even before Brexit (just compare the prices of tech with that across the pond). Now you are gonna pay even more.

    It ain't gonna be just SSD prices,lol! Its gonna be everything else.

    Considering that you have much the same problems in the UK, its kinda ironic that you are pointing fingers at how "the eU ... would be better off worrying about ... banks, sclerotic growth, huge youth unemployment, a near-bankrupt ... ... own immigration problems, the persistent march of far-left and far-right extremism and populism”.

    The pound was over-valued because your economy is uncompetitive with the rest of the world. It had nothing to do with Europe cos you have always had your own currency! Now you are uncompetitive without the economic crutch that is the EU. There is no such thing as a free lunch just by devaluing your currency (or letting it devalue).

    It's not even the economists who want any exchange rates to change - lol! Its the market's assessment of how much your currency (& nation) is worth until you start pulling your own weight! That's why now you have to pay the world a lot more for everything, G.E.D.D.I.T? That's why the rest of the world are laughing at Europe & Brexit. The same way we are laughing at US and Trump...
    Of course it's not just SSD prices. This thread, however, is about NAND, and SSDs are a major user of it.

    As for economic problems, the UK has it's own share and the economy is a long way from perfect. One major problem is the kevel of consumer debt, and another perhaps bigger is a productivity malaise. There is also a persistent deficit issue, despite attemots to eliminate it, and something of an imbalance between economic sectors, especially with manufacturing. However, our problems are very different from that of many parts if the EU, and especially that of much of the Med and southern parts of the EU. Growth has been stronger here than elsewhere, employment at records highs and unemployment at the lowest levels in a very long time.

    What we don't have is the problems threatening to tear the eurozone apart, Stress tests on our banks show them in far better shape than many eurozone banks, and about 8 of Italy's banks are bordering on failure, and Monte Dei Paschi's recapitalisation program is in danger of failing.

    Since the 2008 crash, the US economy has grown about 15% (in part due to shale gas,, etc), and even the UKs economy is about 8% lzrger, despite losing about 7% in the crash. The Eurozone economy, as a whole, is no bigger than it was in 2008, post-crash, despite the strength of the German economy, and Italy's is no larger than when it joined the euro in 1999, with industrial production at 1984 levels, unemployment at 11.6% (Eurozone average 9.8%) and youth unemployment at 39%.

    So yes, the EU economy is currently sclerotic, and though we have economic issues, and not trivial ones, they are neither the same problems nor in the same league.

    That's part if the economic argument for Brexit. The UK, since day 1 of our Common Market membership, has had a different focus than the 'core' countries, for whom the EU always was primarily a political project. For the UK, it was a market project, the "common", then "single" market. Which, by the wsy, is STILL not complete today, after some 50 years, and 45 years even of UK membership.

    But it's the rest of it, the fiscal and political integration that causes the problems, npt least because financial and increasing fiscal union, when economic cycles are doing different things both in frequency and amplitude, is a recipe for stress and an inability of centralised policy decisions, like eurozone interests rates, to serve some parts well without hugely damaging other parts.

    So there are good economic reasons for Brexit, most notably that as the EU is dominated by the eurozone, and the UK was outside it with zero chance of us joining in the remotely foreseeable future, leaving the UK marginalised in those decisions.

    As for the EU being an economic crutch, give me a break. In all but one year since the UK joined the EEC, we have been a net contributor, along with a handful of others. We also have a trade deficit with the EU to the tune of tens of billions, per year. And, as EU members, we can't even start to negotiate our own trade deals with any non-EU countries, and as part of the customes union, we are inside a protectionist trade barrier, with the vast bulk of the world that isn't in the EU on the outside.

    Whether Brexit works out to be goid or costly for the economy nobody, and I repeat NOBODY knows. Only time will tell. All sorts of august bodies have made predictions, but that's all they are - predictions. And predictions based on a setvof assumptions plugged into an economic model than can only work on theory of what those econometrists believe, because there has never been a comparative situation allowing them to calibrate predictions against real world outcomes. So change those assumptions, even a fairly small amount, and you change the guess .... sorry, economic forecast.

    Of course, it doesn't help those august bodies, like the IMF, when they predicted doom and gloom (like mass rises in unemployment) as a result of austerity and the polar opposite actually happened. It doesn't inspire confidence in their predictions of Brexit doom and gloom. And so, the people largely discounted "experts", on the basis that recent direct experience proves them distinctly less than expert.

    The Brexit vote was also, in no small part, not about economics. It's partly cultural, partly about national sovereignty, partly emotional. And, IMHO, partly resentment against oyr own governments, of both political persuasions, having joined us up to the political aspects of the EU without ever bothering to get a mandate to do it, and spending 45 years refusing to let us have our say. Part of it was determination to kick the elites now that we have the chance, in the belief that we may never get another chance.

    Brexit was a complex issue, meaning different things to different people, and everybody voted based on what aspects they considered to be the most important, and which side of them they came down on. A coherent, rational case can be made for voting either way, and nobody, on either side, KNOWS whether the result we got was good or bad. Moreover, nobody ever will, because however it works out, we cannot know what would have happened had the vote gone the other way.

    But whatever Brexit was about, it certainly wasn't about these price changes, PART of which is about exchange rates, but part is also about energy costs, and so on. Putting it all diwn to Brexit is utterly simplistic.
    @Saracen,

    Brexit made the UK the butt of the world's jokes. You had the great benefits of the EU while having your own currency. Yet you cut off your nose to spite the face.

    Brexit was about the poorly informed and ignorant voting with their emotions instead of their brains (and knowledge), not realising how complex the issues are. Brits just thought get out and the whole world will be rosier. They thought that no-brainer-one-liner posts on Facebook and tweets would be enough to base their voting decisions.

    How many Brits really had the information, let alone the knowledge, let alone the wisdom?

    Only a small percentage of the people have the education, information, knowledge and wisdom to comprehend the issues. You think the yobs, chavs, chavettes, druggies & perpetually drunk/wasted etc. get it?

    The simple way to look at it - its all about cost-benefit analysis. Giving up EU membership was foolish. Its giving up a great benefit. That is why the British pound fell. You just lost a great benefit/deal/crutch.

    The EU has said that the UK will never have the benefits of the EU once they exit. So its gone forever!

    It means that the value of all things Brit have fallen. The value of your labour force and therefore salary. The forecasted UK GDP decline too.

    That means all things imported will be more expensive, geddit?! From eggs to flour to meat.
    You thought this was about NAND only? Anybody who thought this was about NAND... just didn't get it.

    But the Brexiters never got close to getting it. Not even this simple stuff. This hits the commoners (i.e. them) more than it will hit the super rich. Because the commoner spends a proportionally larger percentage of their income on such basic necessities.

    Now that foreign funds are coming in to buy up "cheaper" UK property, the Brits will find themselves losing their homes or being priced out. Think about the poor first time home buyers eh?

    That is the real Brexit for the sorry folks who didn't even understand the basics but thought they knew how to vote. & you thought it was only about NAND!?

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