QOTW: Which music streaming service do you use?

[peterb]

I'd say eclectic as I have enjoyed artists from Japan, Latin American and Africa as well as those from UK, Europe and North America.

ETA: In terms of format, I'm a vinyl person. I was fortunate enough to have really good Physics teachers who thought vinyl was a better format than CD and I read a number of HiFi magazines confirming this as well. In fact, this again, has reminded me of previous painful arguments with idiots who thought CDs were superior just because marketing told them so. Nowadays, the position is now fully accepted but it wasn't the case even ten years ago.

Thank you - I was interested in your use of the word connoisseur - because you seemed to apply it to music, rather than a type of genre of music. I accept that you may be a connoisseur of (say) Latin American music, but the fact that someone doesn't share your taste for that genre doesn't make their taste ny less valid (although as a connoisseur, you might be expected to have sufficient breadth of knowledge to find something that would have appeal to someone who was a connoisseur of (say) Amy Whitehouse or Handel or whatever). I would argue it would be difficult to claim to be a music connoisseur because of the breadth of musical endeavour, from Hip hop through to Gregorian chant.

With record to format - a far more difficult question. Vinyl has a certain sensuous appeal, taking a disc out of the sleeve and placing it on a turntable is a very deliberate act, and quite tactile, unlike a CD which is less so (and playing an MP3 or other 'formless' medium even less so)

As for better - well, there are so many criteria. A CD or purely digital medium is a vastly superior to vinyl if you want to play music in a car - which is hardly an ideal acoustic environment anyway.

In terms of acoustics, so much depends on the equipment used both in the production and recording phase and also that used for playback. A well mastered recording is will give equally good results on either vinyl (which is limited in frequency response by the mass of the cartridge) and dynamic range (limited by the physical size of the groove) or CD (where frequency range is limited by the sampling frequency and dynamic range by the number of bits on the DAC. But recording for either media requires a degree of appropriate signal processing to overcome the limitations of both media types.

I would certainly argue that mp3 as a lossy encoding format is inferior to something like FLAC but again the final result depends on the quality of the encoder and decoder.

And the weakest link in the entire music reproduction system is probably the listener, where what sounds best is as much a subjective. After all if you have spent £20,000 on a setup, the owner is never going to admit that a £5,000 set up sounds as good.

It is very much a subjective call.

[Top_gun]

I'm a criminal? Please explain what you mean by this. Genuinely baffled by this comment. I too have expensive tastes in certain items, but I'm certainly not in any way jealous of others' possessions.

Congratulations. I bet you're the talk of the town.

RE 'rudeness', I give as good as I receive on that front, I'm afraid. Any rudeness is a direct response to your own.

Did I say you were criminal? No, I said you have the same mentality, ie, when a person perceive someone have nice things or better you, then your instincts is to drag that person down. In the case of the man in the video he committed a criminal offence through criminal damage but really the motivating factor is to bring the owner. In your case, because I said I was a connoisseur you're hell bent in dishing out as much disparaging language in an hopeless attempt to bring me down. Same behaviour the only difference is there are laws for criminal damage.

Sorry, you're confusing reality (real life experience) with rudeness. I've seen it many times before, where they mouth off but when it comes to backing it then one realise how shallow they really are. So far you've bought nothing to the table in terms proper debate material. Crying crocodile tears just because you're out of depth shows you are incapable in having a rational and grown up debate.

As for you having expensive tastes then I believe that YOU as a marketing victim will always overpay the odds for goods. I, on the other hand, underpay because I understand inherent value from marketing value. For example, I paid £270 for a pair jeans from an unknown brand but I knew, as a connoisseur, I was buying exceptional quality for a reasonable. Later, the marketing got involved after likes of David Beckham and Brad Pitt started wearing the brand and price of the clothing nearly tripled in price.

Like I said, I'm all for a protracted debate yet I haven't hit level two. Can you finally accept you're out of your depth, bitbucket?

[Top_gun]

Thank you - I was interested in your use of the word connoisseur - because you seemed to apply it to music, rather than a type of genre of music. I accept that you may be a connoisseur of (say) Latin American music, but the fact that someone doesn't share your taste for that genre doesn't make their taste ny less valid (although as a connoisseur, you might be expected to have sufficient breadth of knowledge to find something that would have appeal to someone who was a connoisseur of (say) Amy Whitehouse or Handel or whatever). I would argue it would be difficult to claim to be a music connoisseur because of the breadth of musical endeavour, from Hip hop through to Gregorian chant.

The word connoisseur is a term regularly used in my circles for a number of decades. Given the pedigree of the music then I feel it's the right term to use. If others disagree then it's their problem not mine. I don't dismiss other connoisseurs for having different tastes to mine. I enjoy their thoughts and insights. I just can't stand the clueless idiots who feels the need to correct me based on their own limitations.

With record to format - a far more difficult question. Vinyl has a certain sensuous appeal, taking a disc out of the sleeve and placing it on a turntable is a very deliberate act, and quite tactile, unlike a CD which is less so (and playing an MP3 or other 'formless' medium even less so)

As for better - well, there are so many criteria. A CD or purely digital medium is a vastly superior to vinyl if you want to play music in a car - which is hardly an ideal acoustic environment anyway.

In terms of acoustics, so much depends on the equipment used both in the production and recording phase and also that used for playback. A well mastered recording is will give equally good results on either vinyl (which is limited in frequency response by the mass of the cartridge) and dynamic range (limited by the physical size of the groove) or CD (where frequency range is limited by the sampling frequency and dynamic range by the number of bits on the DAC. But recording for either media requires a degree of appropriate signal processing to overcome the limitations of both media types.

I would certainly argue that mp3 as a lossy encoding format is inferior to something like FLAC but again the final result depends on the quality of the encoder and decoder.

And the weakest link in the entire music reproduction system is probably the listener, where what sounds best is as much a subjective. After all if you have spent £20,000 on a setup, the owner is never going to admit that a £5,000 set up sounds as good.

It is very much a subjective call.

I heard various arguments amongst the audiophiles about what constitutes good sound quality but what was quite clear was the Digital to Analogue converter limitations. I have listened to high end rigs costing thousands so at least I know what to listen for in terms of sound quality.

As for the last sentence: "After all if you have spent £20,000 on a setup, the owner is never going to admit that a £5,000 set up sounds as good." I recall conversation with a HiFi dealer after he spent tens of thousands on pounds in order to improve the sound but was never ever satisfied. I would never ever say a £5000 set up is as good as £20,000 because I know there are other elements at play such as detail, sound stage, texture and so forth. I heard those differences personally myself though if you listen to crap then you would hear crap and no system can ever improve the sound no matter how much you pay!

No one as ever put their head above the parapet to say flac is superior vinyl. I believe flac is the future, particularly because a number of high end manufacturers is converging to computer audio but I very much doubt a high end flac set up will trump an an analogue one.

[Saracen]

I'm a criminal?


RE 'rudeness', I give as good as I receive on that front, I'm afraid. Any rudeness is a direct response to. your own.

Any "rudeness" needs to stop .... for either side.

[bitbucket]

Did I say you were criminal? No, I said you have the same mentality

*Scratches head*. Moving on...

I paid £270 for a pair jeans from an unknown brand but I knew, as a connoisseur, I was buying exceptional quality for a reasonable.

Frankly this isn't the point - this was never about your jeans or the quality of the goods that I choose to purchase as a 'marketing victim' (another wild accusation, there). This was about music and your attitude towards my taste in music, of which you had no insight into at the time you criticized it as being 'commercialized'. The point was and still remains that your taste in music production is entirely subjective - you've failed to present me with any information to suggest otherwise.

Tldr; my mind hasn't changed on the matter. A connoisseur of music (if one can truly exist, as peterb points out) can't expect to be taken seriously by throwing mud at anything that doesn't match his or her particular tastes. This, in fact, makes you quite the opposite of what you claim to be. Dismissing me as a 'clueless idiot' doesn't fit either - it's just rude.

I suggest we agree to disagree. It would appear that neither of us are going to budge on this.

[Top_gun]

*Scratches head*. Moving on...



Frankly this isn't the point - this was never about your jeans or the quality of the goods that I choose to purchase as a 'marketing victim' (another wild accusation, there). This was about music and your attitude towards my taste in music, of which you had no insight into at the time you criticized it as being 'commercialized'. The point was and still remains that your taste in music production is entirely subjective - you've failed to present me with any information to suggest otherwise.

Tldr; my mind hasn't changed on the matter. A connoisseur of music (if one can truly exist, as peterb points out) can't expect to be taken seriously by throwing mud at anything that doesn't match his or her particular tastes. This, in fact, makes you quite the opposite of what you claim to be. Dismissing me as a 'clueless idiot' doesn't fit either - it's just rude.

I suggest we agree to disagree. It would appear that neither of us are going to budge on this.

Dear bitbucket, I dealt with people like you in the real world many times before when it comes to either discussing clothing or music. The problem here is I recognise your limitations easily but your limitations makes it more difficult to understand my position. There's no point in getting solace from Peterb. He was never been in that inner circle and can only give his view on what a connoisseur is based on his own limitation and a dictionary definition. It also seems factual information given here has gone over your head and you're only partaking in insults, playing ignorant when it suits you, slinging mud from the outset and then make groundless accusation that I was being rude. By all means I love a grown up debate but I feel you have the means to do so based on your limitations.

As for your suggestion for us to agree to disagree, no chance! I recognise your limitations twenty five years ago.

[virtuo]

As a connoisseur of pointless internet arguments - I'm recognising limitations of people's ability to stay on topic. So...

I've not seen anyone mention Apple Music here yet, remember a few people saying it was better than Spotify when it came out - they soon went quiet though.

And has anyone been crazy enough to try the reimagined Napster service?

[bitbucket]

As for your suggestion for us to agree to disagree, no chance!

Suit yourself . This is indeed pointless. I'm out.

Give my regards to the other members of the "inner circle".

[peterb]

There's no point in getting solace from Peterb. He was never been in that inner circle and can only give his view on what a connoisseur is based on his own limitation and a dictionary definition.

Somewhat judgemental of you - and reminds me of Humpty Dumpty in Alice Through the Looking Glass

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

Which re-inforces the earlier impression that you you are only here to sneer at people who don't share your point of view.

[Top_gun]

As a connoisseur of pointless internet arguments - I'm recognising limitations of people's ability to stay on topic. So...

Normally I stay on topic but thanks to bitbucket constant mudslinging which was another indication he was out of his depth. Still I think I combine the on topic conversation while at the same time further my own cause.

[Top_gun]

Somewhat judgemental of you - and reminds me of Humpty Dumpty in Alice Through the Looking Glass

I look forward to reading your memoirs of your involvement in the inner circle then.

[Top_gun]

Somewhat judgemental of you - and reminds me of Humpty Dumpty in Alice Through the Looking Glass


Which re-inforces the earlier impression that you you are only here to sneer at people who don't share your point of view.

I have every right to totally reject your strawman argument because I felt it lacked the real world experience just like bitbucket. Of course you're entitled to your view but it doesn't make it right and nor does it trump my reasoning. I know lots of people who share my views about the music industry and if music is going to improve then it needs to take on board criticism.

[peterb]

I wasn't actually arguing, I was genuinely interested in your point of view. However you seem unable to accept that an alternative point of view is valid and resort to a patronising and somewhat insulting tone when your unsubstantiated assertions are questioned, however benign.

[Top_gun]

I wasn't actually arguing, I was genuinely interested in your point of view. However you seem unable to accept that an alternative point of view is valid and resort to a patronising and somewhat insulting tone when your unsubstantiated assertions are questioned, however benign.

You really clutching at straws with your personal criticism accusation. I simply share the views of a much bigger movement. Really, if you feel insulted and patronised then you have to look at yourself rather than me. I simply saying it as it is and if you don't get it then it's your problem and perhaps delving into your own background will reveal why.

These assertions are nothing new and are generally accepted for the past 30 years or more. In fact, yesterday I had a conversation with a younger chap and he readily understood where I was coming from. He is a DJ and run a record shop in my local area. I didn't have to tell him I was a connoisseur - he knew. Even offered to buy my record collection.

[Saracen]

You really clutching at straws with your personal criticism accusation. I simply share the views of a much bigger movement. Really, if you feel insulted and patronised then you have to look at yourself rather than me. I simply saying it as it is and if you don't get it then it's your problem and perhaps delving into your own background will reveal why.

These assertions are nothing new and are generally accepted for the past 30 years or more. In fact, yesterday I had a conversation with a younger chap and he readily understood where I was coming from. He is a DJ and run a record shop in my local area. I didn't have to tell him I was a connoisseur - he knew. Even offered to buy my record collection.

Alright, ENOUGH.


I've already asked for rudeness to stop, and you haven't got the message and continued with, as Peter put it, a patronising and insulting tone.

My FIRM advice is to either stop posting in this thread, or stop the condescending.

If you don't, I won't ask a third time. I'll simply suspend the account to emphasaise the first two requests.

Oh, and experience telks me that warnings like this often generate an argumentative response from many posters. I wouldn't advise it, I really wouldn't.

[el_tone]

I use Spotify premium plus Bandcamp for anything I want to directly support. I don't particularly like the way money is distributed amongst artists. I would prefer my £10 to go to the artists that I have listened to that month, instead of into a giant pot.