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Thread: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    It's not just the processor that makes amd more attractive at the moment, the whole platform is more economical to buy into than intels, especially if you're someone who can make use of 6 or more cores, 2011 platform motherboards costs more too.

    I just ignore benchmarks like sysmark and the likes these days because it's never accurate to the real world usage and like most benchmarks once you know what to focus a company can rig the results. Hell I probably saw a 10% productivity boost with my old x2 939 just by giving it an ssd to work from so 15% isn't exactly that impressive when you think about it lol

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    Easy to hurry development when you aren't bringing anything new to market!

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Bagpuss View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by marshalex View Post
    What's the point of stepping up the schedules? Unless the new chip performance is going to be drastically improved
    Well Intel have gone on record as saying Coffee Lake will be 15% faster than Kaby Lake in terms of single core IPC, which would give it a combined 20-25% lead over Ryzens single core IPC performance.

    Which would be a significant gap especially in the all important gaming benchmarks.
    Well Intel seem to be saying Kaby Lake is 15% faster than Skylake. In reality the perfromance difference is within the margin of error.

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by fynxer View Post
    Finally some real pressure on Intel, thanks to AMD we can once again enjoy faster development and eventually better prices. The last few years we have only seen like 5-10% increase in real world performance with each generation from Intel, just recently Intel suddenly flagged that Canon Lake would have an 40% increase in performance. This confirms that Intel has been holding back immensely to milk its customers with the same old every year. The coming years will be interesting, we will now get to know how much Intel really has been holding back the last five years.

    It has been practically pointless in upgrading if you've bought anything since core i started in 2011. I bought an i5-2500, was planning on upgrading my system to a 6700k but just bought a second-hand 2700k instead - £160 vs £500-600.

    The only reason I had the non-K was because the K was out of stock. I can't see me upgrading from this for at least another few years.

    The "problem" is GPUs are advancing way more than CPUs, with more and more being done on the graphics iron instead. Plus, consoles will rule the roost for the foreseeable future, as that's where the money is.

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    140w Seems huge against AMD 95w & 65w

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Cr@ig View Post
    140w Seems huge against AMD 95w & 65w
    It does doesn't it....
    I'd hazard a guess and hope AMD can keep up the impressive low wattage which will force Intel's hand
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbykatze View Post
    This sudden leap ahead of their architectures suddenly being available months earlier just tells me that I thought right all along, they were artificially stagnating their development timetables at the cost of their customers because they had no need to.

    Innovation should be for innovations sake, not solely because you are chasing a dollar symbol.

    But hey, I'm naive
    I agree, it should be. But before Ryzen, trying to convince shareholders to invest in 5 new EUV machines when you're already leading the pack would of been difficult (especially when you think how many other divisions it could invest in).

    I'm just thankful for AMD making them pull their finger out.

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    tbh the last time I saw any marked genuine performance increase beyond "Clockspeed Bump", "Minor Optimisations" or "Increased Cache" was when intel stepped up from the Core 2 Duo/Quad to the original Nehalem i7's that they showed off back in '07. Since then there's been naff all innovation at intel and I'm starting to think that maybe the stagnation is not just because of lack of competition, but maybe a lack of engineering talent. Have intel lost some of their designers to the likes of ARM, AMD, nVidia and IBM perhaps?

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by zaph0d View Post
    tbh the last time I saw any marked genuine performance increase beyond "Clockspeed Bump", "Minor Optimisations" or "Increased Cache" was when intel stepped up from the Core 2 Duo/Quad to the original Nehalem i7's that they showed off back in '07. Since then there's been naff all innovation at intel and I'm starting to think that maybe the stagnation is not just because of lack of competition, but maybe a lack of engineering talent. Have intel lost some of their designers to the likes of ARM, AMD, nVidia and IBM perhaps?
    Or perhaps advances have slowed due to the old shrinking methods not working any more, combined with a lot of the silicon being used for iGPU and cost per wafer increasing with each new process, making them want to maximise investment....
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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by zaph0d View Post
    tbh the last time I saw any marked genuine performance increase beyond "Clockspeed Bump", "Minor Optimisations" or "Increased Cache" was when intel stepped up from the Core 2 Duo/Quad to the original Nehalem i7's that they showed off back in '07.
    I don't know, Sandy Bridge was a fair improvement when it launched. I haven't seen a need to upgrade since that point though and with the Intel pricing where it currently sits, it's much more likely I'll go for Ryzen as I'll need to upgrade mobo / ram at the same time. It'll do what I need it to do for gaming, and the extra cores will come in handy for other stuff.

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by chj View Post
    I agree, it should be. But before Ryzen, trying to convince shareholders to invest in 5 new EUV machines when you're already leading the pack would of been difficult (especially when you think how many other divisions it could invest in).

    I'm just thankful for AMD making them pull their finger out.
    That isn't how Intel works. If there were EUV machines worth investing in, then they would do so before the opposition because they have for years been reaping the benefits of a process technology lead. Intel are a manufacturing company above all else, their CPU designs have never been that good but if their silicon is faster than everyone else's then they still win.

    Their problem is that the lead is eroding, so now other foundries are cheaper and nearly as fast. I have to wonder if that is because Intel are no longer investing heavily in plain silicon, perhaps they are diverting funds into things like carbon nanotubes and III/V junctions, things that could take over from silicon when it runs out of steam. IBM have been heading in that direction for some time, Intel won't want to be left behind.

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Cr@ig View Post
    140w Seems huge against AMD 95w & 65w
    Different methods of specifying TDP, with different margins and different takes on silicon. The TDP is a design point - it's intended as a reference point for designing cooling systems. Take a look at some actual power draw figures:

    http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/10...m-zen/?page=10

    The "95W" Ryzen 7 1800X consumes almost 30W more in a CPU-centric load than the "140W" i7 6950X. TDPs are pretty much meaningless when it comes to real world power consumption. Intel is still very good in that regard, even with its "power hungry" HEDT platform...

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Different methods of specifying TDP, with different margins and different takes on silicon. The TDP is a design point - it's intended as a reference point for designing cooling systems. Take a look at some actual power draw figures:

    http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/10...m-zen/?page=10

    The "95W" Ryzen 7 1800X consumes almost 30W more in a CPU-centric load than the "140W" i7 6950X. TDPs are pretty much meaningless when it comes to real world power consumption. Intel is still very good in that regard, even with its "power hungry" HEDT platform...
    In these tests the R7 1800X is below the equivalent Intel HEDT CPUs:

    https://www.computerbase.de/2017-03/...x-1700-test/6/

    Plus Intel really does not have a competitor to the R7 1700.


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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    In these tests the R7 1800X is below the equivalent Intel HEDT CPUs: ...
    Indeed, interesting the difference a workload can make, isn't it OTOH, the multi-core cinebench only puts the intel HEDT 5W higher, not the 45W you might assume from TDPs. I reckon the 140W TDPs Intel have put on the HEDT chips are very conservative - in reality they're probably more like 95W - 100W CPUs.

    That said, you're spot on that Intel don't have anything in the market to compete with the 1700. It sips power like Intel's mainstream desktop platform but handles heavily threaded workloads like the HEDT platform. I'm really looking forward to AMD's X399 platform - if the rumours are true we should see a 140W chip that performs like two 1700's bolted together, and that's going to be huge for HPC and workstation workloads...

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    good job AMD. you have given intel the freedom to gouge its customers 30%+ more than what their processors are really worth. now that ryzen is out, intel will do it again. i love intel fans.

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    Re: Intel hastens CPU and platform updates due to AMD pressure

    Yeah! I'v been waiting for Coffee Lake. So, this is good news for me.

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