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Thread: LG V30 smartphone will boast "largest aperture, clearest lens"

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    Re: LG V30 smartphone will boast "largest aperture, clearest lens"

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Size. End of. If they put a sensor that size in a smartphone something else would have to make room, usually battery or have a big hump which people hate as it won't sit on a table or anything. Plus with the on going fascination with slim phones with tiny bezels (which is STILL what people want) it's not going to happen. Most sensors are made by Sony, they also choose the sizes. Yes from a parts bin but they have made a big push in the LG parts bin to reduce the optical assembly size so it must be for something else to fit in with the room they have in the design
    That's the thing,I don't think it is an excuse they can make. The technology exist for them to be able to do it,but I only realised after looking at the BOM for phones,how little is spent on the camera modules,so my viewpoint is that they got a good deal on the 1/3" sensors(since other companies are now trying to go a bit bigger),so had to engineer a brighter lens to compensate for this otherwise they would be behind the competition.

    They might argue,size,etc but competitors can still ship smallish phones without having to go backwards in sensor size.

    The problem is smartphone sales are starting to slow down,with most of the growth happening in less mature markets(where feature phones are more common and people are more price conscious and China has been opened up a bit so Apple has taken advantage of that but now sales are dropping). The issue is if they go on like this,they will hit the same problem that hit compact cameras when they decided to stop innovating for a long period- people will just keep them longer and longer. It was the same issue then - many of the companies tried cost cutting by moving to smaller sensors,and they whacking up MP counts and we saw what happened there. By the time they stopped doing it was too late.

    I am seeing the same mistakes being repeated here - have you not noticed some of the newer phones have lower MP counts,thats because they tried using MOAR MP as a marketing tool when image quality was getting poorer. They are trying to add pseudo zooms with dual lenses,and it was the same with compacts where they added longer and longer zooms,etc but if someone looks at the latest phone and it seems to be not massively better they will probably wait until another year,etc.

    These companies need to get off their collective backsides and try and innovate as I fear a number of them might actually start to have problems with the phone parts of their companies a few years into the future at this rate,especially with the newer Chinese companies starting to flood the market.

    They won't need to innovate - they will just try and offer what the more expensive companies are doing at a lower price.

    You think OnePlus,Huawei and Lenovo are the only ones - China has loads more companies and they are starting to move outside their country.

    Look at how Chinese designed SOCs are starting to gain traction.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Oh and just to add - can you remember when people tried to make "proper" camera phones? They never sold and were all reduced massively in price to shift them. People want a good camera but usually only to stick the videos/pics on facebook where it kills any quality they had to begin with
    Which a cheapo £100 phone will do,so in the end we agree the "high end" ones are just really crap for what they are??

    But its contradicted by the fact all people go on is the IQ of their camera phone,and are willing to spend £100s more just for a £20 upgrade to the camera module.

    The same people who utterly ignore cheapo phones since the phone is a status symbol and who would get laughed off any tech forum,if they actually suggested to play WoT they needed a £1000 Core i7 7900X at 1080p and dual Titan Xp cards.

    Look at all the lenses,etc companies released for them too - so it seems to be some weird lot of people who want quality,but don't want quality,who want convenience and size but still want to carry around selfie sticks,gimbals,harnesses, phone grips,extension lenses,battery packs,etc which probably is less convenient than buying a proper camera and probably costs more.



    Its almost like the constant 24/7 marketing seems to have an effect!
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 11-08-2017 at 12:04 PM.


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    Re: LG V30 smartphone will boast "largest aperture, clearest lens"

    Aye I'm not arguing but it is still size. Know a dude who works in the phone industry and all people ever mention is size of things like bezels and how thin they are. The industry is littered with decision to reduce the size from Apple with the lightning connector to Samsung with removing home button and putting fingerprint sensor on back. I'd have a 1mm thicker phone for better battery life but it ain't gonna happen. Remember the lg has dual cameras so you need 2 sensors etc. on back as they are separate optical assemblies with differing focal lengths. Reduce the size of the sensor and multiply it by 2 in that case. They will be constrained by the choice of screen as that is one of the biggest costs on the BOM so they will have known the screen size etc. months ago and then have to work around and fit everything into the chassis design they fancy. If they cut battery life too much sales will suffer so they will also know the rough size of battery they are going with months back too. Then they mash it all together as best they can and make it work. Remember the Note 7 fiery fiasco? That was all about making the phone a bit slimmer and we all know how that panned out
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    Re: LG V30 smartphone will boast "largest aperture, clearest lens"

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Aye I'm not arguing but it is still size. Know a dude who works in the phone industry and all people ever mention is size of things like bezels and how thin they are. The industry is littered with decision to reduce the size from Apple with the lightning connector to Samsung with removing home button and putting fingerprint sensor on back. I'd have a 1mm thicker phone for better battery life but it ain't gonna happen. Remember the lg has dual cameras so you need 2 sensors etc. on back as they are separate optical assemblies with differing focal lengths. Reduce the size of the sensor and multiply it by 2 in that case. They will be constrained by the choice of screen as that is one of the biggest costs on the BOM so they will have known the screen size etc. months ago and then have to work around and fit everything into the chassis design they fancy. If they cut battery life too much sales will suffer so they will also know the rough size of battery they are going with months back too. Then they mash it all together as best they can and make it work. Remember the Note 7 fiery fiasco? That was all about making the phone a bit slimmer and we all know how that panned out
    The whole move for thinness ,was dictated by the phone companies in the first place,but that is also getting people annoyed since they also increased screen size massively,which means people also found them difficult to hold,and makes them physically larger. Its no point making such a larger screen if it barely fits in the pocket of anyone who isn't the size of Jeremy Clarkson. Even Apple after moving to large iPhones still made a much smaller line.

    The thing is if they wanted to they could push things,and at least a Chinese company like Lenovo,is trying to push battery size up,and do interesting things with some of their Motorola division(the force with the toughened screen).

    Like I mentioned it does concern me is that many of these larger companies are not addressing the threat of the smaller Chinese OEMs - we have seen in it in other industries,where the incumbents have sat on the laurels,and a prime example is Kodak.

    ATM if I had £500 to £600 to spend on a smartphone,I would probably spend £200 to £300 at most,since I am not seeing anything which would really "wow" me in anyway. Yes,the camera is "better" but not upto £400 better. The only real advantage is OIS,but the issue that is only really useful if taking pictures of static objects in low light with no flash,and poor lighting which TBH is a niche case use for casual snaps. If that is the case,I might as well invest in an RX100 or something similar when I go out.

    It is also something if Chinese OEMs start introducing it into much cheaper models,it might really cause some problems. People might dismiss them right now,but the slow pace of evolution of phones is really giving them a lot of chances.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 11-08-2017 at 12:40 PM.


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    Re: LG V30 smartphone will boast "largest aperture, clearest lens"

    Meh at least there's still innovation in dslr market with sony's backside illumination sensors in the 7rii for exampe. Hopefully in time it'll tickle down to mobile sensors

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    Re: LG V30 smartphone will boast "largest aperture, clearest lens"

    Quote Originally Posted by chj View Post
    Meh at least there's still innovation in dslr market with sony's backside illumination sensors in the 7rii for exampe. Hopefully in time it'll tickle down to mobile sensors
    BSI sensors have been in mobiles for years mate. Was a big selling point in the iPhone 4 with a BSI sensor from Sony. Most mobile sensors are now BSI as it makes for better low light performance
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    Re: LG V30 smartphone will boast "largest aperture, clearest lens"

    Cat the fifth - but you're not the majority market are you? Most people just upgrade when their contract is up and get the best for their money. I have (an admittedly millionairess) friend who just gets the most expensive iphone at upgrade time regardless
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    Re: LG V30 smartphone will boast "largest aperture, clearest lens"

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Cat the fifth - but you're not the majority market are you? Most people just upgrade when their contract is up and get the best for their money. I have (an admittedly millionairess) friend who just gets the most expensive iphone at upgrade time regardless
    Most of my mates own phones under £400,and keep them much longer than two years,and they are only on SIM only contracts,and most of them are techies. The only ones I know who always keep buying the latest phones are people I know who are android or iPhone developers and that makes sense for their work.

    More and more people are moving away from traditional contracts I find now.

    About a decade ago,it made more sense since contracts were only 12 months and you could get a £500+ phone every 12 months or so free or for a small outlay. Now with two year contracts it actually can make more sense to buy a phone SIM free,and go only with a SIM free contract.

    I also know several people who after their phone contract has ended,has just kept the phone and gone SIM free.

    The fact is the figures don't lie,growth in sales is slowing down and lot of the new growth areas are places in the 3rd world which use feature phones and more likely will be more budget limited or will upgrade less often. Chinese companies are starting to emerge in many markets since they offer a lot more features for the price than products from larger incumbents(seen it in Asia for example).

    The problem is if the incumbents don't get off their backsides,in a few years those Chinese companies won't be so small anymore.

    A lack of innovation is only going to affect them - remember what happened when Nokia just stuck to the horrible Symbian for years?? Had a mate who worked there and they even laughed at it.

    Blackberry was the same. All these companies looked bulletproof. Kodak is a prime example of how a huge company didn't innovate.

    As we are on a tech forum,computing has always gone the way of lower cost over time,as it is about commodification.

    Forget phones,people forget that Huawei has come from nowhere to become the BIGGEST provider of network infrastructure in the world.

    Edit!!

    Remember this - Apple and Samsung look bulletproof too,but guess what happened to bulletproof Nokia and Blackberry?? All those loyal fans literally abandoned them.

    Even Apple seemed untouchable in the 1980s and look how things went - they don't have Steve Jobs anymore who did take risks.

    The whole "to big to fail" has been littered with the bodies of large tech companies in the last 50 years.

    Second Edit!!

    Yep,people are keeping phones longer now(at least in the US):

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/people...16-6?r=US&IR=T
    http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/08/tech...ger/index.html
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 11-08-2017 at 01:53 PM.


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