Windows Vista retail doomed unless Microsoft cuts prices?

[Syn]

Vista will be pirated on a massive scale cause of the massive prices!

because of online activation its NOT being pirated on massive scale. Hackers have had the RTM version in their hands since November and yet 2 months later you dont see a pirated copy being shared anyware. The only real hack you got was the Spoof MS server, which basically just tricks your Vista to be talking to a real MS activation server, with that all MS has to do is run an activation check while your lets say doing windows update and your copy gets deactivated.

[Jonny M]

I was thinking XP to SP2. Like with like?

It was like with like. 5 releases inclusive. XP hasn't had 4 "upgrades" to it, so I chose Windows 2000.

But even the features introduced going from XP to SP2 are nothing like the differences between Mac OS releases.

Also yes it is the fault of mac, what have they done to help/encorage them? Where is their feature rich API?

http://developer.apple.com/games/

Epic Games didn't have any trouble making the Unreal Tournament series run on a Mac. It's not the fault of the OS that it doesn't have many games, it's the low install base compared with Windows.

[Aurhinius]

What was the verdict on using imported copies?

[excalibur2]

because of online activation its NOT being pirated on massive scale. Hackers have had the RTM version in their hands since November and yet 2 months later you dont see a pirated copy being shared anyware. The only real hack you got was the Spoof MS server, which basically just tricks your Vista to be talking to a real MS activation server, with that all MS has to do is run an activation check while your lets say doing windows update and your copy gets deactivated.

.....and if you turn updates off? I thought I read somewhere it is illegal for MS to de-activate Vista without your permission (something to do with a sorta privacy law erm maybe it's just in the USA)....you give them permission by choosing updates.

[Syn]

.....and if you turn updates off? I thought I read somewhere it is illegal for MS to de-activate Vista without your permission (something to do with a sorta privacy law erm maybe it's just in the USA)....you give them permission by choosing updates.

you turn the updates off and your copy of Vista will always have all the bugs.

[excalibur2]

you turn the updates off and your copy of Vista will always have all the bugs.

Well agreed if you could only get updates from MS.

[Koolpc]

Well, in all the years i have used XP i have never activated the updates, i don't trust them and i have never ever had an issue / problem! Some people will say that problems will arise but i have been using XP for quite a few years with no problems at all.

There will be many people out there who will do the same with Vista. I know i will when i get it.

[Koolpc]

you turn the updates off and your copy of Vista will always have all the bugs.

You turn on Updates and Vista will always screw you up!

[Splash]

Well, in all the years i have used XP i have never activated the updates, i don't trust them and i have never ever had an issue / problem! Some people will say that problems will arise but i have been using XP for quite a few years with no problems at all.

There will be many people out there who will do the same with Vista. I know i will when i get it.

I'm pretty certain we've had this discussion in the past KoolPC. I assume based on what you've said that you still run no AV either? And you never go on the internet? And don't give me the old "I never go to any dodgy sites so I'm safe" as you should know by now that you don't have to.

Not installing security updates is pretty much asking for your machine to be rooted, end of.

[Koolpc]

I'm pretty certain we've had this discussion in the past KoolPC. I assume based on what you've said that you still run no AV either? And you never go on the internet? And don't give me the old "I never go to any dodgy sites so I'm safe" as you should know by now that you don't have to.

Not installing security updates is pretty much asking for your machine to be rooted, end of.

I do run an AV = AVG.
I do surf the Net, all the time.
I never vists 'dodgy' websites either.

The 'myth' that you 'have' to install updates is rubbish. I have used XP since SP2 was released and i have 'NEVER EVER' had a problem!! What more can i say? I haven't. If you feel 'Safer' having the updates then good for you. I am on the net quite a bit with my job too and never had an issue!

[kempez]

Fair enough Bob, I know that being an enthusiast myself (therefopre needing a personal Retail Vista) and someone who has to foot the business cost of Retail Vista I'm pretty pissed on both fronts.

It's damn expensive

And I agree that Microsoft is alienating the people it should be supporting

[excalibur2]

I do run an AV = AVG.
I do surf the Net, all the time.
I never vists 'dodgy' websites either.

The 'myth' that you 'have' to install updates is rubbish. I have used XP since SP2 was released and i have 'NEVER EVER' had a problem!! What more can i say? I haven't. If you feel 'Safer' having the updates then good for you. I am on the net quite a bit with my job too and never had an issue!

Well you have argued against yourself by saying you have installed winxp "sp2", so I would assume Vista will have an upgrade, as it's new, and it would be worth having.
But if you don't trust MS updates e.g. putting spyware on your computer, you could get the next Vista update from a trusted source other than MS.

[Koolpc]

Well you have argued against yourself by saying you have installed winxp "sp2", so I would assume Vista will have an upgrade, as it's new, and it would be worth having.
But if you don't trust MS updates e.g. putting spyware on your computer, you could get the next Vista update from a trusted source other than MS.

Vista will be worth having. It looks like a nice OS.

[Splash]

Well you have argued against yourself by saying you have installed winxp "sp2", so I would assume Vista will have an upgrade, as it's new, and it would be worth having.
But if you don't trust MS updates e.g. putting spyware on your computer, you could get the next Vista update from a trusted source other than MS.

Touché excalibur2, however I'm a little puzzled by your second statement. If you don't trust the people with full access to the code to be able to patch it properly how do you expect a "trusted" (would be interested in how you define this) third party to?

As for KoolPC it's clear that we're going to have to agree to disagree. I hope for your sake that you're not part of the botnet sending out massive amounts of spam at present. You might want to do a little web-searching on "Windows XP SP2 vulnerabilities" though.

A final thought - if the Windows Updates are such a waste of time why would Microsoft pour so much cash into them? Would you run "apt-get update" on your debian box?

EDIT - people who haven't already really should read this thread

[excalibur2]

Vista will be worth having. It looks like a nice OS.

Well I've been running Ultimate trial for about 6 weeks now and so far I can't find a good reason to use it, in fact my old win95 norton file manager that I love just wont work properly in compatible mode.
I've crashed every MS OS system so far, but haven't tested Vista out yet...if it passes then indeed it is a worthy OS.
But I suppose over the months comparisons will be made with winxp on Vista's advantages and a case will be made for a must have (or not).

[Koolpc]

Touché excalibur2, however I'm a little puzzled by your second statement. If you don't trust the people with full access to the code to be able to patch it properly how do you expect a "trusted" (would be interested in how you define this) third party to?

As for KoolPC it's clear that we're going to have to agree to disagree. I hope for your sake that you're not part of the botnet sending out massive amounts of spam at present. You might want to do a little web-searching on "Windows XP SP2 vulnerabilities" though.

A final thought - if the Windows Updates are such a waste of time why would Microsoft pour so much cash into them? Would you run "apt-get update" on your debian box?

I didn't download SP2. It came with the XP-Pro disc i had.
Goodness knows why Microsoft pour cash into all these needles updates. A lot, if all are needless. Like i said before, i have not had one issue by not downloading the updates. I am not saying you shouldn't download them, that is a personal choice.

I am not going to argue about it. Do what you want. It works for me not to download the updates.