Force Feed Back vs None

[Zak33]

*note....Dak....this aint aimed at you, but do join in *

I flew for a few hours yesterday, with a mate, on a LAN, and we swapped joysticks back and forth...

My Cyborg 3d Platinum and Saitek Cyborg 3d Force.

First...you gotta fidle with the settings on the force to get a "spring to centre" action...or it flops like a spanner in a bucket

Once that was sussed...comparison....

I cant feel the on-set of a stall, be it deliberate or trying to turn on the edge of one, any better WITH feedback than without... the screen shake and wind turbulence are still a better feeling.

The force feedback has a floppy dead zone....probably just takes time to grasp

The feedback on take off is excellent BUT puts me right off

Its not as accurate in action....not as smooth.

The spring, once set, is not as strong as a Cyborg Plat/Gold

So...all in all....gonna take me ages to get into this beast...which is a shame cos I thought it would be a move forward.

and NO DAK ITS NOT YOUR FAULT and NO I DONT WANT MY MONEY BACK and NO ITS NOT FOR SALE....

I shall persevere cos I did with the game, so I shall with the hardware.

But VEF......can I trust it.....dunno yet.

What do you lot think...? I know Tumble likes his one

[Russ]

the times ive been flying, and we have down controled stall's (scary D you cant move the steering coloum easily anyway, you have to bloomin FORCE it. rudder will move quite easily however. so i wouldnt expect force feed back off a stall. just my 2p.

[Tumble]

I really do like it.. make sure you have the latest drivers installed tho - they do make the feedback much more subtle. I've got everything - all the gain settings maxed out and I can pretty much feel everything going on. I can tell when the aircraft is trimmed properly for example, cos the "dead zone" gets bigger, and the stick doesn't push back at you so hard when you change direction... what a lot of people don't get with this game is the ffb transmits what the CONTROL SURFACES are doing, so if the whole thing's rattling, but your control surfaces aren't, the stick won't be moving so much. I don't find mine any less responsive tho compared to the cyborg platinum I used last summer at the LAN, but it undoubtedly has a completely different feel to it. The stick itself is slightly chunkier round the handgrip than the platinum too - maybe that's why it feels a bit sluggish??

[[GSV]Trig]

I hate it, tried it a few times but cant get on with it, its a joystick for a mans game not a bloody sex toy for women....

[Zak33]

Russ and Tumbles input seems to be aimed at the same thing....its me mistaking what toexpect.....its the control surfaces then?

Trig....I love you and would dearly love to assist you in the instertion of the aforementioned sex aid .....

to be honest.....I have just got to try harder...again.....

but switching back to my Cyborg was just divine...

shall continue un-abashed and try to remember what Tumbles pointed out..its the control surfaces NOT the aircraft that I can feel.

Tell ya what DOES pee me off tho in the set up/config utitilty the joystick reaches all the further corners of the box.......now on most new joysticks, the joystick prevents you reaching those points....it kinda ROUNDS THEM OFF...I read about it a while ago and noticed it a few times.....if a joysticks HORIZONTAL movement is at maximum at left or right WHY would it have a further travel just cos it was in a corner of a box...? It shouldn't.....which means when you spiral or barrelroll, and use the far corners of the joysticks movement on a CYBORG you can do it with impunity..... but with a Feedback it WILL reach the corners and therefore....STALL....dead

Funny huh?

[TiG]

What you describe there is a big problem Zak, its all about coding, and its funny how hardware make difference like that. However putting the joystick in the corner equates to more input and will potentially cause worse stalls etc.

I'll try and equate this to a game everyone must play, and thats quake 3, most people in quake 3 who are any good run diagonally, by doing this they move at an increased rate, you can move at speed 2 forward, speed 2 sideways, but if you do both at the same time you actually move at speed of 2.82 to reach that same place. This means you can jump further if you do this as you turn while doing this and get your wonderful circle jump.

Same with what you are doing with that joystick, you are putting more input onto the stick, it will report extremeties of the stick being much further relatively and therefore will be more likely to stall.

I could go on about stuff like this till the cows come home...
But i'll stop there for the moment.

TiG

[Zak33]

no mate...you aint gotta stop :0 its EXACTLY what Imeant....

BUT newer joysticks, your Cyborg included DONT ALLOW it.....you cant do it...

but this one DOES allow it......if I can tame it...it will be good....deliberate stalls are a very usefull tool......and they are often hard in stuff like 153's etc.....

I shall persevere....

TiG..this LAN box/router is just the finest thing in the world...ever

million thanks

[Dakaras]

Hehe

Exactly the reverse of what happened to me, Ive always used FFB and hated my X45 with a passion for a good few weeks due to lack off feedback...Wouldnt switch from this for the world now, though if I went to a single stick rather than Stick and Throttle Id be back to FFB like a shot. Guess its what your used to as I did exactly 0 configuring or fiddling and ran it out of the box.