Great Aces who are yours?

[Dakaras]

Of course a very objective thread, depends on where you are from and what you read but im interested to know who you consider your top 5 aces and why?

Mine in no order are

Oswald Boelcke WW1 Germany The Father of Aircombat Tactics where he lead others followed.

Adolf Galland WW2 Germany The hunter and master of his machine, he was tactically brillant and an excellent shot.

James Edgar Johnson WW2 Top British Ace Another master of the hunt and the deflection shot. Only once damaged in combat.

Pat Pattle WW2 South Africa Flying first outdated Gladiators against 1st Italy then the mighty 109 and 110 Pattle was the natural pilot, there was no man and machine they were as 1.

Douglas Bader WW2 Britain A strong case could be argued for Dogsbody to be the top ace of all time, if shear bloodymindedness and determination were the only factors to be considered then he would win hands down, add to that his undoubted ability to lead and inspire as well as natural skills despite tin legs he deserves a place in any top 5.

So thats mine, I debated long and hard. Stanford Tuck over Goodson? Beautling over Malan? Nowotny over Bong? The list is endless.

So who are yours and why?

[MA_Moby]

Adolf Galland - Pragmatic. A true soldier. Faithful to his country and his comrades more than to his leaders.

Ginger Lacey - A sergeant pilot made good. One of the best there was, 28 kills, and by all accounts a very modest and quiet man with it. And greatly respected by those who served alongside and under him.

Ivan Kozedhub - Top scoring Lavochkin pilot. Three times Hero of the Soviet Union! Over 60 confirmed kills, though he claimed it was more like 100! The man was a monster.

Lily Litvak - Top lady ace. 12 kills - flying a Yak 1 no less. Chosen to represent all the brave women pilots of WWII.

Aces I don't like.

Douglas Bader - I don't care if he didn't have any legs. Few who met the man liked him, finding him arrogant and over-opinionated. Not really a squadron man, but undoubtedly brilliant as an individual pilot (reminds me of someone - a Brazilian we know ). Gimme a Ginger Lacey anyday!

[Zak33]

don't know enough about enough of them to rate 5.

But to name one.....Adolphus "Sailor" Malan, author of "Ten of My Rules for Air Fighting"

Originally Posted by Sailor Malan

1: Wait until you see the white of his eyes
Fire short bursts of 1 to 2 seconds and only when your sights are definitely "ON".
2: Whilst shooting think of nothing else, brace the whole of the body, have both hands on the stick,concentrate on your ring sight.
3: Always keep a sharp lookout. "Keep your finger out"!
4: Height gives You the intiative.
5: Always turn and face the attack.
6: Make your decisions promptly. It is better to act quickly even though your tactics are not the best.
7: Never fly straight and level for more than 30 seconds in the combat area.
8: When diving to attack always leave a proportion of your formation above to act as top guard.
9: INNITIATIVE, AGGRESSION, AIR DISCIPLINE, and TEAM WORK are words that MEAN something in Air Fighting.
10: Go in quickly - Punch hard - Get out!

[MA_Moby]

For anyone interested I found this amazingly comprehensive website of Aces:

http://users.accesscomm.ca/magnusfamily/airaces1.htm

[nichomach]

No order, but:

Aleksandr I. Pokryshkin - 59 official victories in 139 combats. Revolutionised Soviet air combat doctrine to include little things like "not flying slowly in a circle at moderate altitude when there are 109s about"

Edward Mannock - 73 victories, killed in action July 26th 1918. Posthumously awarded a VC in 1919.

Charles Nungesser - absolutely certifiable, but great. On being reprimanded for scaring French civilians and told that it was his job to scare the Germans, he responded "At once, mon Commandant!", dashed to his plane, flew to the nearest German airfield and indulged in (very) low level aerobatics. Upon his return, he reported "Mission accomplished" - and got eight days confined to barracks...something that seemed to happen to him on a fairly regular basis.

Aside from those, Greycap, certainly; and he may be controversial, but you have to mention Erich Hartmann.

Those leap immediately to mind.

[1.JaVA_nijssie]

a Nungesser will be one...i like the daft ones, somehow they all are, bless them for it

b lmari Juutilainen scored more than 94 victories in two wars, flying Fokker D.XXIs, Brewster B-239s and Messerschmitt Me-109Gs.

If you ever tried a 4 to 90 + disavadtage that were about the odds (i tried, didnt last long)

c Saburo Sakai . being an ace made so many kills and survived being a gentle man,

d George Frederick 'Screwball' Beurling, mad as a dog,
Qute It was a great sight anyway. The red blood down the white fuselage. I must say it gives you a feeling of satisfaction when you actually blow their brains out." End
so glad he was on our side. Kinda like him, war wasnt great.

e Group Captain John "Cats-Eyes" Cunningham
night fighting in the west, the rest of the allies was to follow. Saw some interviews. Its the man you would like.

[Dakaras]

Originally Posted by 1.JaVA_nijssie

a Nungesser will be one...i like the daft ones, somehow they all are, bless them for it

b lmari Juutilainen scored more than 94 victories in two wars, flying Fokker D.XXIs, Brewster B-239s and Messerschmitt Me-109Gs.

If you ever tried a 4 to 90 + disavadtage that were about the odds (i tried, didnt last long)

c Saburo Sakai . being an ace made so many kills and survived being a gentle man,

d George Frederick 'Screwball' Beurling, mad as a dog,
Qute It was a great sight anyway. The red blood down the white fuselage. I must say it gives you a feeling of satisfaction when you actually blow their brains out." End
so glad he was on our side. Kinda like him, war wasnt great.

e Group Captain John "Cats-Eyes" Cunningham
night fighting in the west, the rest of the allies was to follow. Saw some interviews. Its the man you would like.

Good list Though for me Bob Brabham edges Cunningham in the nightfighter department. With you on Screwball, his diary of his time in malta is amazing

[1.JaVA_nijssie]

select your ace here
http://www.frenkenstein.com/ww2/Aces.htm

[Zak33]

JaVA mate..thats a great site...like the sound bites included

[mondogenerator]

Gregory 'pappy' Boyington - I read somewhere that he often trimmed his Corsair off and took a nap in flight and liked his drink.

Francis Gabreski - He flew P47's and was an Ace in a day.

Dick Bong - He said he had terrible aim, I bet the 38+ Japanese pilots he shot down might disagree!

John 'Bob' Braham - 28 kills, most of them at night and all in Beaufighters or Mosquito's.

[1.JaVA_nijssie]

while (like me) everybody has a few fighter hero's wich comes, in mind i would like to expand it to bomber pilots

take a few moments and find youre favorites.

[1.JaVA_nijssie]

contender

http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/ulric.html

[Dakaras]

Bomber Pilots in no real order

Guy Gibson VC Squadron Leader of the Dambusters, flew the 1st attack then went in with every other bomber till the target was destroyed. Also flew nightfighters for a time. Could have flown a desk for the rest of the war but didnt KIA.

Leonard Cheshire VC This man was amazing the Daddy of the Pathfinders he often flew a P51 to mark the target for the main force and on more than 1 occassion had AAA firing DOWN on him.

[Dakaras]

For the record Bob Braham combat record

ME110 6 Destroyed
HE111 5 Destroyed 1 Prop 1 Damaged
Do217 5 Destroyed 1 Damaged
JU88 4 Destroyed 4 Damaged
Do17 2 Destroyed
FW190 2 Destroyed
JU52 1 Destroyed
HE177 1 Destroyed
JU34 1 Destroyed
FW58 1 Destroyed
Bucker 131 1 Destroyed

Total 29 Confirmed 1 Probable 6 Damaged

1 in Blenhiem
19 Beaufighter
9 Mosquito


19 came at night and 10 in day all as has been noted in twin engine fighters this ranks him as the 4th highest scoring Commonwealth Ace.

Behind

JE Johnson 33.91 (British)
Paddy Finucane (Irish) But flew for RAF 32
GF "Screwball" Beurling (Canada) 31.33
Then Bob

My personnel list has StJ "Pat" Pattle at the top with 40+

[Skii]

Hans Jochen Marseilles

158 victories, shot down 17 British fighters on one day, in my opinion the greatest all round fighter pilot ever, and unrivalled as an airborne marksman.

[Dakaras]

Isnt there a question mark over the 17 mate? Undoubted a master but iirc I read somewhere we didnt opperate 17 Hurris that day that he destroyed 17? Not picking just interested

Oh and where ya been nubblet?