Solar panels via Green Energy Electrical

[Bonebreaker777]

So I've been offered solar panels being installed via http://www.greenenergyelectrical.com .

With Barclay's. The whole deal would be paying for itself via government feed-in tariff plus the savings plus the electricity we would sell back.

Any suggestions if either go or don't?

[Saracen]

I don't know anything about that deal, but when I last looked, these deals worked in one of two ways :-

1) You finance it.
2) The energy company does.

If you use 2), you don't pay up front, but get cheap/free power, and any surplus from the F.I.T goes to the energy company.

If you use 1), you pay for the panels, but YOU get the returns from the FIT. That used to mean the FIT took something like 8 to 10 years to pay off the cost of the panels, but as it was a 25 year deal, you then get an income, on top of free/cheap power.

The biggest single issue, to my mind, is if you end up moving house over that period. In the first case, you either have to "sell" the panels/FIT to the new buyer, or pay to have them removed and reinstalled, etc.

If you don't own the panels, i.e. option 2), then whoever does will have secured them via a "charge" (like a sort-of mortgage) on the house. That's going to be an issue if you don't own the house, as the landlord will have to agree. Also, it can complicate the sales process if you do own the house and move, because it will show up on the purchaser's searches as a charge on the property, which then involves a small amount of extra legal work, but moreover, requires a buyer that wants to take on the property with the charge on it. Personally, that would be enough to cost you my offer, as I would not accept that. So, you risk narrowing the range of buyers to those that would accept it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "with Barclays", but most likely, they are providing finance (effectively a loan) so in the above, when I've referred to the green energy company "owning" the panels, and holding a charge, replace that with Barclays owning them, depending on exactly what "with Barclays" means.

It MIGHT mean Barclays holding a charge on your home, or it MIGHT mean Barclays providing effectively an unsecured personal loan, in which case, you own the panels and just have a loan, like any other, with Barclays, and no charge on the property. IN which case, it's like situation 1), but instead of financing it from money you have, you're financing it via a loan.

And such a loan MIGHT make a lot of sense. It depends on so many things, like the state of your personal finances, any other commitments you might want to make (like a larger mortgage if you move), and of course, how long the loan is for, and the exact nature (secured or unsecured, or mortgage extension, etc).


As you've guessed by now, my view is there's no "one size fits all" answer to all this. Too many variables.

Generally, I think these panels are a pretty good bet, with the FIT. I know several people with them and, so far, they're working out to be quite advantageous. I, however, have not gone ahead, despite seriously thinking. Why? Because we plan on moving, probably in the next year or so. Certainly in the next few. And then, we would hit all the problems described above about finding suitable buyers, or removing, transporting ans re-installing the panels. I'm sure it's do-able, but is one hassle, on top of the (often nightmare) hassles of selling/buying houses without this complication.

Once we move, however, assuming the FIT details prevalent at the time work out okay, well, our next move WILL be our last, so then, conditions permitting, I'll be doing it.

[peterb]

It looks like the same sort of deal I was offered with another company. Basically it is a Barclays home improvement loan, and unsecured.

Basically, once accepted for the credit, you sign to say the installation is complete, Barclays hand over the money to the company, you register for FITS, job done.

But... It is a long loan period, so monthly payments are low, which is why the savings etc meet the repayments! The generation figures are probably a bit optimistic too. I found a better deal (lower interest) over a shorter period. The monthly payments are more than the savings/generated income, but I will pay off the loan much sooner. The FITS contract now lasts 20 years iirc.

I started a solar panel thread in this section, which went into the pros and cons, which you might find interesting. My system uses distributed micro converters (one per panel) rather than one central inverter, which has some benefits.

[Bonebreaker777]

So if I would happen to find the financial side of the deal acceptable, there is nothing wrong with the offer, right?

12 x solar panels.
We don't plan to move (more likely a smaller place later as investment).
Always wanted solar panels.

[peterb]

No, but read the small print, then the very small print and then read it through again.

If you have read my other thread, you will see that you need a bit of planning to realise maximum energy saving, run high power consuming devices sequentially to minimise power take from the grid. In my case the two highest power devices are probably washing machine and dishwasher. On sunny days when the forecast is good, I set timers on them so the washing machine runs first, then when that ends, the dishwasher starts.

[watercooled]

As above, just read all of the small print. With 'free' panels, I've heard of (from people who've installed them) deals where the house owner can be held responsible for loss of output from the panels due to e.g. house work/not keeping them clean if that was agreed, and would be liable to pay the panel owners compensation for that time.

Also, you can be contracted into having them for a significant amount of time, which (as has been mentioned) can cause problems if you move or the ownership changes. Also, the contract can mean you're stuck with the panels for a very long time and can run into problems if you decide you don't want them (or want to reduce the number) for whatever reason e.g. loft conversion. I.e. you're essentially guaranteeing the 'rental' of your roof space.

They're probably the more extreme examples but just something to be aware of and/or to look for in contracts. Just make sure you understand the terms and potential benefits/pitfalls upfront, and if anything is unclear it might even be worth getting a lawyer to give it the once-over. 'Free' panels can be a much bigger commitment than a lot of people realise.

[peterb]

Water cooled, I don't think this a "rent-a-roof' scheme. The OP would own the panels and get all the benefits from them.

The issues really are the terms of the loan, and the return on investment considerations.

To the OP, make sure you know exactly what is being installed, how it will be done (scaffolding, scaffolding towers etc) and who will be doing the installing. They say they don't subcontract, but check when the installers turn up, especially if they are not in a liveried van!

[watercooled]

Fair enough, I wasn't sure what sort of plan it was. The important thing is, as you say, being fully aware of how things are going to work in advance.

[Bonebreaker777]

As PeterB said. I would own the panels but would also get a loan from Barclay's. If I would agree, Barclay's pays the company organising everything.

Next week a certified inspector would come and if the roof is sound (which I don't doubt) I would pay £100 as a deposit and sort the details of the future installation with him out.

The installation would take 2 days, or so. Scaffolding first days, panels plus connecting up the second day. Both days max. 4h work.

Once there and done, I would earn money from FIT, electricity savings plus sell back. Would work out for me monthly paying £20-30 till the loan is paid back, after that 'pure profit'.

20years warranty on the panels (or 25y). 10y warranty on the installation.

[peterb]

The Barclays loan is OK, but it is worth looking around to see if you can beat it. I found a better offer (for me) elsewhere, although over a shorter period. But as always, read the small print.

You may find that the generation figures are optimistic, and obviously output drops in winter months, and as stated earlier, maximising the savings does require a bit of management on your part. If they offer you the Immersun immersion heater controller, that is probably worth it, even if you normally heat your water off a gas boiler.

You save more by using your own power than you get from exporting, but the assumption and payment is based on exporting 50% of that generated, regardless of how much you do. And the export tariff is much lower than the import, so maximise use of your power to minimise the energy you buy.

[badass]

Remember that although other loan offers may be cheaper, the fact that the Barclays loan is tied in with the panels means that if for some reason they are not fit for purpose and the Panel company either is bankrupt or just is impossible to deal with, you can pursue remedy through Barclays under the consumer credit act.

Just another piece of information to consider

[ac198621]

I am wondering if anyone knows where to buy solar panels from along with all of the mounting equipment?

I am new to this and would like to setup my solar array before the government feed in tariff is cut.

A friend of mine suggested: solarandheatstore.com

Does anyone have any other ideas? Really want to get this sorted.