Money Saved on Electricity in One Year

[ash42]

Hi guys! Have you heard about the recently-released $50 Philips LED light bulb that is said to last for up to 30 years? What can you say about it? Would you consider purchasing one?

[snootyjim]

How long does your average LED bulb last?

I mean, none of us have owned one long enough to see if they'll do 30 years. I suspect most of them will do a significant proportion of that, so I don't really see the point.

Why buy a $50 30 year bulb when you can get a $10 one that will last at least 10 years... and if in 10 years it dies, the 30 year bulb will be a heck of a lot cheaper than $50. The tech is moving so quickly at the moment I wouldn't want to spend that much.

[capt_cornflake]

How long does your average LED bulb last?

I mean, none of us have owned one long enough to see if they'll do 30 years. I suspect most of them will do a significant proportion of that, so I don't really see the point.

Why buy a $50 30 year bulb when you can get a $10 one that will last at least 10 years... and if in 10 years it dies, the 30 year bulb will be a heck of a lot cheaper than $50. The tech is moving so quickly at the moment I wouldn't want to spend that much.

One of the terms of the competition that bulb won, is that it needs to cost $10 within 12 months of it's launch.
I assume they've calculated that as they ramp up production that they can reduce the cost to this level pretty quickly.

In any event the argument for CFT -> LED is no where near as convincing as from incandescent -> CFT.

In terms of the GU10 LEDs, I've been using these to replace failures for probably 3 years, and not had a single failure yet.

[Saracen]

Hi guys! Have you heard about the recently-released $50 Philips LED light bulb that is said to last for up to 30 years? What can you say about it? Would you consider purchasing one?

I hadn't heard of it, but no, I wouldn't.

First, that is no doubt a statistical claim, as I doubt they've had them running on test for 30 years. As such, it may or may not be right, but good luck getting a refund if it lasts 20 years and dies.

Second, it might cost $50 today, but what about next month, let alone next year? $5?

Third, replacing one bulb is pretty meaningless. I'd have to replace a couple of dozen or more to do the house. At $50 a pop? I don't think so.

[tomkent45]

I am sure they will!

I asked as they seem to have quite chunky heatsinks on them and the ordinary MR16 bulbs get damn hot.



Are they fitting smart meters now? Maybe I'll get a smart meter installed as they are going to change it soon.

[ash42]

Great input guys! That's why I was also hesitant on purchasing one even if I'm really a fan of LED light bulbs and an advocate of green living. They'll surely be cheaper in the next few years and we can definitely save more with the current ones that are more than half the price of it.

[pp05]

In my kitchen we have 6 halogen spotlights MR16 type (two pins). I think 35w each.

The decorator suggested considering LED based as they consume 5w. 6 x 5w = 30w. Do they give off enough light and is it warm like halogen based lighting?

He tells me they will go into existing connections and will reduce bills. Their upfront cost is double halogen based ones presently.

[snootyjim]

If you get decent LED bulbs, it's nigh-on impossible to tell the difference (IMO).

[pp05]

JIM i have potentially 10 bulbs to replace. The Philips are said to be some of better batch but again some are coming in at 10gbp a pop, 10 bulbs to potentially replace and not see the benefit anytime soon with risk to some not lasting the year if used with existing connections in ceiling fittings which run 12v.

[scaryjim]

I've replaced 50w halogens (GU10s, admittedly, but pretty much same difference) with 3.4w LEDs from Ikea (£6 each). They're a bit dimmer than the 50w, but the light's nice and warm and 4 of them provide plenty of light for our dining room. 6 5w LEDs will be plenty for a kitchen, and LEDs last a lot longer than halogens, typically - and if you're using them with a low voltage DC supply they'll probably be more reliable (240v AC LED bulbs have to include transformers to convert to low volt DC, which obviously yours don't). The difference between 30w and 140w is huge - in a kitchen more so as you presumably use it for several hours a day, every day? Each hour per day that you have those lights on is going to save you 40kwh over the course of a year, which is around £5.

[pp05]

I've replaced 50w halogens (GU10s, admittedly, but pretty much same difference) with 3.4w LEDs from Ikea (£6 each). They're a bit dimmer than the 50w, but the light's nice and warm and 4 of them provide plenty of light for our dining room. 6 5w LEDs will be plenty for a kitchen, and LEDs last a lot longer than halogens, typically - and if you're using them with a low voltage DC supply they'll probably be more reliable (240v AC LED bulbs have to include transformers to convert to low volt DC, which obviously yours don't). The difference between 30w and 140w is huge - in a kitchen more so as you presumably use it for several hours a day, every day? Each hour per day that you have those lights on is going to save you 40kwh over the course of a year, which is around £5.

I have a through lounge setup. Living room half has a normal Bayonet energy saving bulb. The kitchen (3m2) has 6 of these MR16 halogen fitted. While I see the savings potentially I am also thinking if I rent it out as I plan to the future, is my future tenant likely to replace a £10 bulb. I assume if they need transformer then the plasterboard will have to be cut open to allow for all this to be connected up or do you get all-in-one fixtures and just pop it through existing hole.

What would you say to people who say that LED is not suited as downlights and don't give much angular light.

[scaryjim]

You can get MR16 bulbs in both 12v and 240v versions, so you need to check which you're already on and just replace them with those. The bulbs are a direct replacement - you just need to make sure you get the right voltage. LED lights will be a huge selling point for tenants as it will allow them to cut their bills. And there's a very good chance your LED bulbs will outlast your tenants, tbh. And even if they don't, it'd be up to the tenants whether they chose to replace them with LED bulbs or just halogens. As I said, they're a direct replacement option - you just plug a different bulb in, no extra work needed. I'm currently a tenant, and I'm going round replacing all the Halogen bulbs in our house with LEDs, because I want to make the saving on lighting.

As to angular light, it depends entirely on which bulbs you get - as they're LED spots they use a reflector, like standard spots, so they angular spread varies from bulb to bulb. Most LED reflectors are marked with an angle of direct light. I have to say I've certainly not noticed any problem in your living room - as with normal spots there are patches of brighter light, but the ambient infill is absolutely fine.

[Saracen]

... I am also thinking if I rent it out as I plan to the future, is my future tenant likely to replace a £10 bulb.....

Yes.

They're likely to replace your £10 LEDs with their own cheaper halogens and take your LEDs with them when they leave. Because, of course, yours "blew".

Or am I just too cynical? No, thought not.


EDIT - You could, I suppose, list the LED bulbs in the contract and stipulate like-for-like replacements .... which might deter some renters who think they'll be replacing your potentially old, worn LEDs with nice, shiny new ones at their own cost.

If I were renting, and wanted fancy bulbs to keep my bills down, I'd put them in when I moved in, and take 'em out when I left. But maybe that's just me.

[scaryjim]

They're likely to replace your £10 LEDs with their own cheaper halogens and take your LEDs with them when they leave. Because, of course, yours "blew".

Or am I just too cynical?

I'm currently a tenant, and I'm going round replacing all the Halogen bulbs in our house with LEDs, because I want to make the saving on lighting.

No, thought not.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to take issue with that assumption

yes, yes, OK, you made the edit about choosing to put them in / take them out yourself, and I'll be in two minds as to whether I'm taking my LEDs with me when I leave (if we stay another year then I probably won't bother though, tbh).

However, making sure you have LEDs at the end of the tenancy is much simpler than stipulating like-for-like replacement in the contract - just list the bulbs as LED in the inventory, then if they're not LED when the tenants move out you can claim the cost of new LEDs from the deposit. That is *exactly* what an inventory and the deposit protection schemes are for

[Saracen]

....

However, making sure you have LEDs at the end of the tenancy is much simpler than stipulating like-for-like replacement in the contract - just list the bulbs as LED in the inventory, then if they're not LED when the tenants move out you can claim the cost of new LEDs from the deposit. That is *exactly* what an inventory and the deposit protection schemes are for

Well, that's more or less what I meant by putting it in the contract - include them (albeit in the inventory, which forms part of the contract arrangements) specifically as LED, and list how many (and maybe where) and ensure that they are replaced like for like . i.e. not with a cheaper bulb technology.

But my whole most was just a touch facetious.

[scaryjim]

my whole post was just a touch facetious.

Really? Hadn't noticed

The point I was making was more that you don't even have to tell them to replace like-for-like - just specify them in the inventory. The tenants can reasonably replace them with cheaper bulbs if they want, but they need to make sure the items in the inventory are in the house at the end of the tenancy I suppose the only risk is that you get a cunning tenant who'll stick the old dead LED bulbs back in before they leave