Windows Vista retail doomed unless Microsoft cuts prices?

[redlight]

If I talk to any of my customers about Vista they just look at me with a blank face as if it is a Scottish expression they have never heard from me before. They have no interest in a new operating system most of them just about manage to change the screen resolution or screensaver. Some still hold on to Millenium or 98 because they know how to use it. Telling them the price of a decent graphics card is bad enough. I can just imagine what they would say if I told them to upgrade and gave them the price of an OEM copy never mind a retail one. They are happy with what they have got and will stay that way until they buy a new computer with an OEM copy installed. So it is left to us the enthusiasts to pick up the tab for retail copies. Me like most I think will hang on till there is enough support and software(in my case that means games) to justify buying a copy. I want to run the 64bit version so I guess i will be sticking with XP for a while longer and for practice just run a copy with my beta key and do a clean install when my time runs out. After all it wont be that difficult to reinstall at the moment as I have nothing(that I need) to run on it.

[redlight]

I mean the the copy I downloaded from Microsoft and the key they gave me. Before anybody jumps on me.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Quick question. With the retail version of vista, is it posible to install it on say 3-4 different pc's like the OSX version called family pack?

i know its againts rules to talk about piracy but just a quick note, due to the high price of vista, can you see alot of people downloading pirate copies of it? If so, this could effect then amount of profit MS could lose.

Overal Vista sounds great but like tomahawk said, i dont need it right now at the moment. im perfectly happy with xp.

[charleski]

What I'd really like to know is what the OEM prices for Vista are, and how they compare to XP. I expect Vista will produce a small bump in new computer prices, though manufacturers will try to hide this in the Home Basic/Home Premium split. What really matters is how this will affect new computer purchases, which is where MS really makes its money.

[Syn]

Originally Posted by j.o.s.h.1408

Quick question. With the retail version of vista, is it posible to install it on say 3-4 different pc's like the OSX version called family pack?

i know its againts rules to talk about piracy but just a quick note, due to the high price of vista, can you see alot of people downloading pirate copies of it? If so, this could effect then amount of profit MS could lose.

Overal Vista sounds great but like tomahawk said, i dont need it right now at the moment. im perfectly happy with xp.

With Retail licence you can use it from computer to computer but you can only have ONE activeated installation at the time, if you want to use a 2nd PC with same Key you will need to deactivate the 1st PC and then Activate 2nd.

Originally Posted by charleski

What I'd really like to know is what the OEM prices for Vista are, and how they compare to XP. I expect Vista will produce a small bump in new computer prices, though manufacturers will try to hide this in the Home Basic/Home Premium split. What really matters is how this will affect new computer purchases, which is where MS really makes its money.

My Ultimate OEM cost me £141 with overnight shipping. If you want to check rest just go on the web sites listed in this article and all should contain Retail as well as OEM copies.

[TheAnimus]

Originally Posted by Gordy

When you compare it to OS X pricing, MS are getting very close to being suicidal in pushing people over to the other OS's out there.

I have to buy a copy of vista and run that and windows as otherwise I couldn't support my clients properly. Other than that the only thing keeping me on windows is gaming.

not really. Look at apple, its £100 per new OS, which seams to be every time it should be a service pack.

Compare it with XP Home when it first came out £76 OEM.

No upgrade needed for 5+ years.

Now, that means for 5 years your able to play all the latest games (which os x can't) run all the latest software, and support all the latest hardware.

God damn its so expensive!

Most home users don't buy retail versions of windows its a miniscule percentage of their sales. Most buy computers with it loaded, and for vista most people will need a new PC anyway!

[charleski]

Originally Posted by Syn

My Ultimate OEM cost me £141 with overnight shipping. If you want to check rest just go on the web sites listed in this article and all should contain Retail as well as OEM copies.

Dell and HP will be paying very different prices for their copies.

[Edit]I suppose it might be reasonable to assume that the price differential for single OEM copies would be reflected in the actual cost of these licences to the big system builders. If so, that means a £5 price increase for Home basic and a £17 increase for Home Premium systems. These are base material costs, which can be multiplied 5-10x by the time it reaches the consumer. For Home Basic on low-end systems there's a chance the builders will swallow the extra, but I forsee quite a price bump in 'Premium' systems.

[Bob Crabtree]

charleski,

I noted yesterday while on Dell UK's site that when you buy a system, you can pay £11 (p&p) and get a free version of Vista sent to you once it's released!

The particular PC I was looking at - a middle of the road laptop - comes as standard with Window MCE and the "free" upgrade to Vista is for the Premium version.

To my mind, this situation - free copies of the OEM version of Vista - only underlines the stupidly high pricing of Vista retail versions.

[Jonny M]

Originally Posted by TheAnimus

not really. Look at apple, its £100 per new OS, which seams to be every time it should be a service pack.

Mac OS 10.0 to 10.4 is nowhere near the same as Windows 2000 to Windows 2000 SP4 was. Mac OS upgrades are not service packs.

And it's not really the fault of Mac OS that it doesn't run Windows games. Windows can't run Final Cut, but I don't blame that on Microsoft.

[TheAnimus]

Originally Posted by Jonny M

Mac OS 10.0 to 10.4 is nowhere near the same as Windows 2000 to Windows 2000 SP4 was. Mac OS upgrades are not service packs.

And it's not really the fault of Mac OS that it doesn't run Windows games. Windows can't run Final Cut, but I don't blame that on Microsoft.

I was thinking XP to SP2. Like with like?

Also yes it is the fault of mac, what have they done to help/encorage them? Where is their feature rich API?

[kempez]

Vista pricing is totally ridiculous when you take a good hard look at it.

When they were up before MS asked them tyo take it down, you look at Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.com.

Same company right? Same price right?

Indeed correct, except they change the sign.

£399....$399

Now is it me or does that not sound right?

I mean 17.5% VAT aside, that's an increase of 100% or there abouts

Bob's 100% right: we're being ripped off.

Then let's take a look at an OEM license for your average PC enthusiast.

1 Installation on one PC. Upgrades are allowed, but not to the motherboard or "Core components". Now MS can't include the CPU qas this is a bit ridiculous...but just think how many have gone either A XP or A 64 > Core2Duo, it's a lot (of us small minority).

You'd be stuffed basically. Your one install that's limited to your one PC would be it. OK you could maybe get away with ringing them for activation, but this is illegal and we don't do that right?

Say your motherboard is a bit rubbish and you've perhaps changed a heatsink or bought it from eBay and you think ah the *insert new chipset here* chipset would be much better, I'll buy that new motherboard. Can you do that with an OEM copy?

You're answer is a big fat "No"

Perhaps why Bob is so erked is because him and his colleagues will maybe be FORCED to get retail Vista (or the company if they don't get some nice MS gifts), as they have to constantly do fresh installs for new and exciting products that us lot want to hear about...and it just HAS to be on the new OS as DX10's out and Crysis is DX10 only....

MS have overpriced Vista Retail and basically taken the flippin mickey out of us here in the UK...thanks Bill

usually I actually am on the side of Microsoft as their OS has to support so much hardware and software, but this time they've gone one or two £100's too far

Agreed on Mac OSX too: the sheer amount you get for the price of a low-end GPU is awesome and the hardware is well put together and very good, although a little too limiting for my taste.

Having said that I really want a Macbook

[TheAnimus]

with changing your motherboard and stuff i've been told its perfectly okay if its a hardware pre-failure replacement.

IE, it keeps crashing ever since i volt modded.

They are very happy as long as you de-activate first to let you do this, i think they are probably harvesting some very useful hardware replacement/failure stats.

[Koolpc]

Vista will be pirated on a massive scale cause of the massive prices!

[excalibur2]

Originally Posted by Koolpc

Vista will be pirated on a massive scale cause of the massive prices!

My theory in looking at the big picture on MS products, is that piracy could benefit MS.........if everyone was gradually locked into MS products legal or illegal, whose going to buy competitive products and they will be gradually sqeezed out, leaving MS ruling the world.
Then when MS becomes a monoply they can screw the consumer and really crack down on anything illegal esp by pressurising motherboard manufactures to fit "dongles".

[Bob Crabtree]

Originally Posted by kempez

Perhaps why Bob is so erked is because him and his colleagues will maybe be FORCED to get retail Vista (or the company if they don't get some nice MS gifts), as they have to constantly do fresh installs for new and exciting products that us lot want to hear about...and it just HAS to be on the new OS as DX10's out and Crysis is DX10 only....

While I'm pleased to read the very supportive words in the rest of your posting, I would take issue with this little bit.

For myself and all my colleagues, the cost of Vista is a business expense so not really a personal issue at all (except for our own personal PCs, of course).

Why I'm hacked off is that:

a/ Microsoft is taking the Mickey - worldwide - over the high price of Vista retail.

Okay, prices in the UK are stupidly high, but they are high in the USA, too, it's just that the weak dollar makes UK prices appear especially high; though they are, of course, genuinely high nonetheless.

b/ I truly believe that far fewer people will upgrade their PCs to Vista than would have done had retail versions of the OS been fairly priced.

If that supposition is correct (and it won't be long now before we know), then a lot of people will be without the pleasures of Vista for months or years - and that's a crying shame.

It also means - and any form of business stupidity makes me angry (especially stuff that's so bleeding obvious even to an idiot like me) - that Microsoft will make far less from Vista retail than it would have done if it had priced the various versions more fairly worldwide.

Even Microsoft can't buck the market-proven general rule that high-price=low volume; low-price=high volume.

Now, it's possible that what Microsoft may have hatched up is some crafty ploy to aid the sales of PC hardware (and also get folk using versions of Vista that are tied to one particular PC).

If an ordinary user can buy a brand new desktop PC for little more than the cost of Vista retail (and that will be the case for most high-volume, low-priced desktop PCs from the likes of Dell and even the smaller system builders), why would such people consider buying the retail version to install on their current kit (and maybe have to pay out at the same time for extra RAM and a better graphics card)?

And, if it turns out that this is the reason for the high pricing of Vista retail (not that we're ever likely to find out), well that makes me mad, too.

Totally ignoring environmental issues (which we shouldn't do - too many PCs are already being put in landfills), that's because it's Microsoft once again spitting directly in the eye of the folk who, like many who frequent HEXUS, are active supporters of Windows (by their actions, rather, necessarily, than their words).

More than that, they are the very people whose interest in high-end hardware and peripherals (and willingness to buy them) is vital to the improvements enjoyed by the whole Windows community.

And, make no mistake about it, that means they're also critically important to all the companies that produce systems, components, peripherals, software and, of course, the Windows OS.

Microsoft even said as much when it recently changed the wording of the Vista retail EULA - PC enthusiasts' clamour gets major change in Windows Vista EULA.

This is what Microsoft' Nick White said,

Our intention behind the original terms was genuinely geared toward combating piracy; however, it’s become clear to us that those original terms were perceived as adversely affecting an important group of customers: PC and hardware enthusiasts. You who comprise the enthusiast market are vital to us for several reasons, not least of all because of the support you’ve provided us throughout the development of Windows Vista. We respect the time and expense you go to in customizing, building and rebuilding your hardware and we heard you that the previous terms were seen as an impediment to that -- it’s for that reason we’ve made this change. I hope that this change provides the flexibility you need, and gives you more reason to be excited about the upcoming retail release of our new operating system.

That being so, it seems all the more unreasonable and stupid that Vista's high retail price should strike hardest at the very people that Microsoft says it values so highly - the PC enthusiasts.

[andypeart]

luckily as a computer science student we get two copies of Vista Business entirely free hehe god bless MSDNAA. It was put up there late last week, thurs i think, downloaded yesterday and burnt myself a nice DVD. There is also a CD version on there 5 cds. Also got Access,project,visio and onenote 2007 last week off of MSDNAA. Pity they wont put up the whole of office

Vista does seem far too expensive to buy at retail, cant see many people going out and buying it. Most people will get it with a new pc i expect.