DSLR advice appreciated.

HSK · 23-07-2008, 07:18 PM

There's a few DSLR threads, which I've looked at, hopefully I'm not diluting by making another...

I've got around 600 quid to spend on a camera, at the moment I was thinking about getting a body and go with a kit lens, until I can get some more funds later to pick up a decent lens or two.

I'm new to DSLR's, It's mainly for me to get a bit more productive, as I'm doing a lil web design, graphics, print, and sometimes need my own images etc...and I'm interested in photography so I'd like to try it out.

I guess I need it to be solid, good all rounder for that price, easy to use menu wise, I would really like to be able to do some time lapse photography? hopefully macro (but I guess I'll need a decent lens later for that)...indoor/outdoor pics, products pics also.

Like I said before, I'm a noob, mainly only used video cameras, but any recommendations or ideas would be great!

IBM · 23-07-2008, 08:48 PM

Go second hand and pick up something like a canon 30D and some decent glass. Body will set you back around £300-350, and you can pick up a tamron 17-50mm 2.8 with the change (or a 28-135 if you like)....

colmo · 23-07-2008, 10:30 PM

I'd agree that you should allocate about half the cash to good lenses - they are a better investment than the camera, which will ultimately devalue much like a computer. You might want a flash too, if you can squeeze it into the budget.

Good current models that fit your budget are the likes of the Sony A200/A300 (A350 might be a bit too much), Canon 400D (soon to be replaced), Pentax K200D and Olympus E420/E520. The Sony A200 is going for c. £230 body only, which IMHO is amazing for the spec.

Slightly older/discontinued/used models to look for are the Canon 20D/30D, Pentax K10D (or it's clone, the Samsung GX10) and maybe the Nikon D80 if you can find it cheap. All these cameras are actually a bit chunkier and mid-range than the newer cameras above, so there's a slight trade-off of image quality for ruggedness.

I suggest you nip down to a local camera store to give the different brands a quick fondle - you may like the UI or ergonomics on some over others.

HSK · 23-07-2008, 10:43 PM

What model is replacing the 400D? have they announced one...a body and a decent lens sounds good, i'd like everything brand new though if possible, might have to increase the budget though.

Bobster · 23-07-2008, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by colmo

I'd agree that you should allocate about half the cash to good lenses - they are a better investment than the camera, which will ultimately devalue much like a computer. You might want a flash too, if you can squeeze it into the budget.

Good current models that fit your budget are the likes of the Sony A200/A300 (A350 might be a bit too much), Canon 400D (soon to be replaced), Pentax K200D and Olympus E420/E520. The Sony A200 is going for c. £230 body only, which IMHO is amazing for the spec.

Slightly older/discontinued/used models to look for are the Canon 20D/30D, Pentax K10D (or it's clone, the Samsung GX10) and maybe the Nikon D80 if you can find it cheap. All these cameras are actually a bit chunkier and mid-range than the newer cameras above, so there's a slight trade-off of image quality for ruggedness.

I suggest you nip down to a local camera store to give the different brands a quick fondle - you may like the UI or ergonomics on some over others.

400 has been replaced by the 450, which is soon to be replaced by the 1000D..

if you're looking @ a 20/30D then you should be looking @ a D200 (nikons answer to them)

as for image quality, the 20/30D will imho out shoot an A200/A300 when it comes to IQ (especially when combined with some fine L or quality glass

) more megapixels doesn't = better IQ

i regularly output 18x12+ inches with my 20D's, even @ ISO3200..

**Agent** · 23-07-2008, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Bobster

400 has been replaced by the 450, which is soon to be replaced by the 1000D..

I thought the 1000D was sitting alongside the 450D, not taking over it?

HSK · 23-07-2008, 11:19 PM

Hmm yea, I was looking at the 450D, but a friend of mine recommended me to go with a Nikon. Saw a D60 for £400 ish (i think) after a 40 quid cash back....or a D80 with kit lens @ 630, but then the budgets gone for any other lenses.

**Agent** · 23-07-2008, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by HSK

Hmm yea, I was looking at the 450D, but a friend of mine recommended me to go with a Nikon. Saw a D60 for £400 ish (i think) after a 40 quid cash back....or a D80 with kit lens @ 630, but then the budgets gone for any other lenses.

And I'd recommend you go with the Canon

In all seriousness there is a big issue you're missing here - how does the camera feel to you. There is nothing worse than fumbling around with a camera that doesn't suit you well. Go to your local camera shop and handle both.

I did this for both the Nikon and Canon. I didn't really mind which I went for before hand, but the Canon felt far nicer in my hands. This was the clincher for me as the cameras were very close technically wise. Besides - I'd be the limitation for either of them, not the camera

HSK · 24-07-2008, 12:19 AM

Thank you for the advice guys, and yea, i was planning to pop down to a Store next time i'm in town to get a closer look at them, just needed a few recommendations to look out for when i'm down there.

colmo · 24-07-2008, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Bobster

400 has been replaced by the 450, which is soon to be replaced by the 1000D..

The 400D segment has been split into two, really. It can still be had new in places AFAIK.

Originally Posted by Bobster

if you're looking @ a 20/30D then you should be looking @ a D200 (nikons answer to them)

It's true that the D200 is a lovely camera (feels fantastic in the hand), but finding one for this kind of budget is going to be tough.

Originally Posted by Bobster

as for image quality, the 20/30D will imho out shoot an A200/A300 when it comes to IQ (especially when combined with some fine L or quality glass ) more megapixels doesn't = better IQ

i regularly output 18x12+ inches with my 20D's, even @ ISO3200..

Apologies for the general nature of the remark, I was thinking more of the Pentax and the Nikon at higher ISOs, actually.

In a Canon 30D v Sony A200 contest, I would say the Sony A200 would win on the low ISO end of things (I have an A4 print from my A100 which looks great even though it's a crop of only a quarter of the frame - ergo, A2 is doable with the whole frame), with Canon's CMOS sensor (even their previous gen stuff) coming into it's own at higher ISOs. IQ of all dSLRs, it must be said, is astonishingly good. For a sports shooter, the 30D would be a sound choice as it has a higher fps rating and excellent AF, along with that high ISO performance. It is, as I say, a different class of camera, albeit one generation older.

As for the Canon 450D and Nikon D60; the former is a nice camera, but is a bit too expensive for your budget, I think you need to hold back more cash for lenses and accessories, while the D60 does not, IMHO, represent a good investment - it eliminates access to most of the used Nikon lenses out there, forcing purchases of new or recent lenses with in-lens motors. Also considering the much cheaper Sony A200 is as well (or better) specified (it also very likely has the very same sensor as the D60), I can't see the point.

A quick word for Olympus - there are some good deals out there for two-lens kits; their kit lenses are noted for being rather good, and if you like the cameras (which can be a bit quirky), are a worthy choice.

Pentax (and their clone brothers, the Samsungs) appeal to the purists. The K10D (and GX10) can be had for £350 - you'll not get a better viewfinder for that kind of money. AF and high ISO isn't their strong point, however.

If it was my money, what would I buy? That's a toughie.
The Canon 30D is good at about £350 used, the only thing I would worry about is dust on the sensor - it has no dust-busting technology. Best choice for sports or wildlife.
The Pentax/Samsung K10D/GX10 (also £350, but available new) is tempting - great viewfinder, in-body stabilisation, wireless flash trigger - but isn't quite so quick in terms of AF or fps. A good choice for portraits due to lens choice, especially all those lovely (limited edition, pancake and manual focus) prime lenses.
The Sony A200 is a good allrounder - in-body stabilisation, dust protection, wireless flash trigger, quicker AF than the Pentax/Samsung, solid metering, pity it only has a pentamirror viewfinder. I've heard adding a Pentax O-ME53 eyepiece magnifier helps there.
The Olympus E420 + 25mm pancake is an intriguing one - perfect for the street shooter. I did handle a E400 and it felt strange (like Bakelite); maybe they've changed that. The two lens kit costs £430, which is a lot of bang for the buck.

Tbh, I'd take any of these - they do different things well. With each one, I'd be able to afford the camera, an extra good lens (like the Tamron 17-50mm f2.8) and/or maybe a flash for £600. The beginnings of a system, that.

Here's one for the Bobster - is £250 for a 20D good?
https://secure.ffordes.com/Shop/Stor...=97405&promo=0

Bobster · 24-07-2008, 02:30 AM

249 is pretty good, but should find out how many clicks its taken before purchasing, shutter failure occurs around 80,000 and to replace the shutter costs 250 through canon..

dust busting technology is a load of bollox btw.. there's a test somewhere, they tested 5 or so cameras, the did a dust sensor test before and after the 'shake' and sommat like 85% of the dust was still there, it had just moved

Bobster · 24-07-2008, 02:32 AM

if you're going to pop into a store, try a local shop rather than a jessops!

HSK · 24-07-2008, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by colmo

The 400D segment has been split into two, really. It can still be had new in places AFAIK.

It's true that the D200 is a lovely camera (feels fantastic in the hand), but finding one for this kind of budget is going to be tough.

Apologies for the general nature of the remark, I was thinking more of the Pentax and the Nikon at higher ISOs, actually.

In a Canon 30D v Sony A200 contest, I would say the Sony A200 would win on the low ISO end of things (I have an A4 print from my A100 which looks great even though it's a crop of only a quarter of the frame - ergo, A2 is doable with the whole frame), with Canon's CMOS sensor (even their previous gen stuff) coming into it's own at higher ISOs. IQ of all dSLRs, it must be said, is astonishingly good. For a sports shooter, the 30D would be a sound choice as it has a higher fps rating and excellent AF, along with that high ISO performance. It is, as I say, a different class of camera, albeit one generation older.

As for the Canon 450D and Nikon D60; the former is a nice camera, but is a bit too expensive for your budget, I think you need to hold back more cash for lenses and accessories, while the D60 does not, IMHO, represent a good investment - it eliminates access to most of the used Nikon lenses out there, forcing purchases of new or recent lenses with in-lens motors. Also considering the much cheaper Sony A200 is as well (or better) specified (it also very likely has the very same sensor as the D60), I can't see the point.

A quick word for Olympus - there are some good deals out there for two-lens kits; their kit lenses are noted for being rather good, and if you like the cameras (which can be a bit quirky), are a worthy choice.

Pentax (and their clone brothers, the Samsungs) appeal to the purists. The K10D (and GX10) can be had for £350 - you'll not get a better viewfinder for that kind of money. AF and high ISO isn't their strong point, however.

If it was my money, what would I buy? That's a toughie.
The Canon 30D is good at about £350 used, the only thing I would worry about is dust on the sensor - it has no dust-busting technology. Best choice for sports or wildlife.
The Pentax/Samsung K10D/GX10 (also £350, but available new) is tempting - great viewfinder, in-body stabilisation, wireless flash trigger - but isn't quite so quick in terms of AF or fps. A good choice for portraits due to lens choice, especially all those lovely (limited edition, pancake and manual focus) prime lenses.
The Sony A200 is a good allrounder - in-body stabilisation, dust protection, wireless flash trigger, quicker AF than the Pentax/Samsung, solid metering, pity it only has a pentamirror viewfinder. I've heard adding a Pentax O-ME53 eyepiece magnifier helps there.
The Olympus E420 + 25mm pancake is an intriguing one - perfect for the street shooter. I did handle a E400 and it felt strange (like Bakelite); maybe they've changed that. The two lens kit costs £430, which is a lot of bang for the buck.

Tbh, I'd take any of these - they do different things well. With each one, I'd be able to afford the camera, an extra good lens (like the Tamron 17-50mm f2.8) and/or maybe a flash for £600. The beginnings of a system, that.

Here's one for the Bobster - is £250 for a 20D good?
https://secure.ffordes.com/Shop/Stor...=97405&promo=0

Hmm yea I agree with you, can see the sense in getting a body, and then getting an extra decent lens.

But i was just thinking, seeing as i'm just starting off, maybe get used to & get an idea of what i need, pick one up as soon as i can (like only in 2 months max).

I'd like to have a decent new body as my budget allows for now.

I did see this:-

http://www.jessops.com/Store/s74764/...e/details.aspx

comes with a lil Tamron lens, worthwhile bundle? well i guess its better then the kit lens...

HSK · 24-07-2008, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Bobster

if you're going to pop into a store, try a local shop rather than a jessops!

ahh, are Jessops quite pricey bob?

colmo · 24-07-2008, 03:00 AM

Recent sensors are also less attractive to dust - iridium coating or some such thing. Have you had much trouble with dust on your 30D, Bob? My A100 (which has this tech) has occasionally manifested a few specs, but the sensor shake procedure does the trick on it.

Agreed on Jessops - you can almost smell the company dying every time you set foot in their stores. They know sweet FA about the cameras, too. They killed the local stores, and now online traders and the end of the film age are killing them.

A few deals I saw - Park Cameras (and others for the Canon promo at least) had £50 cashbacks on the Canon 450D and the Samsung GX10, which I thought made them good deals. The 450D kit is still a bit pricey for the budget, but the 18-55mm IS lens is credited to be very good. Without the cashback, it costs nearly as much as the Sony A200 and Tamron 17-50mm f2.8, and I think I'd opt for the f2.8 lens given that choice.