Want to learn web development, best language & books to learn from?

[AndiWhitts]

Hi,

I would like to start developing websites but I am unsure of what language to start with. I have really only seen PHP & HTML yet I don't know anything about the advantages or disadvantages of using either. Also, if I chose to learn HTML5, is it it's own language? Or is it an add on of HTML?

If anyone could share there experiences, opinions or expertise I would be extremely grateful.

[aidanjt]

Modern web development is actually broken into multiple facets and technologies, and they all compliment each other..

You have the server front-end components, usually just a web server like Apache.. The back-end components, which constitutes a data storage, often some kind of Structured Query Language-based database engine (typically MySQL when using PHP, but there are plenty of choices), and the scripting engine (like PHP) to retrieve and structure the data in a useful way to return it to the web server, which returns that page to the client (web browser), normally this will be HTML, XHTML, or some kind of XML-based abortion.

So that returns the pre-laid-out data to the browser, and usually applying a standard stylisation template using CSS reference by the programmed page returned to the browser, so styles are consistent across pages. And when you want to manipulate the data on the web browser itself, you use JavaScript, which can even update pages without reloading the page using the Document Object Model (DOM) and the XMLHttpRequest Object, colloquially known as AJAX (Asynchronous JavaScript and XML), due in part to its customary XML (or JSON (JavaScript Object Notation)) data interchange between the web server, its back-end components and the web page.

It's a bit of a messy web of technologies, but with practice you'll get the ins and outs.

The best place to get started is here: http://www.w3schools.com/

Play around with HTML, try using a CSS template for styling HTML objects, then you could probably get started with a little programming with javascript, then you can start learning some PHP and MySQL programming, which is a fair bit heavier and more involved.

When it comes to the PHP portion of the learning, it would be a good idea to use an Apache/MySQL/PHP bundle like XAMPP, which avoids having to fiddle around with configuring the individual components yourself: http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html

And of course, if you ever get stuck on something, you can always ask here.

[finlay666]

I'd avoid W3C, it's very direct and theoretical I found, I prefer doing by example

I like www.codecademy.com learn by doing the examples on html/javascript/css

[scaryjim]

I've said it before, I'll say it again - hard to go wrong with the SAMS "Teach yourself .... in 24 hours".

To summarise aidanjt's technology list: To learn website design (i.e. how to get text and images in the right places and looking pretty) you'll need to learn HTML and CSS. To do fancy UI changes in real time you'll need to learn some Javascript. Then, to respond to user input/manage data/create high-functionality application, you'll need to learn a server-side programming framework like PHP, Java, ASP.NET etc. If you want to store and retrieve data you'll need to learn SQL and database management, using a database server like MS SQL Server Express or MySQL.

It's a lot of different aspects to pick up on. One option is to specialise in one area: so you could specialise in UI and just learn HTML, CSS and Javascript. Or you could specialise in back-end technologies and learn, say, PHP and MySQL. But there's a certain amount of reward in learning all of the tecnologies together, just for the satisfaction of putting together a website and saying "I did that"

[TheAnimus]

A good question is what do you want to learn, what do you want to be able to do afterwards?

If your like me, its quite hard to learn something for the first time in a theoretical manner, its much easier to do it when you can bite your teeth into it.

Do you have any projects or ideas you want to do? Is there a specific kind of website you want to be able to make or produce?

[AndiWhitts]

Modern web development is actually broken into multiple facets and technologies, and they all compliment each other..

You have the server front-end components, usually just a web server like Apache.. The back-end components, which constitutes a data storage, often some kind of Structured Query Language-based database engine (typically MySQL when using PHP, but there are plenty of choices), and the scripting engine (like PHP) to retrieve and structure the data in a useful way to return it to the web server, which returns that page to the client (web browser), normally this will be HTML, XHTML, or some kind of XML-based abortion.

So that returns the pre-laid-out data to the browser, and usually applying a standard stylisation template using CSS reference by the programmed page returned to the browser, so styles are consistent across pages. And when you want to manipulate the data on the web browser itself, you use JavaScript, which can even update pages without reloading the page using the Document Object Model (DOM) and the XMLHttpRequest Object, colloquially known as AJAX (Asynchronous JavaScript and XML), due in part to its customary XML (or JSON (JavaScript Object Notation)) data interchange between the web server, its back-end components and the web page.

It's a bit of a messy web of technologies, but with practice you'll get the ins and outs.

The best place to get started is here: http://www.w3schools.com/

Play around with HTML, try using a CSS template for styling HTML objects, then you could probably get started with a little programming with javascript, then you can start learning some PHP and MySQL programming, which is a fair bit heavier and more involved.

When it comes to the PHP portion of the learning, it would be a good idea to use an Apache/MySQL/PHP bundle like XAMPP, which avoids having to fiddle around with configuring the individual components yourself: http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html

And of course, if you ever get stuck on something, you can always ask here.

Thanks for such an in depth reply, I have started learning HTML using w3's website and i like the website so far, easy to follow and plenty of information.

And I understand what each part plays now so thanks for that also.

[AndiWhitts]

I'd avoid W3C, it's very direct and theoretical I found, I prefer doing by example

I like www.codecademy.com learn by doing the examples on html/javascript/css

Thanks for your opinion, I'm finding w3 to be good for me at the minute, but I like to use multiple ways to learn something so I may use that website you mentioned alongside w3 to increase my understanding.

[AndiWhitts]

I've said it before, I'll say it again - hard to go wrong with the SAMS "Teach yourself .... in 24 hours".

To summarise aidanjt's technology list: To learn website design (i.e. how to get text and images in the right places and looking pretty) you'll need to learn HTML and CSS. To do fancy UI changes in real time you'll need to learn some Javascript. Then, to respond to user input/manage data/create high-functionality application, you'll need to learn a server-side programming framework like PHP, Java, ASP.NET etc. If you want to store and retrieve data you'll need to learn SQL and database management, using a database server like MS SQL Server Express or MySQL.

It's a lot of different aspects to pick up on. One option is to specialise in one area: so you could specialise in UI and just learn HTML, CSS and Javascript. Or you could specialise in back-end technologies and learn, say, PHP and MySQL. But there's a certain amount of reward in learning all of the tecnologies together, just for the satisfaction of putting together a website and saying "I did that"

Thank you very much for your expnation on what part each language/mark up plays. Aidanjt explained them but the way you worded it in laymans terms helped me fully understand.

And yes I want to say i did it haha eventualy.

[AndiWhitts]

A good question is what do you want to learn, what do you want to be able to do afterwards?

If your like me, its quite hard to learn something for the first time in a theoretical manner, its much easier to do it when you can bite your teeth into it.

Do you have any projects or ideas you want to do? Is there a specific kind of website you want to be able to make or produce?

I have a project I want to start, but also I would like to get certified for the language/markups I learn to use for credibility for freelance work sometime in the future.

The project I am looking to do would require me to create the web page layout and content, have some eye candy, fancy bits and bobs.

So I now know I will need to learn HTML and CSS. But as for the eye candy, I don't know weather to go for java or html5 as I have seen some really good stuff with html5 lately.

[Fortune117]

W3Schools also has a book available if you prefer learning that way. While at college id sit down with this book a couple of nights a week and learn new things all of the time, id then go and try to implement the things that I had learned into a project (at the time it was a website to host all of my college work etc).

I find Web design/development VERY addictive, when I start I end up getting fixated and before long a couple of hours pass. Its a really fun hobby to have and a great skill set if you ever have anybody looking for websites to be developed

[ET3D]

I'm not a web dev, but I've played around with it, and find that knowing the CMS's available and toolkits is pretty valuable. Even if you're doing your own programming, something like jQuery can add a lot to a website.

[TheAnimus]

I have a project I want to start, but also I would like to get certified for the language/markups I learn to use for credibility for freelance work sometime in the future.

The project I am looking to do would require me to create the web page layout and content, have some eye candy, fancy bits and bobs.

So I now know I will need to learn HTML and CSS. But as for the eye candy, I don't know weather to go for java or html5 as I have seen some really good stuff with html5 lately.

I would be wary of certifications. I have none. I'm expected to be able to do a good job due to word of mouth, previous performances and the fact that when interviewed its kinda obvious I know what I claim too on my CV. A certification costs money and for many people having a good project or two completed giving references is worth more. I'd go as far to say as its mostly the people who have a certification who I avoid hiring not even bothering to interview them.

It sounds like your first project will allow you to explore and learn technologies as you go, which is great! Learning a technology is a funny idea really, because its a moving target, new ideas come and go all the time. Often a great technology/design paradigm is completely un-sutiable in differen't project. The best bet is to be really agnostic about certain technologies (or hate them all, just some more than others, like I do, PHP is crap - had to put that in someplace).

Java and html5, I take it you mean Javascript, as Java is kinda dead for presentation stuff. HTML5 is just marketing gumph, it is HTML + Javascript really.

[finlay666]

I would be wary of certifications. I have none. I'm expected to be able to do a good job due to word of mouth, previous performances and the fact that when interviewed its kinda obvious I know what I claim too on my CV. A certification costs money and for many people having a good project or two completed giving references is worth more. I'd go as far to say as its mostly the people who have a certification who I avoid hiring not even bothering to interview them.

To a point, but some qualifications are useful but they are more core system code based over front end stuff like MCPD or some of the BCS ones to show some core level of competency

[SilviuG]

I would be wary of certifications. I have none. I'm expected to be able to do a good job due to word of mouth, previous performances and the fact that when interviewed its kinda obvious I know what I claim too on my CV. A certification costs money and for many people having a good project or two completed giving references is worth more. I'd go as far to say as its mostly the people who have a certification who I avoid hiring not even bothering to interview them.

It sounds like your first project will allow you to explore and learn technologies as you go, which is great! Learning a technology is a funny idea really, because its a moving target, new ideas come and go all the time. Often a great technology/design paradigm is completely un-sutiable in differen't project. The best bet is to be really agnostic about certain technologies (or hate them all, just some more than others, like I do, PHP is crap - had to put that in someplace).

Java and html5, I take it you mean Javascript, as Java is kinda dead for presentation stuff. HTML5 is just marketing gumph, it is HTML + Javascript really.

I would be wary of certifications. I have none. I'm expected to be able to do a good job due to word of mouth, previous performances and the fact that when interviewed its kinda obvious I know what I claim too on my CV. A certification costs money and for many people having a good project or two completed giving references is worth more. I'd go as far to say as its mostly the people who have a certification who I avoid hiring not even bothering to interview them.

It sounds like your first project will allow you to explore and learn technologies as you go, which is great! Learning a technology is a funny idea really, because its a moving target, new ideas come and go all the time. Often a great technology/design paradigm is completely un-sutiable in differen't project. The best bet is to be really agnostic about certain technologies (or hate them all, just some more than others, like I do, PHP is crap - had to put that in someplace).

Java and html5, I take it you mean Javascript, as Java is kinda dead for presentation stuff. HTML5 is just marketing gumph, it is HTML + Javascript really.

I have quite a few comments here. I agree that it must be mentioned that JavaScript and Java have nothing in common, different products.

However, saying PHP is crap might be misleading, would you tell him is not worth learning PHP? That would be a huge mistake, in my opinion, as PHP is the most popular and why not powerful server-side scripting language. It might be crap for you, but I bet you use it, and for me, it just works, connecting me to my database in less then 10 lines of code.

Certifications might not impress you, but looking at the job market, all web developer jobs pay around the minimum wage. In my opinion, one of the reasons for that is the large array of people that do this jobs enthusiastically without having proper qualifications. They feel they got a job they like easy, and are happy to get minimum wage. Others might have spent 3-5 years in higher education and might want something back, after all they spent a lot of money for the school. No way I would just skip someone just because they have a diploma. That just doesn't make sense. That might be a sign the person is really committed to that career path and took the effort to get certifications while maybe working.

What I would do, to answer the original question, just start learning html and everything else will come naturally. Any HTML book will have a chapter on JavaScript, so here you go, now you are learning JavaScript. Any book will probably mention for databases you need sql and PHP, so here you go, you are learning those before you know it. HTML is the start. Don't worry about 5, 4 or what version it is. Just do it.

[finlay666]

However, saying PHP is crap might be misleading, would you tell him is not worth learning PHP? That would be a huge mistake, in my opinion, as PHP is the most popular and why not powerful server-side scripting language. It might be crap for you, but I bet you use it, and for me, it just works, connecting me to my database in less then 10 lines of code.

I bet (well know for a fact) he doesn't

As for simplicity in code... I can create a connect instance to a database in 1 line of code using C# and ASP.Net, with or without an object mapper attached, it's not that difficult in any language.

Certifications might not impress you, but looking at the job market, all web developer jobs pay around the minimum wage. In my opinion, one of the reasons for that is the large array of people that do this jobs enthusiastically without having proper qualifications. They feel they got a job they like easy, and are happy to get minimum wage. Others might have spent 3-5 years in higher education and might want something back, after all they spent a lot of money for the school. No way I would just skip someone just because they have a diploma. That just doesn't make sense. That might be a sign the person is really committed to that career path and took the effort to get certifications while maybe working.

Your opinion doesnt reflect the reality unfortunately.

A degree shows you lasted 3-4 years in paid further eucation, not any skill or real interest in the area. Our lead multimedia dev doesnt have a university degree but his skills easily surpass that of most (actually pretty much all) front end developers I know because he is sh*t hot at what he does.

We updated our hiring process to include a 'take home' web exam. Nothing complex, just showing knowledge of the technology and a part to encourage creativity and flair... want to know how well most graduates did?

They didnt finish it. Most didn't even bother to return it. A degree is nothing compared to demonstratable skill and enthusiasm (one student who came in didnt even want to be a developer).

I guess you are looking at different web developer roles in terms of the salary, all the ones I see in areas I'm skilled in are considerably higher than that, PHP ones are typically lower from experience because of the abundance of the skill

[Nexicorum]

I've read through every single post on this one. And I've decided to go with W3Schools and Code academy to learn CSS/HTML. Thanks a bunch peeps