Programming & Graphics - Potential Career+Hobby?

[krazy_olie]

When I was graduating I had a look at the gaming industry and it looked like a complete mess and not a very secure place to work, though potentially very enjoyable ( I had a lot of fun on my uni games project).
As it is I ended up at the very low level end of the industry (chips). I don't have to deal much too much with the graphics end of things too much as by the time things get to my bit of the chip everything's already been processed. The higher level the more you have to think about graphics rather just a processor. So driver/compiler guys have to worry more about d3d/opengl than people working on the chip itself.

A lot of people recruited here have degrees in things like computer gaming.

So, the hardware end of things could be something of interest, though you are unlikely to have much artistic licence unless you work on developing demos etc

[scaryjim]

... Other than that I'm sure someone will say to learn Java

If they do, slap them upside the head. Unless you want to grind boring code into financial management systems and wear a tie 8 hours a day, of courese

I can't think of any good reason to learn Java if you want to do game development.

Well, unless you want to write apps for Android, I suppose

[TheAnimus]

Nothing wrong with Java, so long as it is still 2004.

[mikeo01]

From C++, C# is a nice easy transition and there is plenty that use it cross platform with XNA and Mono (including iOS and Android) for games, Python is a useful one to know as well with it's use in script based games. Other than that I'm sure someone will say to learn Java

Thanks, I guess I am heading in the right direction then. I'll give Python ago once I have grasped C++/C#.

So, the hardware end of things could be something of interest, though you are unlikely to have much artistic licence unless you work on developing demos etc

Funny enough before deciding on my uni project I looked into hardware design. Mainly programming with VHDL. But I left that idea as basically I am not THAT clever hardware does interest me, however as a career path I am not too sure.

I can't think of any good reason to learn Java if you want to do game development.

Java was my original language choice, then I realised fundamentally it doesn't necessarily lead me anywhere nor actually be useful for my project.



By the way purely for my university project does anyone have any good guides/books to help me with C++? I've only ever designed console applications and moving to Windows applications sounds daunting At some stage I will need to design some sort of graphics and GUI for it anyway.

[krazy_olie]

If you're going to develop for android then learning java is a must.

It's a good way to learn OOP. C++ is some sort of Frankenstein's monster in comparison and you're better off starting off on a model langauge. I found having learned C and Java originally C++ came easily. At work I use C++ almost exclusively (there's some SystemC in there and the odd bit of scripting).

[TheAnimus]

I wouldn't learn C++ for writing windows applications. TBH few people use C++ for company applications, sure the new version is getting better (lambdas etc) but it is a very verbose, unhelpful beast.

C# is a good one to learn, as is something a bit more functional like Scala or F#. Additionally having a play with something like node.js isn't going to do any harm.

C++ is one of those languages, it is undeniably powerful, its just I never find myself wanting to use it. C# on the other hand is just bliss, even if I do find myself having dreams of Scala.

[krazy_olie]

Funny enough before deciding on my uni project I looked into hardware design. Mainly programming with VHDL. But I left that idea as basically I am not THAT clever hardware does interest me, however as a career path I am not too sure.

To work on VHDL/actual hardware you really need a digital electronics background, it would be difficult to come at it from a software perspective. I eventually gave up on VHDL/verilog work as you really need to think differently and although I was competent I wasn't particularly good. So now I work one level up - on a simulator, which is a software model that does almost exactly what the hardware does but in C++ rather than VHDL, it's as low level as you can get without writing actual RTL. However within the company many people (or most even) work on much higher level stuff, further away from the hardware on actual graphics issues - so you don't have to work on hardware to work 'in' hardware. Just pointing out another area where you could work in the games/graphics industry but in a more stable environment.

[mikeo01]

At a fundamental level my application is going to contain the usual GUI with functions. But I also will have to learn about memory management, implementing and working with network protocols, threads etc.
Basically I am working with the core program to communicate on both the network layer and application layer.

Basically would C# be much easier to use in terms with all the features I am looking at? Or even implement C# for the GUI into a C++ project

And also in terms of the usual behind the scenes management could I ultimately fall back on C++ without any trouble after learning C#?

[TheAnimus]

Fall back on C++ from C# ? (C# is afterall C++++ with the + stacked to make the # logo, arrogant language designers)

It is horrible. Every time I do something in C++ its verbose, ugly and slow to write. For most things I've come across the performance of a managed language is more than enough. As the performance bottlenecks are almost always design issues.

C# doesn't rot the brain in the way say PHP does, so you can move to any other language without having terrible practices. However I think its fairly clear that a lot of the more interesting languages are becoming more mainstream. Ultimately everyones computer today or mobile phone has 4 bloody logical processors. Writing pure procedural code isn't helpful. So some people use something like the Actor Paradigm (in say GO) or use something like the Reactive Extensions in .Net or JavaScript.

Yes C++ will still be there, but it's still going to be the reserve of the database engineer / games programmer, doing something algorithmically simple, but very fast. Meanwhile all the other ones of doing something that is a large complex thing, built of many smaller parts and is ultimately gluing stuff together, the higher level languages rock.

[mikeo01]

To work on VHDL/actual hardware you really need a digital electronics background, it would be difficult to come at it from a software perspective. I eventually gave up on VHDL/verilog work as you really need to think differently and although I was competent I wasn't particularly good. So now I work one level up - on a simulator, which is a software model that does almost exactly what the hardware does but in C++ rather than VHDL, it's as low level as you can get without writing actual RTL. However within the company many people (or most even) work on much higher level stuff, further away from the hardware on actual graphics issues - so you don't have to work on hardware to work 'in' hardware. Just pointing out another area where you could work in the games/graphics industry but in a more stable environment.

That sounds like a very interesting area to work. Working with hardware in that sense sounds good

Fall back on C++ from C# ? (C# is afterall C++++ with the + stacked to make the # logo, arrogant language designers)

It is horrible. Every time I do something in C++ its verbose, ugly and slow to write. For most things I've come across the performance of a managed language is more than enough. As the performance bottlenecks are almost always design issues.

C# doesn't rot the brain in the way say PHP does, so you can move to any other language without having terrible practices. However I think its fairly clear that a lot of the more interesting languages are becoming more mainstream. Ultimately everyones computer today or mobile phone has 4 bloody logical processors. Writing pure procedural code isn't helpful. So some people use something like the Actor Paradigm (in say GO) or use something like the Reactive Extensions in .Net or JavaScript.

Yes C++ will still be there, but it's still going to be the reserve of the database engineer / games programmer, doing something algorithmically simple, but very fast. Meanwhile all the other ones of doing something that is a large complex thing, built of many smaller parts and is ultimately gluing stuff together, the higher level languages rock.

Isn't C# similar to Java. Anyway I haven't set myself a dead straight goal to implement a GUI, however it would look better on my behalf

I would eventually be using my programming skills in a networking environment (as that's my degree); back end stuff. Which I assume would require a low level language?

[TheAnimus]

C# is similar to Java? Well they are both C like languages, have OO principles and memory management, but that's about it.

'Networking Environment'? What do you mean by that? If you are envisioning managed switches then its going to be a bit differen't to say RabbitMQ (which is written in Erlang, a high level language).

Both are still networking!

If its a course like:
http://www.bcu.ac.uk/_media/docs/Com...9-criteria.pdf
Then it really isn't education, its just training, and looking at their graduation stats it isn't exactly good at that!

I guess what I mean is there aren't many jobs for people programming ARP mediation for IPv4. Would it really be worth limiting the field.

Depending on how much freedom you have to choose modules, I'd recommend trying to get some general ones, over the esoteric, unless you've a good plan as to why it would help out.

I'll be honest, as someone who's hiring again soon, I'd pretty much expect it. For example anyone who's done that BCU course I linked above, I'd probably have to reject, unless they've studied basic algorithms outside of class. Someone who is specialist but can't tell me the best way for navigating a B tree, why we structure in a hashtable or similar is useless as a computer scientist.

[mikeo01]

Well, I mean software tools to aid in networking. Analytic tools mainly.
Well what I have at the moment is Cisco CCNA. From my university course it's all over the place. I've got the ability to implement web technologies, HTML, CSS (you'll disapprove, PHP ) but also we've covered programming with C++ and managing servers (namely Windows 2008 R2).

We'll be studying and developing routing algorithms next year.


I've taught myself pretty much everything; so I am looking to advance my skills in an area that'll be useful. What I mean by that I don't want to come out of uni and scratch my head at new methods or terms.

As I've said earlier also, I want to learn and develop my own game the hard way as I have to be completely honest, (won't name the university) the university is teaching me diddly squat. What I am saying is, they haven't exactly prepared us well
In terms of computing I am not at the point I want to be. That's why I want to learn something that is recognised and useful not just for my personal interest and hobby but also employers, if you see where I am coming from

[TheAnimus]

Right, this might be the whole hindsight is 20/20 and makes me sound like a right see you next tuesday, but a computer science degree, without accreditation from the BCS, 9 times out of 10, isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

So this means you've got to do some more leg work yourself, not a problem so long as you do it.

If you've got a CCNA it's training. You've an industry thing that means you can work in IT as an administrator. If you combine that with management it's not that bad for pay. But you can't just walk in as a contractor charging £500 to configure a managed switch.

If this means its software you want to do, then get programming. I'd say pick what it is you'll be motivated to see through to the end, rather than a technology first.

Otherwise it's a bit like saying "well I've got this sledge hammer, must be something I can make with it".

Ignoring that line it might be worth building on something you know a bit, say if you were making a monitoring thing, make the front end in a web technology that is well designed, like MVC4 Razor.

[mikeo01]

Sorry I may have worded it wrongly. It is accredited from the BCS.

Thank you very much for your help everything is a lot less blurry

Hmm thanks for the suggestion I could well use MVC4 Razor. I could easily use that in conjunction with a bit of back end C++ code to calculate things. I only need to capture and send packets.

Your advice is much appreciated

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Bsc computer science is a waste of time. Ended up teaching myself

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Bsc computer science is a waste of time. Ended up teaching myself

Edit. C# syntax is very similar to java