How is this possible?

[Pablo1870]

Hello all,

Can any PSU experts help figure this mystery out?

How is this possible?

This PSU:PCD010

Comes inside this machine: HP 500-319na

Before anyone asks why I'm not doing a self build - if I go for it, it will only be used as a htpc.

I cannot work out how it is possible to run this spec on only 180W. Is there something fishy going on here? Is the machine being underpowered?

Does it look like the 12vb rail has been excluded from the wattage calculation?

To deepen the msystery - I then saw this: 3rd Party Lab - Load Analysis

I just can't work out the discrepancy. A 180W psu for an ATX system running an i5 - can't work out whats really going on.

Is there any chance i could add an MX100 (256 SSD) to this without changing the PSU?

My sincere thanks to anyone that's willing to contribute in solving this.

Pablo1870

[DanceswithUnix]

Top edit: I see a related post is: http://forums.hexus.net/pre-built-co...d-you-buy.html


A lot of cheap PCs assume you will never upgrade it.

That way you need 65W to run the CPU with integrated graphics, maybe 10W for the ram, another 20W for a couple of hard drives (they idle at less, but you have to spin them up to speed). In this case it has a puny 48 shader Fermi graphics card in it, that won't use much, it isn't capable of much.

180W is quite possible. Not recommended, but in a race to the bottom of low cost cheap machines it happens.

For an htpc, that seems really poor value.

Edit to add: Yes, adding an SSD should be possible. They only draw about 5W.

Another edit: That GT705 graphics is 29W, so well in power budget.

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/257...ce-gt-705.html


Perhaps take a step back though, tell us what you want your HTPC to be capable of, and you might get pointed at something more suitable that saves you space and money (like an NUC build).

[scaryjim]

If you fully load both 12v rails you'll pull 204W. Presumably, however, the PSU has overload protection that cuts out at 180W total draw.

tbh, I trust that far more than a PSU "rated" at 400W where the total draw from all the individual lines adds up to less than 400W. It's those kinds of PSU that have encouraged this thinking that you need a large PSU - but that's because a lot of "400W" PSUs can't actually supply much more than 200W reliably.

Read a few Hexus reviews and you'll see how little power modern PCs need: an i7 4770k plus Radeon R9 270 only pull 153w from the wall while playing Far Cry 3 - that's probably no more than 140W DC draw so that rig could potentially run on a 180W PSU. A low-power i5 (the S versions, as DwU said, are 65W rather than 84W) and an entry level discrete card? They'll have no problem.

[abaxas]

It's called arse covering as no-one knows if someone is going to build a pc with a good PSU or a rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishtech one.

TBH most enthusiast grade psus are in the rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishtech catagory.

[Pablo1870]

Top edit: I see a related post is: http://forums.hexus.net/pre-built-co...d-you-buy.html

A lot of cheap PCs assume you will never upgrade it.

That way you need 65W to run the CPU with integrated graphics, maybe 10W for the ram, another 20W for a couple of hard drives (they idle at less, but you have to spin them up to speed). In this case it has a puny 48 shader Fermi graphics card in it, that won't use much, it isn't capable of much.

180W is quite possible. Not recommended, but in a race to the bottom of low cost cheap machines it happens.

For an htpc, that seems really poor value.

Edit to add: Yes, adding an SSD should be possible. They only draw about 5W.

Another edit: That GT705 graphics is 29W, so well in power budget.

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/257...ce-gt-705.html


Perhaps take a step back though, tell us what you want your HTPC to be capable of, and you might get pointed at something more suitable that saves you space and money (like an NUC build).

Uses: All round family PC for everyone from parents (in their 50's), to myself.

Running multiple real time security software programs, no gaming, mainly administrative use.

HTPC - watching movies, browsing internet, word, excel etc. music, family videos.

No video editing.

Yes it might be overpowered fornow, but im looking at how long I can keep it before needing to replace it.

DanceswithUnix, you mentioned that you think its poor value. Please help me understand why?

scaryjim - what is your opinion on adding an ssd. Overall would I be coming close to the edge, or would there be some headroom left over?

Im genuinely greatfully for your contribution, please keep them coming.

I'd welcome any other opinions too!

Pablo.

[Domestic_Ginger]

rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishtech^TM

Should patent it fast

Ssd will draw 2w. By no means a deal breaker.

[Pablo1870]

agreed!

[scaryjim]

scaryjim - what is your opinion on adding an ssd. Overall would I be coming close to the edge, or would there be some headroom left over?

Close to the edge? Sure, in the same way Birmingham is close to the sea That rig isn't going to pull as much as 100W unless you deliberately pile it up with stress-testing utilities to fully load every piece of hardware. And perhaps not even then. Your SSD won't make the blindest bit of difference to the PSU.

[Pablo1870]

scaryjim,

You bring up a very important point. As it is a refurb, I think its best I stress test it before adding ssd.

How much headroom do you estimate there is between max load draw, and psu capability?

Pablo

[DanceswithUnix]

DanceswithUnix, you mentioned that you think its poor value. Please help me understand why?

Two reasons, one of which turns out not to be right.

The link says £500, but in the other post you say £300. For £300 it is OK.

Other reason is that I think it is unbalanced, just like most pre-built PCs. It put huge emphesis on the CPU so that is where most of the money has gone, and the utter bare minimum GPU just so that they can tick a box saying it has a discrete graphics card. Really, unless you specifically want to use Nvidia drivers (eg you are running Linux) then such a low end card is pretty pointless and you may as well stick to integrated graphics. If you go the integrated graphics route, then there are nicer more compact SFF boxes that you can get.

Not convinced of running multiple security programs either btw, I see it as a guarantee to get the worst parts of every product you load up, and if it gets through one decent security product then malware will probably waltz past the rest as well so double the security programs does not mean double the strength of security, just double the performance penalty.

[Ulti]

180W isn't a problem at all.

My desktop build with an i5 4570, 16GB DDR3 RAM along with 2x 256GB SSDs and a GTX750Ti was using 120W load before and on idle and normal desktop tasks it'd draw between 30-50W.

Power efficiency has come a long way.

Even with a top mid range graphics card (R9 280X), I'm idling around the same and in games it'd get to around 170W-250W depending on the game and up to 300W on load. I'm running it on a 530W PSU which is already pretty overkill but I believe most PSUs perform most efficiently when they're loaded up to 50% and in my case it's around that mark.

If you haven't bought that refurb machine already it's definitely worth considering an Intel NUC. I got my parents an Intel NUC with an i3 for £125. Added in 4GB RAM for £20 at that time then a 120GB SSD for £50. Put your OS of choice on there and that's pretty much the completed build. It runs their Excel bookkeeping and media streaming needs completely fine.

[Pablo1870]

I want to express my appreciation to each of you that have taken the effort to contribbute.

Thank you.

I ended up getting this machine:

http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04343438

For £268 - refurbished, from Pc World. 12 montths warranty.

For that price, I couldnt say no!

Serious question - ther're refurb units - needing a burn-in/stress-test.

I'm asking for advice on how to stress test them competently and thoroughly (without the stress test breaking the machine).

P.

[Ulti]

You can download Intel XTU to stress test the system:
http://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/u...g-utility.html

[DanceswithUnix]

I'm asking for advice on how to stress test them competently and thoroughly (without the stress test breaking the machine).

P.

I think I can safely say that no modern system should be damaged by running software.

memtest86 is always my first call on a machine, and I leave it running all night.