Political Lies

[maenon]

I found out just the other day that there is a legal loophole which means that MPs are allowed to lie to the electorate, and even lie within the houses of parliament...
An obvious example of why this is really dodgy is the various bogus reasons to invade Iraq: they could say whatever they liked without any fear of eventual prosecution.
This is not the case with any other sector of society -- if a corporation lies to its customers in order to sell a product, it is prosecuted. Apparently our votes are less important than our shopping...

[timread]

This is true, although there are some caveats - MPs can still be dismissed for misleading the house, giving false evidence etc. Not arrested though!

This link has a good explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_privilege

[maenon]

Weird coincidence - I was reading that article earlier! Apparently there is a committee on standards in public life which is supposed to monitor parliament...the only problem is that they have to report and make recommendations to the PM who can then decide whether or not to do anything about it. There is something more than a little fishy about this!

[iranu]

What is even more insidious is that the PM has recently dismissed the chairman (Sir Alistair Graham) of the Committee on Standards in Public Life.

[GrahamGarside]

Big surprise that the people who write the law have done so to suit them

[maenon]

Yes, Graham hasn't been very satisfied with the current government:

"The Committee was disappointed that the current Government did not take the opportunity to put this mechanism [Committee believes that allegations against Ministers should be considered by members of an independent panel, drawn up in agreement with the Opposition, which would be ready to act whenever an allegation is made.] in place, particularly as it provides speedy and independent investigation of allegations against Ministers. Current events demonstrate the continuing practical relevance of adopting these recommendations."

..and now he's going even though a replacement hasn't been arranged by the PM (very dodgy).

I got all this info from a really interesting site: mo-truth.blogspot.com. They have created an act called the 'Misrepresentation of the People act' (to prosecute politicians who lie) and they are trying to find an MP who'll help them get it passed theough parliament. They've interviewed various MPs and put the footage up on the site. Apparently Alistair Graham has agreed to an interview with them!

[cheetahdavie]

Got to smile..politicians telling lies.god forbid!
Im a" straight" kinda guy..oh my god?Whiter than white..Gordon Bennet[Or Brown!]People really believe that Labour means working class!
I go back a long way..to the goverment after the war..for whatever reason we voted in Attlee instead of Winston..I have seen every government since ..and the labour goverments have been very poor[I even voted for Harold..once?]
But this one is without doubt the worst of any.
A prime minister..wow..but better than the "promised one"1 in 5 voted for this guy..i think they should be made to clean the toilets every night..as for the 4 in 5 who didnt vote.you should be ashamed cos its really YOUR FAULT

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by cheetahdavie

........ A prime minister..wow..but better than the "promised one"1 in 5 voted for this guy..i think they should be made to clean the toilets every night..as for the 4 in 5 who didnt vote.you should be ashamed cos its really YOUR FAULT

I agree with your sentiments, but the maths is a bit off.

It's true, that only about 1 in 5 of the electorate voted for Labour last time, but it was a little over 35% of those that voted.

Turnout was 61.28% which, while still pretty dire by historical standards, suggests that it was closer to 1 in 3 that didn't vote, not 4 in 5.

Having said that, I can't even really condemn those that didn't vote. Somewhat reluctantly, I did vote, but only because despite not wanting to, I couldn't quite bring myself not to.

But the system is rigged. Not just in terms of boundary selections etc, and of course the distorting effects of first past the post, but in the sense that we now have a professional political class, most of whom don't actually believe in anything much other than getting elected. It doesn't, it seems to me, actually make much if a difference who is elected, because we know full well that Government is going to come from one of two (or perhaps it's vaguely possible at some point in the future, one of three). Voting for pretty much anyone else, in England anyway, is little more than a protest vote anyway and a pretty futile one at that.

However, not voting at all, when it happens in such large numbers does at least tell that professional political class one thing .... increasing numbers (and large numbers) of the population aren't impressed with ANY of you.

Given that I think they're all a bunch a self-serving, power-hungry unprincipled ******s, if I'm to be expected to exercise my democratic right and do my democratic duty by voting, just who the hell am I supposed to vote for?

If I do vote, all I do is lend my vote to the argument that I endorse the process by which our government is elected ... and I don't. It's rigged .... by the nature of the system and the mechanics of it. It's not a true democracy at all. It's a once every five years conjuring trick by which the people we have running the country can claim to have a mandate to rule. For instance, I have no direct say in who runs the government, who is appointed minister, who is even appointed to the ever-increasing and ever more powerful raft of quangos. All I can do is express my view in who "represents" my constituency. But the party whip system ensures that the vast majority of the time, my "representative" doesn't actually represent even my constituency, let alone my views. He (or she) does what he's damn well told by the whips, who do what they're told by government. That isn't representative democracy - it's a national con-job, a conjuring trick.

[maenon]

You could always vote for the Blah! party

I think democracy needs to be brought back to the political system through making politicians more accountable for their actions. It seems to have been forgotten that politicians are supposed to be serving the wishes of the people, not themselves. They should be honest and transparent when in office and if they are not, they should be threatened with prosecution...this is what happens in other fields i.e. business.

[YorkieBen]

I think our system is great. proportional repesentation just leads to weak coalitions where nothing ever gets done and the resulting governments are essentially undemocratic

[pollaxe]

Usually I will always vote, I've never missed voting in an election yet. However, I'm strongly considering exercising my right not to vote for the next one. I really am disillusioned with the lot of 'em, to be perfectly honest.

[kalniel]

Then at least go and spoil your ballot paper. Better would be to vote for the least bad option.

[pollaxe]

Well if I go (and it's a pretty big if at the moment) I'd probably vote for a party I don't particularly like. However, they've got the best chance to remove the current imcumbent (who's an idiot.)

I'm still far from convinced that I will vote and believe me, I'm not happy with that state of affairs.

[maenon]

I think that spoiling your ballot paper is a better idea than voting for a party that will simply 'do'...it would give the right message out to politicians i.e. that they need to do better

[maenon]

By the way, has anyone had a look at the 'Misrepresentation of the People act' yet? Here it is:

mo-truth.blogspot.com/2007/03/misrepresentation-of-people-act-mk-2

I think this would be the best way of restoring democracy to the British political system...politicians need to be held accountable for their actions. Anyhow, the site have posted a link up today to an existing law in southern Australia that is very similar to the misrep act and seems to be working for them. Here's the 'Electoral Act 1985':

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/s...ea1985103/s113

[kalniel]

Originally Posted by maenon

I think that spoiling your ballot paper is a better idea than voting for a party that will simply 'do'...it would give the right message out to politicians i.e. that they need to do better

I'm not sure it would. It would be used to try and justify bigger expenses on TV adverts to get people to go and vote.

I think voting for the least bad option sends a better message - others will want to try and turn your vote to their party next time because it counts twice - they're getting a vote AND denying the competition a vote.