The English...Do we really have an identity crisis?

[Stewart]

Originally Posted by schmunk

For reference, my son's British too.

No he's not, he's English. If his parents are English, and he was born in England, he is English.

British is a myth. Nobody knows what it actually means. The Romans have left, Britania is no more.

[Stewart]

Originally Posted by TooNice

But politically, the Americans has their own president, and Canada their own PM. The UK though has one Prime Minister and one Queen (in modern time, more specifically, one reigning Monarch - if I am not mistaken).

Well, Canada has the same Queen as us - the Queen. Does that mean we come from the same country?

I think Blitzen summed it up best: Im English, i was born in England, raised in England, support English teams (not British Teams).

Unless someone can fill in the blanks.

'I was born in England, raised in England, live in England, work in England, but I am not English because...'

[JK Ferret]

Originally Posted by Stewart

'I was born in England, raised in England, live in England, work in England, but I am not English because...'

saying I'm British is as good a reason as any to get into a good old argument

[Stewart]

Good, good.

[TooNice]

Originally Posted by Stewart

British is a myth. Nobody knows what it actually means. The Romans have left, Britania is no more.

If we can define 'Great Britain', then 'British' is pretty much defined at least according to two sources (dictionary.com and Oxford dictionary). Both sources relate the term back to Great Britain.

I am at a loss as to why it is difficult to accept that British is simply a broader term that encompass the inhabitants of the various countries forming the UK as it is recognised internationally. So an Englishman British, but a British doesn't necessarily mean English.

One of the thing I did not say before (because the post was getting too long), is that yes, someone born of born in England of English parents, raised in England in England, and living in England is not likely to suffer from any identity crisis. Said individual is not likely going to think that s/he is Scottish or Welsh but English (though again, I see nothing wrong if the individual choose to define him/herself as 'British'). But what if the father is Welsh, mother is English, s/he is born and lived in Scotland for a few years, before moving to Northern Ireland, and eventually went to work in the Republic of Ireland? Said individual, I'd say, is entitled to have an identity crisis if s/he chose to, and I don't think that it becomes a straight forward to categorise any longer. And while the example I made up is probably very unusual, I reckon that even less extreme cases can be difficult to categorise.

[stevie lee]

i am english for a few reasons..

i talk louder at foreigners if they don't understand what i just said. and talk slower too. (thanks staffsmike)

i was born in southport, parents were from preston and southport, 1 grand-parent from essex. which means i am 1/2 southport 1/4 preston 1/4 essex.

the origin of my surname is english http://genealogy.about.com/library/s...l_name-LEE.htm

my family fought on the side of the confederates in the US civil war, got a car name after us for our efforts youtube - General Lee - can't get more english than that, we lost at something and are proud about it.

but the biggest reason is because i say so..

edit: just noticed this is question time section.. dont normally get involved in debates and things, i'll go now before i look foolish.

[staffsMike]

Originally Posted by stevie lee

i am english for a few reasons..

i talk louder at foreigners if they don't understand what i just said.

Ans slower I hope, don't let the side down

Originally Posted by stevie lee

i was born in southport, parents were from preston and southport, 1 grand-parent from essex. which means i am 1/2 southport 1/4 preston 1/4 essex.

the origin of my surname is english http://genealogy.about.com/library/s...l_name-LEE.htm

Essex.. Lee*.. A match made in heaven. Do you enjoy Fords?

*I know it's your surname and that is a first name sterotype but nevermind

[stevie lee]

dad had a mk2 cosworth, granada and mondeo estate. i've driven a fiesta, focus and mondeo.. so you could say i like fords.


back to the original question about english identity crisis..

say someone is born in england, then moves to a foreign country and decides to stay there - applies for citizenship. do they still count themselves as english, or do they start saying "i'm an aussie/canadian/russian" if someone asks where are they from?

[staffsMike]

I always feel the "Where are you from?" question applies to where you were born. So I would say England. Or if it was an English person asking me, I would tell them where in England.

If you live in a new country that is where you live.. not where you are from.

[coco]

english ? who are these english, me im a northumbrian, or a bernician

[schmunk]

Originally Posted by Stewart

No he's not, he's English. If his parents are English, and he was born in England, he is English.

British is a myth. Nobody knows what it actually means. The Romans have left, Britania is no more.

When Westminster rules only England.
When the royal family are the royal family of England (or not at all)
When it's English Airways, English Gas, ET etc.
When we cheer on Team England at the Olympics.
When this page stops existing on Wikipedia (and this page, for good measure).

...then I might start saying that I'm English. For the moment, however, I recognise myself as being a citizen of the contiguous landmass at which on a map one may point, called Great Britain.

[Stewart]

Originally Posted by schmunk

When we cheer on Team England at the Olympics.

English national football team.

Scotish national football team.

Welsh national football team.

You are British so best you support each of them by 1/3rd.

Go Great Britain football team!

[Stewart]

Originally Posted by schmunk

...then I might start saying that I'm English. For the moment, however, I recognise myself as being a citizen of the contiguous landmass at which on a map one may point, called Great Britain.

Yes mate, but said contiguous landmass on said map is made up of England, Scotland and Wales. Different countries.

Just wondering why you see yourself as being from all of them?

[Blitzen]

What about Scily Isles.
What about the Falklands.
What about Gibraltar.

All have the same monarchy. (Although has little baring on being English as there is Oz and Canada to argue that point.
All have the same currency.
All have the same breweries (yes they do )


Lastly...language.
Native language of Wales??? Is it English? Nope
Native Language of Scotland and Ireland?? Gaelic isn't it?
Native language of England?? You guessed it.

During your exams at school, did you take tests in British Lit and Language or English Lit and Language.

...then I might start saying that I'm English. For the moment, however, I recognise myself as being a citizen of the contiguous landmass at which on a map one may point, called Great Britain.

Thats doesnt hold water in the argument.
As i said Gibraltar. Same land mass as Spain but they dont consider themselves Spaniards. (By the same token they dont consider themselves Irish, Scottish or Welsh either)

Lastly...what about the term 'United Kingdom?
I think that describes these isles better.
As as with the term Britain, its used ONLY to describe something we do as an Island..........not what we are.

[schmunk]

Originally Posted by Blitzen

Lastly...language.
Native language of Wales??? Is it English? Nope
Native Language of Scotland and Ireland?? Gaelic isn't it?
Native language of England?? You guessed it.

During your exams at school, did you take tests in British Lit and Language or English Lit and Language.

First language of the vast majority of people living in Wales? English
First language of the vast majority of people living in Scotland? English
First language of the vast majority of people living in Northern Ireland? English
First language of the vast majority of people living in Republic of Ireland? English
First language of the vast majority of people living in the USA? English
First language of the vast majority of people living in Canada? English
First language of the vast majority of people living in Australia? English
First language of the vast majority of people living in New Zealand? English

Are these people all English? Your argument holds no water.

[schmunk]

Originally Posted by Stewart

English national football team.

Scotish national football team.

Welsh national football team.

You are British so best you support each of them by 1/3rd.

Go Great Britain football team!

I would quite happily support a British team, even going so far as to say prefer, as it would likely be better than the current England team. Just think, with Ryan Giggs available there wouldn't have been the left wing problems that dogged England for so long...

It's just a shame that such a team won't be playing at the 2012 Olympics, because of the bigotry and fear of each FA.