Would you carry a gun?

[oolon]

Do you not think that watching a man wandering streets with an AK-47 gunning down civilians might make you a little less partial to guns?

Actually it makes me wish I had a gun to shoot back with.

[snootyjim]

Perhaps, but I'd rather not help to arm his fellow nutters.

[TheAnimus]

Do you not think that watching a man wandering streets with an AK-47 gunning down civilians might make you a little less partial to guns?

I didn't think it was an AK-47?

My point is that we have gun laws, and in the same way that one event, a black swan so to speak, shouldn't enter in to the debate about road safety, nor should it knee jerk into this one.

Hungerford was tragic, but lets keep some perspective here, the same number of people are killed on average every 2 days on the road. Yet we are not talking about tightening up driving tests, bringing in refresher courses or harsher penalties for those caught driving whilst under the influence of drugs/alcohol.

More people will die each year due to very bad diet, yet we are not doing anything to help educate the parents who think that giving their baby a mcDonalds is a good idea.

[scaryjim]

I think we need to make swords legal. Guns are far too impersonal a way to kill. I think people would be less like to pick up a sword and go on a killing spree - for one thing it'd be a lot slower, and for another thing killing someone from 50 feet away is very different to practically having to stick your hand in their guts...

And if we did make swords legal, hell yeah I'd carry one

But not guns. Lordy no. For one thing there'd be a lot of cars stuck on the roads between my home and my work with their tyres shot out... not a good idea, I'm sure.

[oolon]

Swords are legal, you just need a permit to carry one in public. Normally you can get one of those if you claim it is for "religous" purposes.

[g8ina]

I didn't think it was an AK-47?

Wiki : "At the time of the massacre, he was in licensed possession of the following:
* Zabala shotgun
* Browning shotgun
* Beretta 92 semi-automatic 9 mm pistol
* CZ ORSO semi-automatic .32 pistol
* "Type 56" 7.62x39mm semi-automatic rifle[5] (Chinese copy of the Kalashnikov AK-47)
* M1 Carbine .30 7.62x33mm semi-automatic rifle (a rare "Underwood" model)
Ryan used the Beretta pistol, and the Type 56 and M1 rifles, in the massacre."

So, yes, effectively it was an AK47 !

My point regarding cars and caravans in your example stands : no one deliberately drove at anyone with the intent to kill.

[TheAnimus]

do you not know the significance of Hungerford wrt guns ?? Or Dunblane ??

Yes, I do. Do you know the significance in the statistical sense of the word of them?

and was this fatal crash deliberate ? or an accident ?

I can only speculate, I would say moronically negligent, bad weather, must have been overtaking almost certainly going to fast for a tow.

Now plenty of people use and own guns legally, per owner, cars over the last 6 months alone (to give more significance to Hungerford!) will have killed more people than legally owned guns.

[TheAnimus]

So, yes, effectively it was an AK47 !

You know absolutely nothing about guns.

go read wikipedia or something.

[g8ina]

You know absolutely nothing about guns.

go read wikipedia or something.

errrrrrrrrrrr, re read my post ????

[TheAnimus]

a Type 56 sports, is not an ak47.

Its semi automatic for a start.....

[g8ina]

Oh and regarding my feelings on this issue, it does tend to colour ones thoughts when one sees one human being deliberately kill another.

I shall say no more.

[TheAnimus]

right, so one person diliberately injurs another with a car and we ban them all?

what about knifes? I for one like my favourate chefs knife to have a sharp tip. The big blade makes it easier to rest against ones knuckles and the length is good for someone who has large hands like me.

plenty of people use those as weapons, lets ban them.

I get very upset by daily mail think of the children crap. It wasn't an ak47, it was a chinese copy sports version designed for sporting specifically, rather than warfare.

[Flash477]

If you carry a gun the chances of you getting shot go up a lot - that's largely because in any kind of struggle the gun can quite easily end up facing you when it goes off!

[oolon]

errrrrrrrrrrr, re read my post ????

The M1 carbine is a very actuate weapon allowing you to put several bullets into the same person. The AK47 is a very inaccurate weapon allowing you to kill many people if a crowd of people ran at you. It is also a very simple design, so can be handled very badly and still shoot forwards. No they are very different weapons. It was like the .22 being described as a "sniper rifle" it wasn't. Still does not stop people being just as scared (with good reason). The Animus however is "technically right", even if what you say g8ina is "Morally right".

[snootyjim]

I didn't think it was an AK-47?

We can talk about technicalities all you want

I'm not a gun enthusiast, it looked like one in the video footage/reconstructions I've seen of the incident. In reality I think he used a whole variety of guns.

My point is that we have gun laws, and in the same way that one event, a black swan so to speak, shouldn't enter in to the debate about road safety, nor should it knee jerk into this one.

Hungerford was tragic, but lets keep some perspective here, the same number of people are killed on average every 2 days on the road. Yet we are not talking about tightening up driving tests, bringing in refresher courses or harsher penalties for those caught driving whilst under the influence of drugs/alcohol.

More people will die each year due to very bad diet, yet we are not doing anything to help educate the parents who think that giving their baby a mcDonalds is a good idea.

I agree completely... I don't think there is any need to tighten restrictions.

But, I think it's a very compelling piece of evidence to suggest that we shouldn't loosen them, and I expect that most people who were closely involved in it would feel the same way - wanting to ensure that guns weren't made easier to get hold of and use.

[scaryjim]

right, so one person diliberately injurs another with a car and we ban them all?

what about knifes? ... plenty of people use those as weapons, lets ban them.

I think the big difference is there's only really one use for a gun. Cars and (most) knives have other primary purposes and are used "out of band" as weapons. Guns are designed to kill.