New York's Gay School - Page 5

DaBeeeenster · 25-09-2003, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Slick
No....as I said social views are changing and when the views have been changed enough, gay people should be allowed to adopt. I just don't think children should be used as a tool to achieve this and put through the bullying, exclusion etc in the process. Do you think this would be fair on the child? In the end I think the child would grow up resenting his parents if this was introduced now and may even develop homophobic ideas of their own.

Personally I think that the potential effects of having gay parents are overplayed in this line of argument. First of all, how are the childs school peers going to know about his/her parents situation?

Do you not think that given the choice of having a family, a home and loving parents and occasionally having to deal with some stick at school by bigots, or not having any parents at all, the child would choose the latter?

DaBeeeenster · 25-09-2003, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Slick
No, but that wasn't the point I was making, did you read my other posts? One of their needs is to be able to live a life without the fear of being bullied, excluded and to be made to feel different from all the other children. I've said allready, if this wasn't an issue I would have no problem with gay people adopting.

ALL children feel different; no child feels normal.

DaBeeeenster · 25-09-2003, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by spikegifted
I guess that's entirely dependent on your view of the child's potential psychological and social developments.

You are inferring here that the development of homosexual feelings is in some way wrong. Personally I think that is bigotted.

http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=bigot

a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

Slick · 25-09-2003, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
Personally I think that the potential effects of having gay parents are overplayed in this line of argument. First of all, how are the childs school peers going to know about his/her parents situation?

Word would soon get around, the child would have to tell one of his/her friends, they can't keep something like this a secret, word would spread. Some of the parents may realise and tell their own children to keep their distance etc. Also this would not only be in the school playground, like I described the situation with my old neighbours, the kids on that street would know. Would you suggest the child should keep a secret and not tell anyone? Surely that would just further the child's opinion that something is wrong with their situation and they have something to hide.

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
Do you not think that given the choice of having a family, a home and loving parents and occasionally having to deal with some stick at school by bigots, or not having any parents at all, the child would choose the latter?

I agree that would be the better option but I don't think this is a choice we have to make, I explained earlier how my aunt and uncle had to go through a years worth of waiting lists etc till they could adopt. IMO there is no shortage of parents willing to adopt.

spikegifted · 25-09-2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
I'm not sure you have answered the question. Would you give a homosexual son the same freedoms you give a heterosexual son? For example, if your heterosexual son was 18 and you allowed them to have their girlfriend stay overnight in his room, would you allow the same freedom to a homosexual son and his boyfriend?

As I've stated, he will continue my support (that's mean all the trappings of other kids with their families), but I'll let him know in private that I don't agree with his developments.

spikegifted · 25-09-2003, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Big RICHARD
What, they might grow up thinking homosexuality is normal??????? My god! We can't have that!

Precisely. And your choice of word is entirely correct - they might.

DaBeeeenster · 25-09-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Slick
Word would soon get around, the child would have to tell one of his/her friends, they can't keep something like this a secret, word would spread. Some of the parents may realise and tell their own children to keep their distance etc. Also this would not only be in the school playground, like I described the situation with my old neighbours, the kids on that street would know. Would you suggest the child should keep a secret and not tell anyone? Surely that would just further the child's opinion that something is wrong with their situation and they have something to hide.

I agree that would be the better option but I don't think this is a choice we have to make, I explained earlier how my aunt and uncle had to go through a years worth of waiting lists etc till they could adopt. IMO there is no shortage of parents willing to adopt.

http://www.doh.gov.uk/adoption/faq.htm#g2

Are there many children available for adoption?

Yes. On 1 July 1999 there were 6,915 children available for adoption. The number of all children who are being adopted has reduced from around 20,000 per year in the 1970s to 4,100 in 1999.

spikegifted · 25-09-2003, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
You are inferring here that the development of homosexual feelings is in some way wrong. Personally I think that is bigotted.

a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

I may be inflexible on this, but if I was willing to change my opinion, you can always turn around and accuse me of being someone who lack conviction in his believes.

DaBeeeenster · 25-09-2003, 01:27 PM

What, so you think you should keep a bigotted view in case someone argues you have a lack of conviction?

Big RICHARD · 25-09-2003, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by spikegifted
Precisely. And your choice of word is entirely correct - they might.

And is there anything wrong with the fact that they may grow up thinking there is nothing wrong with homosexuality?

spikegifted · 25-09-2003, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
What, so you think you should keep a bigotted view in case someone argues you have a lack of conviction?

Originally posted by Big RICHARD
And is there anything wrong with the fact that they may grow up thinking there is nothing wrong with homosexuality?

You can pick and choose when you apply the 'bigot' or 'lack conviction' label when you like. I believes is based on my personal understanding of how nature works.

Big RICHARD · 25-09-2003, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by spikegifted
You can pick and choose when you apply the 'bigot' or 'lack conviction' label when you like. I believes is based on my personal understanding of how nature works.

So these freaks of nature that are homsexuals should be taken into circuses for us all to laugh and marvel at?

Get real!

spikegifted · 25-09-2003, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Big RICHARD
So these freaks of nature that are homsexuals should be taken into circuses for us all to laugh and marvel at?

Get real!

I don't like that. In everything I deal with I try to be as reasonable as possible. You're suggesting that I'm not sensitive to other people's needs and emotions. That is not true. What's more, you're suggesting that I'm incline to make fun or make an example of people who are different from myself or my social group. That's a blatant accusation and I cannot accept that at all. If you can find in any of my posts either in this thread or others that I suggest such behavior is acceptable, please let me know.

DaBeeeenster · 25-09-2003, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by spikegifted
I don't like that. In everything I deal with I try to be as reasonable as possible. You're suggesting that I'm not sensitive to other people's needs and emotions. That is not true. What's more, you're suggesting that I'm incline to make fun or make an example of people who are different from myself or my social group. That's a blatant accusation and I cannot accept that at all. If you can find in any of my posts either in this thread or others that I suggest such behavior is acceptable, please let me know.

You claim to be reasoned and thoughtful, and you claim to being sensitive to people's needs and emotions, yet you admit that if your son was gay you would "take him aside and have a private word" about how you think what he feels about loving people is wrong. Do you not feel this is a hypocritical position?

spikegifted · 25-09-2003, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
You claim to be reasoned and thoughtful, and you claim to being sensitive to people's needs and emotions, yet you admit that if your son was gay you would "take him aside and have a private word" about how you think what he feels about loving people is wrong. Do you not feel this is a hypocritical position?

Take it whatever way you want to take it, but these are the actions that I think I'd do under the stated circumstances. That doesn't mean that I'd stop supporting him.

Don't your parents continue to provide you with support even though they've misgiving on your plans or actions? Is that not compassion, tolerance and understanding? I would not allow myself to be label nor accept being labelled as a hyprocrite when in fact my stated action (hypothetical or otherwise) is consistant - If my son is gay, I don't agree with it; however, it is the duty as a parent to continue provide him with my full support, whatever the circumstances, as long as no laws are broken. It is my personal believe that when this situation arise, parental duty comes before personal opinion.

Likewise, if a friend of mine turn gay, he/she will continue to have my support - while I don't agree with his/her decision/action and they'll know about it. Whether they'd want to continue receiving my friendship, that's entirely up to him/her. May be they feel that I'm not in tune with their true feelings - so be it. He/she is my friend and will continue to be, unless they choose not to.

What I don't like is that Big RICHARD suggests that I'm some kind of bully and like to make fun of people. That, I feel, is an unacceptable accusation and I can't accept that.

Skii · 25-09-2003, 02:32 PM

So - if your son turned around to you one day and said he was gay - you wouldn't be shocked / suprised or dissapointed ?

Honestly ?

I'd throw him out the bloody window - yes he'd still be my son, and yes I'd love him just as much, but I'd be dissapointed - no doubt about it.

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