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Thread: Bloody Tony Blair...

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    G4Z
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    Bloody Tony Blair...

    Right, so I was watching the news a little earlier and there was more news about the London bombings and this thinktanks report this morning that the Iraq war and the war on terror was likely a contributing factor and has made us a target.

    Then I see that Tony is "very Angry" and has "dismissed" the claims.

    Im sorry what?

    Did I hear that right?

    If anybody should be angry its us, the general public that have to listen to his constant rhetoric and "say it enough and people will belive you" bollocks. Not to mention all the relatives of the people killed who lost people in these explosions.

    Im sorry Tony, but thinking Iraq had somthing to do with it is a perfectly valid point of view, after all we directly/indirectly killed 10,000 Iraqis why are we so shocked that this could radicalise some muslims into attacking us back? pretty logical I would think.

    Of course that doesnt fit his political agenta (dodging the responsabillity, as usualy even though apparently when we went to war that was his decision and his responsabillity).

    I hate Tony Blair. I do, I really do.
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    I don't, but i don't know how the iraq war didnt increase our chances of a terrorist attack.

    Ed

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    TiG
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    g4z, they came from this country is the point. Thats why i think he's defending it.

    TiG
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    People give him too much stick, I don't like Labour but Blair himself is a good guy with the right aims, much like George Bush.

    Everyone else seems to hate them but I think they are give to much stick, they are good guys who try to do what is right.

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    Goat Boy
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    Jack Straw was at it today too:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlo...531005,00.html

    I mean, come on, you can turn the question round. Do you think the war in Iraq has reduced the likelihood of a terrorist attack in the UK? I think the answer to that question is pretty clear IMHO.
    "All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBeeeenster
    Jack Straw was at it today too:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlo...531005,00.html

    I mean, come on, you can turn the question round. Do you think the war in Iraq has reduced the likelihood of a terrorist attack in the UK? I think the answer to that question is pretty clear IMHO.
    I agree, but I think Blair et al would have no qualms about setting up a camp that said attacking Iraq reduced the likelihood of terrorist attack on the UK.

    They're getting into a bit of a pattern with "it's only correct if it doesn't make us look bad" reports...copyright all governments.

    *And* they made magic mushrooms class a again today. Bill Hicks will be turning in his grave.

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    G4Z
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    Byatt you said it, how can you make nature illegal????
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    G4Z
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    Also, can I add...?


    Mr Straw said Saturday's attack at a beach resort in Turkey also showed that terrorists "will seek any excuse" to strike. "They struck this weekend in Turkey, which was not supporting our action in Iraq," Mr Straw said.


    ARGHHHHHHH!!!!! ARGHHHHHHH!!!!!

    you utter twisted bast***

    Several members of a British family are recovering in a Turkish hospital after a bomb blast which killed one of them.


    Floral tributes cover the area in which the bomb exploded

    Helen Bennett, 23, died when an explosion ripped through a minibus in the popular resort of Kusadasi on Saturday.

    Her fiance Stephen Stables, 23, was seriously injured in the attack alongside her brother Adam Megoran, 16, aunt Toni Punshon, cousin Sam Punshon, 14, and Ms Punshon's partner Michael Aspinall.

    The family, all from Co Durham, had been holidaying together at the popular seaside resort when the bomb went off.



    Link



    So, a bomb in Turkey aimed at british tourists (those minibuses mainly ferry tourists around, I have been) wasnt a go at the UK?

    Those bombs in Istanbul that exploded outside our consulate and HSBC bank, they were also directed at Turkey eh?

    Im too angry to say anything else.
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    G4Z
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    Pyle, its worse than that, its the present...

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    G4Z
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    I dont think so mate.
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    Goat Boy
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    Can we keep this On Topic please peeps.
    "All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks

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    Don't think this is as straightforward as you make out.

    So after 9/11 you would have done nothing? No Afganistan no Iraq? Perhaps you are sending the wrong signal to these fanatics? Doing nothing to combat terrorism post 9/11 would not (IMHO) have reduced terrorist activity.

    Also are you saying that if we pull out of Iraq now as a result of these outrages it will reduce our chance of attack? I think not. Dont we become the target of any crackpot minority trying to get their own way or "convert" us to their brand of ideology?

    I'm not saying you dont have some valid points or that there isn't something in what you say, it's just not as easy as some would have you believe. Once again my "beef" is with the armchair primeminister/president. What would you do or what would you have done? Not just Iraq, Afganistan, but Ireland or the Falklands or Hitler or.......
    The Man with the Silver Spot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clingy
    Don't think this is as straightforward as you make out.

    So after 9/11 you would have done nothing? No Afganistan no Iraq? Perhaps you are sending the wrong signal to these fanatics? Doing nothing to combat terrorism post 9/11 would not (IMHO) have reduced terrorist activity.
    The problem is that the US response was exactly what the extremists wanted. Tens of thousands of dead, innocent Muslims.

    Can you explain to me how bombing the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan helps in the "war on terror"? What next? Start bombing all the primary schools in Leeds?
    "All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks

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    fighting fire with fire, or more likely, trying to put a fire out with petrol..

    All it was ever going to do was escalate the situation, driving the fanatics further underground and making recruitment easier - "Look what they've done to your country!"

    Only a couple of ways this can go IMO - 1)The extremists get ostracised from their communities - "not in their name" which causes it to collapse from within, or 2) The extremists are galvanised even further, with the actions of the US/Britain swelling their ranks, and they then get their hands on some serious weaponry (There are numerous articles about cold war 2-40 Kilotonne "suitcase" nukes going "missing" from what was the USSR after it broke apart), and start to take direct action in what they consider a "just" war..
    (\__/)
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    Quote Originally Posted by G4Z
    So, a bomb in Turkey aimed at british tourists (those minibuses mainly ferry tourists around, I have been) wasnt a go at the UK?
    Your link also has this line:

    "Sir Peter Westmacott, the UK ambassador to Turkey said Turkish authorities believe Kurdish PKK separatists planted the bomb."

    Kurdish Separatists is the key here. Whilst nothing has been proven it is likely that that line is true given the political situation in Turkey. Al-Qaeda terrorists tend to go for a big impact. What seems to be happening here is the PKK are trying to deter tourists which provide massive and growing revenue for Turkey.

    On the wider topic, I really don't think that we should let terrorists dictate UK foreign policy. Regardless of views of legality or whatever, Not going into Iraq and Afganistan purely because it might increase the risk is not the way. That would be saying that terrorists can dictate policy to us.

    We've got to have a sense of propotion here - We are not "bombing the hell" out of these countries. Everyone seems to think that were over there killing civillians left right and centre for the fun of it. We are not.

    It's this incorrect portrayal that is driving moderate Muslims to think that we are slaughtering thousands in a millenium crusade that drives them, wrongly, to extremism.

    I wouldn't trust Blair as far as I could spit and I don't seek to defend this governments actions. One thing I do think that should have been done is educating the public about what is going on over there. Truth, unfortunately, is the first casualty of war.
    "Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.

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    Indeed, and in fact Bin Laden couldn't wait for Saddam to be ousted, Iraq was/is also one of the most westernised arab nations for all it's other faults and the more extremist arabic leaders *really* didn't like it..

    But let's face it, this is what happens when you meddle in the affairs of other nations covertely, you eventually get a backlash, Saddam was put in power through American and British support, Iran/Iraq contra, Bin Laden and "Al-Qaeda" were trained and funded by the CIA to fight a guerilla war in afganistan against soviet forces, and before that it was the Palestein/Israeli conflict..

    The west has pretty much been playing one side off the other for the last couple of hundred years for their own ends, usually involving the cheap aquisition of the natural resources in the area - tea, oil, diamonds, uranium, spices etc etc

    Of course, now it's coming full circle, with most of corporate America being funded by the rich saudi families, and the political side being heavily influenced by the deep Isreali connections, and much of the manufacturing and trade sectors being owned by Chinese interests..

    It just gets more and more messy the further down you dig..
    (\__/)
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