Don't you think thats a bad state of affairs then Kilrov?. DaBeeeenster has just give you the facts and proved drugs aren't as bad as alcohol. Surely if alcohol is legal and its worse than cannabis etc then we should legalise cannabis because it won't make any difference and the government can make some cash out of taxing the legal sale of it.
TiG
Or we could criminalise alcohol!Originally posted by TiG
Don't you think thats a bad state of affairs then Kilrov?. DaBeeeenster has just give you the facts and proved drugs aren't as bad as alcohol. Surely if alcohol is legal and its worse than cannabis etc then we should legalise cannabis because it won't make any difference and the government can make some cash out of taxing the legal sale of it.
TiG
Then we could have mob-rule!!!!! Yey!
NOOOOOOOO don't do that, anyway if we crimilise alcohol what would we do with all the bars and clubs?, eek can you imagine no alcohol driven clubs. (HEHE)
omg i can't dance, and i know i can't dance hehe.
And maybe if we crimilise alcohol we should do chocolate as well to really incite mob rule
TiG
I haven't said that alcohol is worse than drugs. I've just said that alcohol is pretty bad whatever. I personally am of the opinion that it is one of the worst drugs (in terms of abuse and the people that abuse it) in our society at present, but I dont know statistics for other drugs would stack up against it.
I think if you were to take the statistis above on a per capita basis and placed them next to, say, crack or heroin then I think crack or heroin would probably rate worse (in terms of per capita abuse effects). I dont think many (or any) other drugs would.
I'm not sure what people think about this? Maybe someone can dig around for some stats on this?
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
I do think it is a bad state of affairs, I dont think alcohol should be criminalised but certainly something needs to be done, maybe heftier punishments for alcohol related crime and more alcohol free zones in urban areas. I also do not think that Cannabis should be legalised but then I dont agree with smoking anything.
What are your reasons against cannabis legalisation?
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
On the most basic level I do not agree with smoking anything due to its negative effects on health. Im specifically against the legalisation of cannabis for a few reasons. Firstly I think it is bad for you despite some people arguing otherwise:
"Wheezing, shortness of breath during exercise, and, most notably and early-morning coughing were up to two and a-half times more frequent in cannabis-dependent subjects compared to non-smokers."
"Mild changes in lung function occurred in 20% of non-smokers due to asthma, whereas the figure for cannabis-dependent subjects was 36%. That outcome was similar to tobacco smokers smoking more than 20 cigarettes a day."
Secondly I think that if it was legalised more people would take up tobacco smoking and that other drug usage would increase because young people would see cannabis as 'cool' just like they do with cigarettes and alcohol. Also, once people start taking cannabis some (NOT all) go onto further, harder drugs which are very dangerous.
Thirdly I think more people would be able to get away with certain crimes by claiming that they are undergoing treatment for addiction.
Finally, cannabis is getting stronger and will continue to do so (i think) so is actually getting more dangerous.
I think the point you are missing here Kilrov is that if it was legalised it would probably take the same route of cannabis cafe's - if this is the case you can ensure that people know the health risks, you can tax cannabis and you would still make it cheaper than it is now. The money you make from it can pay for the treatment of the people in later life when they can't breathe.
I personally hate the one thing will lead to another and everyone will go onto harder drugs and if cannabis was legalised at least you would know who has started smoking and it would be better to monitor those people to monitor who then goes onto use harder drugs.
The only reason i have any acceptance of cannabis is because unlike other drugs is it is at least natural and not chemically created.
Getting away with crimes has got bugger all to do with drugs imo, I wish our criminal system would forget about personal stuff - i believe that if someone breaks a law that there should be a sentence for it. (tho this should probably be another thread)
TiG
Two arguments to this.Originally posted by Kilrov
On the most basic level I do not agree with smoking anything due to its negative effects on health. Im specifically against the legalisation of cannabis for a few reasons. Firstly I think it is bad for you despite some people arguing otherwise:
"Wheezing, shortness of breath during exercise, and, most notably and early-morning coughing were up to two and a-half times more frequent in cannabis-dependent subjects compared to non-smokers."
"Mild changes in lung function occurred in 20% of non-smokers due to asthma, whereas the figure for cannabis-dependent subjects was 36%. That outcome was similar to tobacco smokers smoking more than 20 cigarettes a day."
1. Cannabis does not need to be smoked.
2. Do you think the government should ban things based purely on their effects on health? Heart disease is the biggest killer in this country (49% of ALL europeans die of cardiovascular disease), but you dont see the government banning deep fried mars bars. And rightly so. Surely it's a personal choice for those above a certain age?
(link: http://www.annecollins.com/nutrition...sease%20Europe
Well, as I mentioned cannabis does not need to be smoked.Originally posted by Kilrov
Secondly I think that if it was legalised more people would take up tobacco smoking and that other drug usage would increase because young people would see cannabis as 'cool' just like they do with cigarettes and alcohol. Also, once people start taking cannabis some (NOT all) go onto further, harder drugs which are very dangerous.
A couple of things about the "stepping stone" argument. (I hate this argument because it is hard to counter, but I do think it is wrong). Firstly, cannabis is not the gateway drug for young people, alcohol is. No question about that - more people start off their "drug" experiences with alcohol. The fact that it is legal is irrelevant. Secondly, cannabis is (generally) quite readily available throughout the UK. I agree that if it was legalised there would be a _slight_ increase in the amount of usage, but that would not go on for ever, and I think the pros definitely outway the cons here. Take a look at Holland. Dutch people are not constantly whacked out on crack or heroin are they? Yet they can legally purchase cannabis. Most dutch people I know hate cannabis in actual fact.
Well, this is a non-argument. There should be no excuses for commiting a crime under the influence of any drug. Driving or operating machinery whilst under the effects of drugs should always be illegal.Originally posted by Kilrov
Thirdly I think more people would be able to get away with certain crimes by claiming that they are undergoing treatment for addiction.
How do you define dangerous? It is physically impossible to overdose on cannabis. "The easiest way to kill yourself with cannabis is to throw a brick of hash into the air and hope it lands on your head hard enough" - that's a quote from my friend who is a qualified doctor and surgeon.Originally posted by Kilrov
Finally, cannabis is getting stronger and will continue to do so (i think) so is actually getting more dangerous.
Surely, if it was legalised, the strength and quality of it could be controlled by the government. If it was priced in such a way that it undercut dealers, the quality and strength would be immediately controllable. Dont forget that cannabis resin is often mixed with anything from dirt to plastic (that's right, plastic) to increase its weight.
These are mainly arguments in the defence of the negatives of cannabis. Maybe we can talk about some of the positives of legalisation?
What are people's thoughts on this?
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
Yes it does. But i dont feel that the two can be compared tho. Drinking is soically acceptable wheras using class a drugs is definately not.Originally posted by Agent
Indeed.
36 deaths in 2000 from Ecstasy while there were 1,595 alcohol-related deaths in Scotland alone in 1999.
Makes you think doesnt it ?
Legalise cannabis in the way the Dutch have and tax it, that's my view. It would save a lot on policing if young men were stoned and chilled out on Friday/Saturday night rather than drunk and aggressive. I don't buy the "but alcohol's legal" argument for legalisation though - two wrongs etc.
And that depends on who you socialise with.Originally posted by steve threlfall
Yes it does. But i dont feel that the two can be compared tho. Drinking is soically acceptable wheras using class a drugs is definately not.
true ,but the majority tend to side against drugs as they weren't shall i say "bought up with them" and of course, the horror stories in the sun are always right...............
What does the social status of a drug have to do with it's health danger?Originally posted by steve threlfall
Yes it does. But i dont feel that the two can be compared tho. Drinking is soically acceptable wheras using class a drugs is definately not.
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
I think (correct me if i'm wrong in the morning steve) he means that its difficult for the general tabloid reading paper to compare the drug the drink while reading said paper. and the drug thats a "plague on our children" or whatever drivel the print about it now.
That's fair enough, but that's part of my point; the law should be based on objectivity, not tabloid trash.
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
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