Scan & Intel CPU Warranty Issues

[Reinforcer]

And you all think you have problems I got 1 of these E8400's when SCAN got the 1st shipment in my batch according to the box is Q745A553 which apparantly is 1 of the better ones.cores differ 3-5c max in any test idle load i'm fine with that even though my trusty old E6400 was never more than 2c difference between cores.What i'm not happy about is this cpu is currently idle at 47c gaming at 60-65c under orthos it's reaching 72c MAX! and this is on a Zalman 9500 with AS5 i've reseated twice just to confirm it,I am on an Asus P5B which i've heard Asus boards generally report higher temps anyway,What amazes me is the over 20c difference between idle and load, My suspicion is dodgy thermal diodes and the cpu is'nt running at that temps because i did another test burned it under orthos for over 1/2 an hour before the computer got the chance to shut down i unscrewed the 9500 and quickly touched the cpu and it's not even warm! Now i read some people are running these things at 80 and even 90c with no throttling or shuting down so my hunch is yes i'm very annoyed at Intel if it's the dodgy thermal diodes i mean why didn't they just use what worked in the 1st dual cores is beyond me but it seems to be running ok without crashes so i'll run it to it's knees it has 3yr warranty so....

[nickp8]

http://forums.hexus.net/1328260-post6.html

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by Nickg

yes but the customer contract is with SCAN not intel. SCANs contract is with Intel .....

Actually, the customer has a contract with both Scan and Intel. It didn't used to be the case, but the law changed a few years ago and where a manufacturer offers a warranty, they can be held to it contractually.

Originally Posted by Nickg

.... how can you return under the DSR after opening and using the CPU thats not how it works.

Well, yes, more or less. That's what I said. Though it's actually not quite that clear-cut.

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by Supershanks

....

Thanks's for that Saracen , of course I appreciate that, but at the moment i feel more like a victim in a traffic accident.

I don't blame you. But nonetheless, at the moment, there is confusion as to what's going on, and as to whether the temp behaviour in question is actually "faulty" processors, or just some operating towards the upper end of their spec.

Originally Posted by JPreston

Indeed, the difference between scan and the end consumer is that scan are in the business of marking up items for retail sale and making a profit thereon - they therefore bear the risk of returns and TBH I would not have contacted intel at all.

And if they're faulty, Scan will no doubt take them back from the consumer and Intel will no doubt take them back from Scan.

But if they're not faulty, you can hardly be surprised that Scan won't take them back (except under the DSR) if they're going to get stuck with them, and if they're not faulty, then (except for the DSR) they have no obligation to take them back.

Presumably, the situation will become much clearer when it is clarified as to exactly what's going on, and whether they are "faulty" or not.

[stroberaver]

Originally Posted by Saracen

Scan are caught rather in the middle on this, though. After all, they get what they're sent, just like we do.

I agree - it's an unfortunate and difficult situation for them. If they openly state that they acknowledge the alleged heat issues and will exchange them, then they'll probably get taken advantage of by people complaining that it idles 2°C too hot (and indeed, where do you draw the line as to what's too hot and what isn't?). Then again, if they don't acknowledge the issue or just defer it to Intel, it risks upsetting a lot of enthusiasts and early adopters, many of them Hexus members from whom Scan enjoys a lot of repeat custom.

Of course, we've all read the reviews (presumably these are based on engineering samples since they sometimes appear before or at the same time the chip hits the market?) and know what kind of temperatures to expect. The reviews have raved more about how cool it runs rather than any stellar performance increase over the Conroe - indeed, it was for this very reason I chose the E8400. At stock speeds it has plenty power for me. It's how cool it runs that I wanted. Given that the CPU is marketed on the grounds of it being cool-running, if I buy it (in this case from Scan), then I expect Scan to supply me with a CPU that runs nice and cool. If this means that Scan have to return CPUs to Intel, then I guess they need to join the queue behind Lenovo.

It's a bit of a coincidence that Lenovo says "no thanks, try again" to a whole batch of 45nm CPUs due to heat sensor issues, just as complaints spring up about the 45nm desktop Wolfdales.

But as JPreston says, maybe there's every chance that the next batch of chips is fine (I just got a text to say mine is on it's way). We don't know how many faulty chips are out there - whether it was just a tiny proportion, or whether it was a whole batch or even batches. It's always the case that those unhappy and affected by an issue become the vocal minority, whilst those happy and satisfied with their product are less likely to make themselves heard.

Fingers crossed. Things aren't made any easier for me personally, because I'm getting an IP35 Pro along with the E8400. Either Abit have screwed up the BIOS, or Intel shifted the goalposts because the temperature reporting problems on the IP35Pro are well documented, which means I'll be relying on CoreTemp to judge my CPU temperature until the BIOS is fixed. And CoreTemp is what's giving the high and unequal (between cores) readings. I'm not sure where I stand under the right to return anything if it takes Abit a long time to get the BIOS sorted, and then I find the cpu temp as reported by the mobo is too high, as well as CoreTemp's readings.

[JPreston]

Originally Posted by stroberaver

I just got a text to say mine is on it's way.

Mine isn't .... although maybe given the situation...

Yep I'm with you, I imagine 1000's of these must have been sold to enthusiasts in the past couple of weeks and I'm only reading about a few problems so I wonder how widespread the problem really is....surely, it's got to be a batch problem at the end of the day.

I've got an IP35 (Dark Raider ) to go with my E8400 so going by your post I can probably expect some BIOS problems too...oh well I'll worry about that when I get it

[Blitzen]

Originally Posted by Hicks12

Well mine runs hot too, anywhere from 40-50 idle now, upto about 60 or just over when gaming, degree C that is. It also is effecting my asus p5n-d as its making that run hotter as a result(im thinking it would). But i have managed to cool that down to 40 idle instead of 56. My board is brand new(released on like the 30th) and that would mean the bios shouldnt be the problem for supporting 45nm atleast, working in america as far as i can see.
This is using stock cooling and about 5 case fans.

Second cpu tends to stay around 40-50.

I will be watching this as i indeed think i have a faulty one and tbh i bought this as it runs cooler,ment to. So in theory it should last longer. Great work intel, no probs in america but in europe it =fail so far xD

edit: ok looking at the file of coretemp i can see my cpu hit 62C and the second core hit 56C, not good at all
edit2: wow compareing these results to the guy(sorry didnt look at name ) who tested his q6600 against his e8400 it shows my cpu is running hotter then the quad core, fail. This must be a problem as my heatsink/fan are properly seated and working.

40-50 Degrees IDLE!!
If these new cores are that poor then we may as well just all go back to using Pentium D's.

I am SO SO glad that these were out of stock when i went to order.

Originally Posted by JPreston

Mine isn't .... although maybe given the situation...

Yep I'm with you, I imagine 1000's of these must have been sold to enthusiasts in the past couple of weeks and I'm only reading about a few problems so I wonder how widespread the problem really is....surely, it's got to be a batch problem at the end of the day.

I've got an IP35 (Dark Raider ) to go with my E8400 so going by your post I can probably expect some BIOS problems too...oh well I'll worry about that when I get it

You have only seen a few problems on this forum. Google whats going on and see how widespread it really is. This is a BIG problem, no doubt about it.

[stroberaver]

Originally Posted by Blitzen

Google whats going on and see how widespread it really is. This is a BIG problem, no doubt about it.

I have - I've exhausted every link Google returns that is relevant to this problem. All the news stories are based upon the same handful of forum topics. Of course there's a variety of people posting in these topics but that is by no means a huge number in relation to the (unknown, but presumably huge) number of chips that have been shipped. We don't know how many enthusiasts with an E8400 there are that are quite happy and meeting expectations with their chip temperatures, who don't go looking for these topics. It may be a tiny issue in the grand scheme of fabbing and shipping E8400s, or it may be that pretty much every chip to date has borked sensors. We just don't know.

All I'm saying is that it's very, very easy for things to look far worse than they are on the internet, especially without any comment from Intel. I'm in the same boat as others here, and I suspect I'll be spitting feathers if I build my rig and find the cpu to be idling at 40°C.

[Supershanks]

All I'm saying is that it's very, very easy for things to look far worse than they are on the internet, especially without any comment from Intel.

Believe it or not they don't l;ook that great from here

[Hicks12]

Well while playing crysis i managed to get it to 62C core1 and core 2 was at 58C. I believe that is higher then intels own temperature limit, 61.5 or 62.5 C i think. Although asus told me <65C is within normal limit.
I want intel to get off their asses, its not my problem its theirs. My case is fine, fans are fine, everything seated and my gfx card only hits 71C load and mobo hitting 46 load. This is annoying.
On another note my system is starting to hang etc when doing things normally after a game, everything laoded fine and then i would clcik on firefox, nothing. 2mins later it pops up, no sound is lost though(my music plays without crashign in background) so i have no idea of this problem xD. Also anyone have there system not load anything on start up? ull log in and youll see like 1% loaded and then 3mins later everything loads at once, is this just the general thing with dual cores? as its annoying and this cpu is slower then my amd 3000.....

[wesleyaldred]

Ok this thread is going to be locked, we are now well aware of the reports you have all made and we are just going round in circles.

We are contacting our channel support at Intel and will post on here once we have some official news.

[wesleyaldred]

OK we have spoken to our Intel channel support and the official answer is that all the temperatures you are reporting are within Intel's data sheet's specification, these CPU's will thermal throttle at 72.4c, anything under this temperature is acceptable, within tolerance and NOT FAULTY.

[Hicks12]

Thanks for the update but iam still annoyed by the fact intel claimed these ran, more efficient and "cooler", im not seeing this one bit its infact running hotter then the older cores. I believe this is false advertising(not by your part but intel) and thus intel have broke there contract and i think iam entitled to a refund, am i right?

[wesleyaldred]

No, because Intel's datasheets (you can view them freely via the web) state 72.4c as the thermal throttle, as such any temperature under this is within specification and therefore NOT FAULTY.

[Oldjim]

At risk of labouring the point these processors are advertised as meeting this spec intel document and part of that states

Digital Thermal Sensor (DTS)
Provides for more efficient processor and platform thermal control improving system acoustics. The DTS continuously measures the temperature at each processing core. The ability to continuously measure and detect variations in processor temperature enables system fans to spin only as fast as needed to cool the system. The combination of these technologies can result in significantly lower noise emissions from the PC.
Intel Designed Thermal Solution for Boxed Processors
Includes a 4-pin connector for fan speed control to help minimize the acoustic noise levels generated from running the fan at higher speeds for thermal performance. Fan speed control technology is based on actual CPU temperature and power usage.

If the sensor is giving serious errors then this part of the specification has not been met

[Blitzen]

Will you carry on selling these cores although they are right at the top end of their tolerance and not performing as advertised then?

Its obviously not Scans fault but it has taken alot of nudging to get to this point.