News - BFG starts denying RMA support

[HEXUS]

Lifetime warranties being denied after three months?

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[pardal51]

Read more.

Which makes me think that you can setup a business, "sell" lifetime/10-y warranty get the customers and then say: "well, this isn't profitable, let me do something else and sod the customers". If they continue trading PSU/Computers they should be liable to refund the money we spent on the cards if they can't repair/replace it.

Nowadays it is too easy to get away without being punished. Do whatever you like.

[oolon]

Don't forget your contract is with the company who supplied the card and not BFG, so if you did buy a card in the last days of BFG and it fails (in less than a year after that date), you may still be able to get some regress from your supplier as you could claim it was not fit for purpose. However I expect they will fight that hard.

[OilSheikh]

Use it while you can I guess. New graphics cards usually last 2 years anyway before showing any symptoms.

[tickedon]

Not worth it.

[Agent]

A friend just went through this and it took him months to get his card back. He got it back a few days ago - looks like he just made it in!

Keep in mind that BFG are no longer in the graphics card market, which is why they are probably stopping this service.

[GoNz0]

glad i sold mine when i did

now to hope inno3d dont go down the pan

[BobF64]

The legal position is always that your contract is with the retailer, and the Sale of Goods Act provides not-insignificant protection for consumers (along with some nice EU legislation). For the first year, the retailer are 100% liable for any repairs, replacement or refund if they can't do the former. The sale of goods act would also allow you to make a claim after one year, as it would be expected that something like a graphics card would have a longer life - at which point, they could offer a repair, replacement or some sort of partial refund (to make up for the "lost time" you're missing out on, but, accounting for the time you've currently benefitted - e.g. 18 months in, you might expect a GPU to last 3 years - so you could argue for a 50% refund etc...).

Indeed, these are the sort of things buyers arent aware of, and retailers hope you arent.

But, as with so many things, you often have to fight for it.

[BullDogg]

The legal position is always that your contract is with the retailer, and the Sale of Goods Act provides not-insignificant protection for consumers (along with some nice EU legislation). For the first year, the retailer are 100% liable for any repairs, replacement or refund if they can't do the former. The sale of goods act would also allow you to make a claim after one year, as it would be expected that something like a graphics card would have a longer life - at which point, they could offer a repair, replacement or some sort of partial refund (to make up for the "lost time" you're missing out on, but, accounting for the time you've currently benefitted - e.g. 18 months in, you might expect a GPU to last 3 years - so you could argue for a 50% refund etc...).

I'll be honest, my memory of the SGA (and more appropriately, the Consumer Protection Act) is a little rusty at this point, but if memory serves, getting anything from a retailer is extremely difficult. Legally it is possible, but it isn't as easy as sending them a nice letter and complaining.

Again, if my memory is correct, this is especially true when a product a) worked when you go it but just broke after a few months and b) it didn't actually cause you any damage (monetary loss, damage to possessions etc). If your BFG card exploded taking down your computer with it, you'd be able to claim from them without any issue. But that's quite a high threshold.

Again, its been a few years since I did all this at Uni, so I could well be wrong. Would be interesting to crack open the textbooks and figure it out.

[jim]

The legal position is always that your contract is with the retailer, and the Sale of Goods Act provides not-insignificant protection for consumers (along with some nice EU legislation). For the first year, the retailer are 100% liable for any repairs, replacement or refund if they can't do the former. The sale of goods act would also allow you to make a claim after one year, as it would be expected that something like a graphics card would have a longer life - at which point, they could offer a repair, replacement or some sort of partial refund (to make up for the "lost time" you're missing out on, but, accounting for the time you've currently benefitted - e.g. 18 months in, you might expect a GPU to last 3 years - so you could argue for a 50% refund etc...).

I've never heard of this "first year" business. First 6 months, yes, not sure what's special about the first 12.

Up to 6 months after purchase, it's assumed that the product was faulty to start with so you should be entitled to refund/replacement/repair - you would hope that any half-reputable firm would comply with those regulations, but it's not guaranteed. After 6 months have elapsed, it's up to you to prove that it's faulty, which would probably involve paying an engineer and taking the case to small claims court.

In some instances you can convince the firm to pay out without taking them to court and without paying an engineer, just because they can't be bothered any more / want to do it for PR's sake. But in this case, I think that will be virtually impossible. They, more than likely, won't get a penny from BFG in compensation, if BFG is being liquidated, so they'll be extremely reluctant to start handing out refunds like confetti.

I doubt it would be as easy as you're implying.

[oolon]

I've never heard of this "first year" business. First 6 months, yes, not sure what's special about the first 12.

The item needs to be fit for purpose, there is no set time, the argument would be what would be considered a minimum acceptable life time for the item. Most consumer electronics items have a one year warranty, so it is relatively easy to argue that this period should be at least a year. However arguing it is 3 years of 5 years might be possible. Also remember that you have had use of the time for a period of time, so you are not entitled to your full money back, just to be put in the position you would have been if the item had not failed.

[superscaper]

The legal position is always that your contract is with the retailer

Just for clarification, yes you have a contract with the retailer covered by the SOGA. But any offered warranty by the manufacturer is also a contract in addition to your consumer rights. And the manufacturer can be pursued for redress under the terms of their warranty contract as long as the manufacturer is in business. Unlike the SOGA which is a catch all, the warranty contract is completely dependent on the specifics of the manufacturer's terms. This is particularly of relevance if the offered warranty exceeds that of the Sale of Goods Act. I'd suggest that BFG customers check the precise terms of the lifetime warranty and they may actually still be able to pursue BFG for repair/replacement costs if it's technically the same company in operation.

[ca197]

Well they have been refusing to reply to my RMA requests for a few months now so I am not surprised that this happened. Oh well guess I can stop even trying now :-(

[superscaper]

there is no set time

snootyjim is right, within the first six months the burden of proof is on the retailer to prove there wasn't an inherent fault. After six months it's the customer's burden of proof to show that it is an "inherent fault". Also you can only claim for a "reasonable time" up to a maximum of 6 years from date of purchase no matter what it is (in England and Wales and NI, 5 years for Scotland, 10 years for Jersey).

[jim]

The item needs to be fit for purpose, there is no set time, the argument would be what would be considered a minimum acceptable life time for the item. Most consumer electronics items have a one year warranty, so it is relatively easy to argue that this period should be at least a year. However arguing it is 3 years of 5 years might be possible. Also remember that you have had use of the time for a period of time, so you are not entitled to your full money back, just to be put in the position you would have been if the item had not failed.

I appreciate that there's no set time (well technically I think the max is 6 years, but that's not particularly important in this instance), but it's not that simple.

You can't just ring up a firm and say "I think it should last 2 years, so give me a refund."

Beyond the first 6 months, there's no special treatment.

[Saracen]

The legal position is always that your contract is with the retailer, and the Sale of Goods Act provides not-insignificant protection for consumers (along with some nice EU legislation). For the first year, the retailer are 100% liable for any repairs, replacement or refund if they can't do the former. The sale of goods act would also allow you to make a claim after one year, as it would be expected that something like a graphics card would have a longer life - at which point, they could offer a repair, replacement or some sort of partial refund (to make up for the "lost time" you're missing out on, but, accounting for the time you've currently benefitted - e.g. 18 months in, you might expect a GPU to last 3 years - so you could argue for a 50% refund etc...).

Erm, nope.

There is no one-year cut-off in the SoGA. Your cover goes in three stages :-

- until "acceptance" ... which might mean only few days or less, and does not refer to delivery, and
- after that, for the first six months, and
- after that, for up to six years (England and Wales, a bit different in Scotland).

And, you have a contract with both seller and any manufacturer offering a warranty. The seller is responsible for your SoGA rights, and whoever offered the warranty (seller or manufacturer) for the warranty/guarantee they offered.

Yes, the main contract is with the seller and that's what the SoGA applies to. But, for the last few years and subject to a few conditions, if the manufacturer offers a warranty, it is legally binding on them. Of course, where a manufacturer is based overseas, it's going to be a bit tricky enforcing it.

as for the seller, until you "accept" the goods, you can reject them if they fail to conform to contract, and get all your money back. After acceptance, you'll be relying on basic SoGA protections, mainly for "satisfactory quality", fitness for purpose and being as described. And that usually implies repair or replacement, and possibly are funds which might indeed, as you say, involve a deduction for benefit received.

But it's not about the one-year cut-off.

Up to 6 months, the seller has a SoGA liablity for any goods that don't live up to the contract in respect of any faults inherent at the time of sale, and the seller has to prove that they do not, or they are liable. After 6 months, that reverses and the seller isn't liable unless the buyer can prove the fault was inherent.

as for the one year thing, it;s merely a tracition that most durable goods have a one-year guarantee, and indeed, some shops and manufacturers offer one the terms of which go beyond the cover offered by the SoGA. But there's nothing in the SoGA or any other UK consumer legislation that stipulates a one year minimum cover. And even where there is cover, it's certainly not for all faults. Anything not inherent at time of sale is not covered by the SoGA (such as accidental damage, the resulting or abuse or misuse, etc) and most guarantees/warranties etc also exclude such events. And indeed, some guarantees/warranties offer cover for a lot longer than one year.

As an example, the shirts I buy are covered by a 3 month unconditional guarantee, and of course, by the SOGA. After 3 months, all I get is the SoGA rights, but within three months, I could (though never have) sent one back worn or not, washed or not, ripped by accident, covered in cigarette burns or chewed by the dog and it explicitly is covered, for replacement or refund.

Effectively we have two distinct lots of cover ....

1) Whatever guarantee, subject to it's terms and limitations, we are offered by manufacturer or retailer

2) SoGA rights, for up to 6 years, subject to burden of proof after 6 months, for inherent faults