Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 36

Thread: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

  1. #1
    HEXUS.admin
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    31,709
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    2,073 times in 719 posts

    id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    Upcoming id tech will make the most of Ryzen CPU cores/threads and the Vega GPU.
    Read more.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    344
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked
    22 times in 19 posts

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    That's good news. I love to see leaps forward like this, although unfortunately I won't benefit from it directly given that I didn't buy AMD (and we'll all still be playing near enough the same game aside from the rendering). If it helps AMD increase its market share, that's good for everyone too.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Helion Prime
    Posts
    152
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked
    6 times in 6 posts
    • fend_oblivion's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS M5A78L-M/USB3
      • CPU:
      • AMD FX 4100 3.6 GHz Black Edition
      • Memory:
      • G.Skill RipJawsX 8 GB DDR3 @ 1600 MHz
      • Storage:
      • Western Digital Blue 1 TB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic S1211 520 W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master K380
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64-bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Acer P166HQL

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    This is great news indeed. Better competition means better prices and deals for customers.

  4. Received thanks from:

    Bluecube (26-04-2017)

  5. #4
    Anthropomorphic Personification shaithis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    The Last Aerie
    Posts
    10,857
    Thanks
    645
    Thanked
    872 times in 736 posts
    • shaithis's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z77 WS
      • CPU:
      • i7 3770k @ 4.5GHz
      • Memory:
      • 32GB HyperX 1866
      • Storage:
      • Lots!
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire Fury X
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX850
      • Case:
      • Corsair 600T (White)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2 x Dell 3007
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb Fibre

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    The problem is, you need every developer to do this.....I'm still at the point where I'd prefer to buy something that everything is optimised for out-of-the-box......surely AMD could have kept certain architectural features in-line with Intel so that every engine and piece of code didn't need specific Ryzen optimisations?
    Main PC: Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 3960X@4.5GHz / Antec H1200 Pro / 32GB DDR3-1866 Quad Channel / Sapphire Fury X / Areca 1680 / 850W EVGA SuperNOVA Gold 2 / Corsair 600T / 2x Dell 3007 / 4 x 250GB SSD + 2 x 80GB SSD / 4 x 1TB HDD (RAID 10) / Windows 10 Pro, Yosemite & Ubuntu
    HTPC: AsRock Z77 Pro 4 / 3770K@4.2GHz / 24GB / GTX 1080 / SST-LC20 / Antec TP-550 / Hisense 65k5510 4K TV / HTC Vive / 2 x 240GB SSD + 12TB HDD Space / Race Seat / Logitech G29 / Win 10 Pro
    HTPC2: Asus AM1I-A / 5150 / 4GB / Corsair Force 3 240GB / Silverstone SST-ML05B + ST30SF / Samsung UE60H6200 TV / Windows 10 Pro
    Spare/Loaner: Gigabyte EX58-UD5 / i950 / 12GB / HD7870 / Corsair 300R / Silverpower 700W modular
    NAS 1: HP N40L / 12GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Arrays || NAS 2: Dell PowerEdge T110 II / 24GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Hybrid arrays || Network:Buffalo WZR-1166DHP w/DD-WRT + HP ProCurve 1800-24G
    Laptop: Dell Precision 5510 Printer: HP CP1515n || Phone: Huawei P30 || Other: Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 Pro 10.1 CM14 / Playstation 4 + G29 + 2TB Hybrid drive

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    133
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked
    5 times in 5 posts
    • Primey0's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X570 GAMING X
      • CPU:
      • AMD Ryzen 5 5600X
      • Memory:
      • Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32GB
      • Storage:
      • Corsair MP400 2TB NVME
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Palit GeForce RTX 3070 8 GB
      • PSU:
      • EVGA 850W GQ, 80+ GOLD
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-O11 Air
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    Sorry but I'm not going to invest in a CPU that promises future support from developers. Publishers/developers can be extremely lazy when it comes to pc games, you really think they all are going to go out of their way to specifically optimise for Ryzen? Ryzen might be best for id software games but I want a CPU that is good on all games not certain games. That's why Intel will be my future CPU.

  7. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,526
    Thanks
    504
    Thanked
    468 times in 326 posts

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    The way some people are talking it's almost like playing games on Ryzen should be compared with a flicker book.

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    189
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    11 times in 10 posts

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Primey0 View Post
    Sorry but I'm not going to invest in a CPU that promises future support from developers. Publishers/developers can be extremely lazy when it comes to pc games, you really think they all are going to go out of their way to specifically optimise for Ryzen? Ryzen might be best for id software games but I want a CPU that is good on all games not certain games. That's why Intel will be my future CPU.
    The future (and present) is more than 4 cores 8 threads and Intel charge absurd artificial premiums for that right now. There's no game than Ryzen is "not good" at.

  9. #8
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    12,975
    Thanks
    778
    Thanked
    1,584 times in 1,339 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    The problem is, you need every developer to do this.....I'm still at the point where I'd prefer to buy something that everything is optimised for out-of-the-box......surely AMD could have kept certain architectural features in-line with Intel so that every engine and piece of code didn't need specific Ryzen optimisations?
    Meanwhile, it is Intel's job to introduce new instructions and get software tuned to work best on their CPU.

    These are companies trying to make money, not trying to be nice to consumers.

  10. #9
    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Gateshead
    Posts
    15,196
    Thanks
    1,231
    Thanked
    2,291 times in 1,874 posts
    • scaryjim's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Dell Inspiron
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 8250U
      • Memory:
      • 2x 4GB DDR4 2666
      • Storage:
      • 128GB M.2 SSD + 1TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon R5 230
      • PSU:
      • Battery/Dell brick
      • Case:
      • Dell Inspiron 5570
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • 15" 1080p laptop panel

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    T....surely AMD could have kept certain architectural features in-line with Intel so that every engine and piece of code didn't need specific Ryzen optimisations? ...
    It's not really a case of making Ryzen specific optimisations; the article doesn't even mention a single Ryzen-sepcific optimisation. It just says the next engine will be more parallel, and Ryzen's higher thread count will get the best out of it.

    The ideal situation is for developers to make no vendor-specific optimisations. The issue for AMD for the last decade or more is that most developers will have been working on Intel systems, so they're going to have automatically optimised for Intel (even if they didn't do it consciously) just to get the game running as fast as possible on their dev systems; and AMD processors were so far behind they probably didn't care whether they were getting every last drop of performance.

    Ryzen does share a lot more architectural features with Intel than the construction and cat cores did. I wouldn't be surprised if some of its performance jump over FX is because it's actually being used more efficiently by the code.

  11. #10
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    31,023
    Thanks
    1,870
    Thanked
    3,381 times in 2,718 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
      • CPU:
      • Intel i9 9900k
      • Memory:
      • 32GB DDR4 3200 CL16
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 970Evo+ NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2721DGF
      • Internet:
      • rubbish

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    Absolutely - the article specifies the benefit is the number of cores for the money.

  12. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Where you are not
    Posts
    1,330
    Thanks
    606
    Thanked
    103 times in 90 posts
    • Iota's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Maximus Hero XI
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core i9 9900KF
      • Memory:
      • CMD32GX4M2C3200C16
      • Storage:
      • 1 x 1TB / 3 x 2TB Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia RTX 3090 Founders Edition
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX1200i
      • Case:
      • Corsair Obsidian 500D
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung Odyssey G9
      • Internet:
      • 500Mbps BT FTTH

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    The way some people are talking it's almost like playing games on Ryzen should be compared with a flicker book.
    Honestly, I don't need to play games at 200fps. As long as I can get somewhere close to 60fps and more if possible, that'll do me fine. Considering the price difference, I'm more inclined to go with an AMD build a bit later this year.

  13. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    359
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    7 times in 7 posts

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    "Duffy says that while AMD Ryzen gives good performance 'out of the box' at 1080p and 1440p the id developers are tuning software for great performance in 4K and even 8K resolutions."

    So basically admitting what we already know. Gaming where we all play (>95% of us anyway) is not going to do you any favors vs intel, but there's hope for the future at a point in time where you'll likely be on a whole other technology anyway. 4K is not even on my radar for my next monitor (coming soon, likely within the year) and 8K? ROFL. Please, give me a break.

    This was NOT the case the last time AMD took the lead for 3yrs where they won almost EVERYTHING out of the box, and gaming across the board for years. I hope ryzen rev2.0 (supposedly starting with the 16 core desktop chip coming soon with 399 chipset or whatever) fixes gaming for ALL games not just the ones a dev decides to optimize for specifically if AMD pays them to, because AMD doesn't have much money to get this "paying" crap done. Hopefully they sell to a large portion of the HOME desktop market (meaning a lot of gamers, they reached 50% before of home users, and about zero enterprise), which would force people to code without PAYMENT, but that remains to be seen and could take a few years.

    The biggest issues for AMD before was Intel and a hard limit of 20% share they could achieve due to fab limits. I think it's a lot tougher for Intel to push around people today (to the extent they did before anyway), and the best part is AMD has no fab limits so can QUICKLY capture market in a year if they're selling something people really want. They MUST fix games on rev2.0 coming THIS YEAR or they will be slowed down a lot. Users like me want what they are promising with 2.0 (fixed games). They already have me hands down on handbrake use, but I need more than one app I use a lot.

    It seems AMD clearly knows the weakness of their chips (currently anyway) and is telling devs to sound off on 4k/8k that most of us won't use or in 95% of the cases will be shown to be gpu bound anyway thus hiding their weaknesses. I don't buy future proof tech, I buy what WINS TODAY TECH with a very small hope for the future to be ok...LOL. If you buy the other way around you can easily get the shiv in the back. The message seems to be buy the loser today and at some point it will come into power (how did that workout with FX 8 core chips? yeah, still waiting), WE PROMISE. Umm, no thanks.

    Don't get me wrong I hope they succeed (own stock...ROFL), just think I'll wait as long as possible for gen2 and hope they get it right. I want to buy AMD, but currently I'm thinking I'm really just hoping AMD gets me an Intel discount on an 8-12 core by xmas. Sad, but seems to be the case currently. That said, I think AMD will sell to a lot of workstation users and hopefully that paves the way for a greater GEN2 gamer chip. It sounds like they were already working on it knowing they had a problem across the board for gamers (as reviews have shown). That's encouraging for me Great cpu for workstations already in many cases.

  14. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    My happy place
    Posts
    230
    Thanks
    75
    Thanked
    16 times in 14 posts
    • afiretruck's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X399 Designare Ex
      • CPU:
      • AMD Threadripper 1900X
      • Memory:
      • Corsair 32GB 3200MHz
      • Storage:
      • 2x 250GB NVMe + 2x 1TB SATA
      • Graphics card(s):
      • RX Vega 64 + GTX 970
      • PSU:
      • Corsair RMi 850
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define R6
      • Operating System:
      • Linux Mint 19
      • Monitor(s):
      • Screeny

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    Quote Originally Posted by nobodyspecial View Post
    ... It seems AMD clearly knows the weakness of their chips (currently anyway) and is telling devs to sound off on 4k/8k...
    This. AMD know their Ryzen CPUs aren't yet quite as good as Intel's for gaming (either due to lack of software optimisation [single-threaded or multithreaded] , or Intel just has slightly better hardware) so they're trying to mask the issue by showing that it can at least saturate the GPU with ultra-high resolution gaming, thus making the GPU bottle-neck the CPU.

    Now, with regards to software optimisations, there are 2 issues at play here:
    1) Ryzen is a brand new uArchitecture, with a subtly different behaviour compared to Intel's hardware per-core.
    2) Developers suddenly have up to twice as many cores & threads to play with on mainstream hardware.

    Point 1 is a difficult one to deal with as, as other people have said before me, most devs won't have touched AMD hardware for years, let alone be even aware of how Ryzen works under the hood. So they need *some* time to play around with it and tweak their games/game engines to behave properly on it.

    Point 2 really shows just how much both Intel and software/video games developers both have been holding us back the last half-decade. Multi-threading is the future of high-performance software, but it's usually *very* difficult to transition a single-threaded (or fixed dual/quad threaded) game engine to a scalable multi-threaded one without having to completely redesign the engine's architecture.

    Graphics APIs like OpenGL (don't know about DX11, never programmed with it) being only really operable from a single thread does make this harder. Sure, you can do some clever tricks to offload work to other threads, but that doesn't really solve the problem.

    Vulkan and DX12 are supposed to be very multi-threading friendly, so that'll help developers want to think in a multi-threading way, at least, but the technology is still very new, so it'll be a while before people default to using them.

    Add to the above the fact that proper multi-threading programming is significantly harder than single-threaded programming and you have a situation where of course it's going to take a damn while before we see our 8C/16T being properly utilised by most games.

    Most developers aren't going to waste precious time rearchitecting already-released games to use 4 - 32 threads. It's not lazy, it's sensible. This is one of the big reasons why AMD Ryzen still lags behind Intel for gaming. I bet you, if Intel keeps up it's stupidity on low core/thread counts and AMD pushes ahead with it's 8+ cores in the mainstream sector, we'll see AMD Zen-based CPUs pulling ahead of Intel in the games performance charts within the next year, or so.

    Final point: We're comparing first-generation Zen to 7th generation I-series. We will very likely see a big leap in single-thread performance going from Ryzen to Zen-2, much like the leap from 1st gen I-series to 2nd gen.

  15. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    359
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    7 times in 7 posts

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    Praying you're right afiretruck. Really want to see gen2 fix the gaming and get glowing reviews. Other than that they are seemingly sitting on a winner (for workstation use at least for now which should sell enough for more R&D), or will at some point soon. It seems Zen2 is coming first with 16 core then hopefully across the board (and in APU, don't even bother with ZEN1 apus AMD!). Just make sure you have zen2 be compatible with at least some of the first buyers boards so they have somewhere to run for a fix in a year or two etc.

    I think we'll see Vulkan take off big time once the current in-dev dx12 games are on the shelves. Now that vulkan is an option, no reason to start a NEW dx12 game again. I think more devs will follow Id ans the star citizen devs by xmas after whatever they are working on now is complete. I'm hoping to kick my windows habit at some point if this really takes off. I'll still probably be on the IT treadmill for a while for msft, but if the other side looks good enough, I could see switching that too, over to linux (certs worth more there these days anyway in many cases).

    Good points, good day

  16. #15
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    12,975
    Thanks
    778
    Thanked
    1,584 times in 1,339 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    Quote Originally Posted by nobodyspecial View Post
    This was NOT the case the last time AMD took the lead for 3yrs where they won almost EVERYTHING out of the box, and gaming across the board for years.
    But that was against the P4, and the P4 was a complete dog. This is more like the Athlon vs P3 days, trading blows in the race to 1GHz chips. If you are waiting for a clear winner, I honestly doubt there will ever be one.

    On the upside, that means there aren't any clear losers either.

    I presume Dell isn't selling Ryzen based machines yet? Until that happens, there won't be mass workstation sales of Ryzen and Intel will win in the end just like they did last time.

    In the meantime, I just took all the money I could have spent on a new mobo/CPU and spent it on a 3D printer. It seemed more interesting

  17. #16
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    31,023
    Thanks
    1,870
    Thanked
    3,381 times in 2,718 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
      • CPU:
      • Intel i9 9900k
      • Memory:
      • 32GB DDR4 3200 CL16
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 970Evo+ NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2721DGF
      • Internet:
      • rubbish

    Re: id Software CTO talks about a Ryzen optimised game engine

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    In the meantime, I just took all the money I could have spent on a new mobo/CPU and spent it on a 3D printer. It seemed more interesting
    I bought a bike

  18. Received thanks from:

    DanceswithUnix (30-04-2017)

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •