Lowering the carbs?

[DannyM]

Hey folks,

I've just had a browse through some of the threads here about losing weight, building muscle etc... Some seem relevant, but most not. I've just joined the gym and started to eat 'healthy' (well at least a small understanding of what I considered halthy) I'm 5' 9" and weight 16.5stone, so do the math, I'm rather overweight, I have 53% body fat according to the gym gaffer after he measured it yesterday.

He's give me a routine to go about and he wants me to do a few more reps or add a bit more weight everytime I come to the gym, to get my body going. He has me doing everything to get all the muscles in the body going, a bit of cardio work to start with, 10 mins or so, then muscle work, then a cool down period on a bike/tredmill for 10 minutes or so.

I am pretty happy with the workout. However, he's give me a rough idea on what I should be eating, but I'm not right clued up on it all. When I started the gym yesterday, that day I had:

Breakfast: Weetabix (x2 - semi-skimmed milk)
Dinner: Salad (lettuce, carrot, tomato, cucumber, spring onion, cress) and a small tin of tuna (is this too much?)
Tea: Salad (same as above), a chicken fillet piece, I then had a banana about 20 mins after.

I've been drinking water, possibly not as much as I should be, but when I've been thirsty, that's all I've had.

He has told me to avoid carbs, but not completely as thats what give me energy (ofc) but he's said to avoid bread, pasta, potatoes, which I thought made sense, however, I'm now stuck as to what I can eat really. I see a lot of people mentioning brown rice, pasta etc... Are these carb free? Or just low in carbs?

I suppose what I am asking is, what can I eat, without eating the same ol' day in day out? Or does anyone have a few sites with ideas?

Thanks

Edit: a few typos, my arms are aching from the gym this mornign, there like jelly lol.

[Zak33]

I know a man who knows... I'll get him in if I can... but that sounds like a very low volume of protein for a man at a gym... losing weight is onething, but if yuo can't carry my corpe across an ARMA2 map when I get killed, you aint doing it right

[kalniel]

Read up on GI.

Essentially some carbohydrates are easy for the body to break down, while others release energy more slowly. The fast ones like potato, refined flour, white rice, sugars etc. get converted to body fat very easily, while the slow ones like wholemeal flour, durum wheat and wholemeal pasta, brown rice etc. are better for providing energy at a closer rate to which you'll need it, so don't add as much to body fat.

Carbs are really important, so definitely don't skip them (the body has some emergency backups to burn proteins etc if it can't get carbs, but there are nasty side products), but go for slow release ones rather than quick. Even making sure your pasta is al dente rather than soft can make a difference.

In opposition to Zak, I'd say you actually have way more protein than you actually need, but as you're not taking in much fat with it it's okay. Looks pretty good otherwise, but you could probably try and boost fibre yet more - maybe add in some walnuts to the salad occasionally for example, or bran etc.

[Zak33]

I know very little about this stuff.. strike my input off... but a tin of tuna and some chicken and some salad and weetabix... I'd die.. there would be nothing of me...

SeriousSam will know.. I've pm'd him.

[schmunk]

Read up on GI.

Essentially some carbohydrates are easy for the body to break down, while others release energy more slowly.

Yup - this is why I found myself eating pearl barley with my dinner earlier this week; the wife's gone low-GI.

[kalniel]

I know very little about this stuff.. strike my input off... but a tin of tuna and some chicken and some salad and weetabix... I'd die.. there would be nothing of me...

hehe well we're all different - and I don't know anything about the serious body building stuff. But for most people and situations we don't actually need all that much protein - even when you're training up for most sports the requirement isn't that high. (I'm vegetarian and I still get more protein than I need )

[oolon]

Also cook things less, if you cook things it breaks down protein molecules and make it easier for your body to absorb things. I hope your carrot was raw, personally I think raw carrots and peas are much nicer than cooked ones. There was a rather nice article about this in the New Scientist.

[DannyM]

In opposition to Zak, I'd say you actually have way more protein than you actually need, but as you're not taking in much fat with it it's okay. Looks pretty good otherwise, but you could probably try and boost fibre yet more - maybe add in some walnuts to the salad occasionally for example, or bran etc.

Thanks for the reply!

My friend said he has been having brown pasta and chicked for dinner as an example which sounds pretty good to me, but with me been told to avoid carbs, I avoided that. However, I'm probably going to be hitting the gym 4 times a week and hopefully good for a good ol' bike ride every Sunday. So having the food that releases carbs slowly, is possible and option for me then if I am getting a fair amount of excercise?

I've read a bit about the GI, now without sounding too lazy, you don't have a few sites that has a summary of it all with the what to eat and what not to eat etc...?

Thanks all

[SeriousSam]

Will reply in detail later, but suffice to say I don't agree with the "avoid rice and pasta" nonsense or in fact the routine he's given you.

[DannyM]

Thanks for that!

I've been reading through this, and most of it seems like good advice from what I have been told by people anyhow.

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/low...ontrolstep.htm

[kalniel]

Thanks for that!

I've been reading through this, and most of it seems like good advice from what I have been told by people anyhow.

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/low...ontrolstep.htm

I don't agree with that advice at all. Restricting your fast release carb intake like sugars is fine, but you should maintain or increase your slow release carbs like pasta instead. You don't want to lower your overall level of carbohydrate intake usually. And the kind of advice there like eat more fat is just really wrong.

[DannyM]

I don't agree with that advice at all. Restricting your fast release carb intake like sugars is fine, but you should maintain or increase your slow release carbs like pasta instead. You don't want to lower your overall level of carbohydrate intake usually. And the kind of advice there like eat more fat is just really wrong.

That was the one step I avoided reading there, the obvious ones to me are more veg/fruit, it gives a list of fruit and veg in order of carbs, low to high which seemed useful and the fact of changing white pasta/rice/sugar for brown seemed to make sense too.

[SeriousSam]

Ok first off I'll talk about food, whilst avoiding the word diet as to me its a four letter word. There's no point in changing what you eat if its not something you can sustain for the long term. Yes you can reduce calorific intake in the short term to get results, but your body adjusts itself to compensate in time. That means if you start eating more again without a corresponding increase in activity you will just put weight back on. Worse still yo-yoing weight is worse for you than being overweight as it puts more strain on your body.

The key thing is balance as your body needs a healthy mixture of nutrients in order to function properly. So cutting a major food type out is never a good idea unless under the advice of a medical professional. Complex carbohydrates such as rice and pasta are an important part of any healthy eating lifestyle, the key is when you eat them. Due to them being long chain molecules they take longer to digest and absorb. So eating them late at night means that your body is more likely to convert them into stored energy (fat etc.) than burn them off. Conversely if you eat them earlier on during the day this is much less likely to happen. So as has been mentioned using some of the principles of a glycemic diet is a great way to lose weight without having to restrict the foods you eat. All you do is change when you eat them.

As a rule of thumb eat your complex carbs (rice, pasta, potatoes, cereals) in the morning and afternoon, but eat less of them in the afternoon replacing them with simpler carbs from fruit and veg. Personally I like cereal and fruit in the morning and then rice or pasta with veg as part of my lunch. Then later in the day, after 4pm or so I generally don't eat complex carbs. I don't follow this religiously as sometimes eating them in the evening won't be that much of an issue, as long as you've increased your activity level. It may feel odd not having a big meal in the evening, but you get used to it and it also helps your digestive system as well, so you'll feel less bloated in time.

The other thing is fluids (water etc) as getting enough of them also helps improve your digestive system and calorific usage. Your body runs more efficiently when hydrated which again helps you to reduce weight by burning calories and fat. You don't have to drink just water to achieve this, and certainly not overpriced bottled water. Especially as most tap water has shown to be healthier. Fruit juices are a better option, though avoid too much of acidic ones such as apple and orange as they damage your teeth for starters. Soup is another good way as you get plenty of water plus other nutrients.

Protein is more complicated as you need enough of it, but not too much and from a wide variety of sources. Fish (tuna) and white meat (turkey) should be your main sources, but spread the amount you eat over the day. Mix in with that eggs and red meat once or twice a week, plus other 'vegetable' sources such as nuts.

In terms of amounts the the following site gives a good indication; http://www.indoorclimbing.com/Protein_Requirement.html

Beyond that I could go into detail about tomatoes, onions, brassica's (broccoli etc) and other foods which also have additional health benefits. But rather than overcomplicate things, as long as you vary the foods you eat (a) you won't get bored of them and (b) your more likely to get all the nutrients you need plus pick up some fringe benefits. If you are really interested then I can hunt down the names of a few books whic will explain all that. Oh and cooking yourself >>>>>>>>> pre-packed as it always tastes better

Anyway thats enough on that, now to exercise.

The key to using up fat is low intensity exercise and not as you would think high intensity. Further to that weight training won't burn fat, but it does improve muscle tone and shape so you look better even with the same level of bodyfat. So to start with your priority should be on increasing your overall activity level by walking more, using stairs not lifts or anything to keep you heartrate ticking over at more than resting rate without pushing it too high.

Yes going to the gym is good as well but don't rely on it as you won't always be able to go. Further to that don't always go to weight-train as your muscles need rest as well. The bigger the muscle the longer it needs to recover. Add in some days where you just do cardiovascular exercise. But again you don't have to kill yourself at the start, that comes later if you decide to get properly fit. Long periods on a bike and so on at 60% of maximum heartrate is of more use to you at present than shorter at 80%.

If you want any more information on training specifics let me know.

[DannyM]

Thanks Sam!

I like what your saying about the food as I've been a little lost with what sort of variety I can eat. I'd be taking a lot of lunches to work/uni I take it taking some pasta with some meat and some salad would be OK eaten all cold? (eg, is there any difference between warm/cold foods for the body?)

I think what I could do with doing is getting some list/recipes together of meals etc... Like a few different choices for breakfast, I think for the moment I might look at 2x Wheatabix and a banana which sounds OK to me? I'm just a bit stuck for the lunches/dinners right now.

Today I had pasta (wholeweat) and tuna. Then for tea I had a piece of chicken fillet (no veg, folks didn't do a shopping run) which probably isn't too nutricious? My dad said stir fry with a small amount of oli-voil, which I know'd be tasty, but not sure if it would be too healthy?

I'd appreciate any links or advice to healthy recipes (I know it should be common sense to some, but to me it's all new)

Thanks!

[SiM]

Good post Sam but I and most of the experts disagree with this:

The key to using up fat is low intensity exercise and not as you would think high intensity. Further to that weight training won't burn fat, but it does improve muscle tone and shape so you look better even with the same level of bodyfat. So to start with your priority should be on increasing your overall activity level by walking more, using stairs not lifts or anything to keep you heartrate ticking over at more than resting rate without pushing it too high.

Both high intensity and low intensity can be effective at burning fat. There is plenty of research proving high intensity may be more effective as it can increase metabolism for a longer time after exercising (search on google and see). Weight training will burn fat too plus more muscle increases your resting metabolic rate which means you burn more calories doing nothing.

There was a study done many years ago which split a sample into 3 groups. 1 weight training only, 1 cardio only and 1 half session of each. After a few months the group that did both lost the most fat and the cardio only lost the least fat (but remember fat loss does not equal weight loss, you can lose muscle weight too). I will try to find a link for you with the details of this study.

Also if you want to lose fat fast then cutting down on the carbs is a good idea. After a few days your body will go into ketosis (which means it will use fat for energy instead of carbs). This is not something you want to do for too long though. But 1 month of ketosis will do no harm and will shed body fat very fast. Remember to keep protein high and keep weight training and you will lose little muscle. Something which is currently quite popular and has worked for a lot of people is the Velocity Diet.
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_p...30?vdietNavTop
http://ifitandhealthy.com/velocity-diet-explained/
http://www.phatko.com/89-velocity-di...ults-and-tips/

Do not avoid eating fat. Fat (especially saturated) is required for optimal hormone levels. Without fat you will not produce as much testosterone. Have a read of this. It is in everyone's interest to cut down carbs a little and eat more fat (same number of calories) - this is something the FSA and media have completely misunderstood, just search on google and you can learn the facts. The only bad fat is trans or hydrogenated fat - this is sort of a man-made fat (does occur naturally in very small quantities).

Some more links to read:
http://www.musclehack.com/the-satura...yth-destroyed/
http://stronglifts.com/cardio-fat-lo...uratio-cardio/
more to come...

[DannyM]

Thanks for the reply

just search on google and you can learn the facts.

Something I wanted to avoid if I could as Google doesn't hold a fantastic track record for 'true' facts