Greatest Weapons of All Time

[Zak33]

used to be a bloke called Terry Brown who took on multiple people at one with his quarter staff.... u tube has failed though as it was long ago!

[Zak33]

bingo....

1711 Zachary Wylde wrote something called The English Master of Defence
http://www.the-exiles.org/Manual%20Zach%20Wylde.htm

Now according to Order, I shall proceed to Quarter-Staff, the common Length is seven Foot, I divide it into three Parts thus, The Part which you take first hold on, I call the Handle or Butt end of the Staff, the Middle is half Part of the Staff, the Remaining completes the Length of the Staff. It is a true British Weapon, of great Antiquity, much Practised and Admired in former Days; to give it its due Praise, it is a most Noble Weapon, and very useful in several Respects, it is in the Nature of a double Weapon, by reason when you Exercise it, you make use of both Hands: I wonder that it is not more in Vogue in this Nation, considering its Excellency, for a Man that rightly understands it, may bid defiance, and laugh at any other Weapon, for it has a double Advantage in many kinds of all others; the long Pike, half Pike, or Pitchfork, may be termed Fools to it, no, they can't in the least come in Competition with it.

"for a Man that rightly understands it, may bid defiance, and laugh at any other Weapon"

if his first name doesn't impress you.. it should

[kalniel]

The Cross-Buttock is broken by turning your Buttock to the Parties you are engaged with, and quitting your Holds

Quite!

[Zak33]

it IS old.....

[scaryjim]

... http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html ...

I think "Glaive glaive glaive guisarme glaive" might be my favourite webcomic line of all time

[TooNice]

The problem with the ranged category is that it really depends where you "spawn" (distance and terrain). Pre-firearm, I'd say that the bow is likely the best on average overall, but if you "spawn" at 10m, an expert knife thrower would probably have the edge. And it is the same post-firearms (large calibre gun can hit target over a mile away), but at closer range, and handgun/sub-machine gun is probably more appropriate..

As for the AK-47, my understanding (based on reading, I have zero experience with firearms) is that it provides amazing bang-for-buck. At 1/4 the cost of a M16, it is not surprising that it is used in far, far, more places. But looking at the spec side by side, it seems to me that the M16 has the edge is many (though not all) key categories.

As to the staff, I am not sold. There are people who can take on multiple others depending on who they face, the quoted passage doesn't come up with a convincing arguments. There are longer weapons that uses two hands with something pointy or sharp attached to it. No doubt it can be effective in the right hands, but I am not sure that a group of expert vs another group of expert using other weapons would see the staff come up with the most victories.

[scaryjim]

Anyone who's ever played D&D 4th edition knows that the staff is just about the only weapon worth bothering with

As with anything, it's situational though. Listen to the guys at Warwick Castle and the greataxe is the only weapon you need ("This ... is a BIG AXE"). I'm personally fond of the staff though: incredibly versatile and really quite lethal. Sure you could put a point on the end and call it a spear, but in one-on-one fighting you're still essentially using it like a staff, and unless you're using modern techniques to make your pointy bit (at which point surely you'd just pick a modern weapon instead) you're unlikely to be able to thrust it through any kind of armour.

Anyway, how about a left-field post-firearms ranged duelling weapon: tazer! Sorry Nick

[TooNice]

But not every person you face is going to be armoured from head to toe, and considering that a cut need not be fatal (hand, leg etc.) to be debilitating surely a pointy stick is more versatile than a non-pointy one?
And for duelling, I wonder I wonder how the quarterstaff would fare against a three-section staff. Seems harder to control, but I wonder if it is not also much harder to predict.

[Zak33]

And for duelling, I wonder I wonder how the quarterstaff would fare against a three-section staff. Seems harder to control, but I wonder if it is not also much harder to predict.

dont wonder too long.. when that dire cheesy americal tv shows was on comapring lethal weapons.. the 3 section staff with chain link, that looks so awesome when whizzed about your body like Bruce Lee.... had a very low damage rating for it's thump.

Very low.

[Zak33]

As for the AK-47, my understanding (based on reading, I have zero experience with firearms) is that it provides amazing bang-for-buck. At 1/4 the cost of a M16, it is not surprising that it is used in far, far, more places. But looking at the spec side by side, it seems to me that the M16 has the edge is many (though not all) key categories.

while thats what people want you to think....

5.56mm vs 7.62mm is a great difference for a ranged weapon carrying energy down range and it's ability to last for 20 years in a mud hut and still fire is awesome.

Plus.. the folded stock version AKMS is affedtively a sub machine gun with bigger balls.

Would I choose one online gaming?

nope....

Stehr Aug cos I'm a tart

[TooNice]

I drew my conclusion assuming the Wiki data is correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari..._AK-47_and_M16
The AK47 is certainly a more powerful gun with more energy delivered (12%) and better penetration.
But the M16 is more accurate, shoot further and allows the soldier to carry less weight or more ammo (or accessories - plentiful on the M16, yet scarce on the AK-47) for the same weight. And apparently, the newer revisions are pretty reliable too.

So, the scenario where the AK47 would have an edge is when the soldiers are both within range of one another and behind cover that is too thick for 5.56mm to penetrate, yet too thin to stop the the 7.62mm. It is a fairly specific scenario.

I'd say that being able to shoot more accurately from further is more likely going to fulfil the OPs winning condition. So I stand by my previous statement. The AK-47 is amazing bang for buck when you consider that it is 1/4th the cost and still manage to be more powerful. But the M16 does win in more, at least equally important category.

[SeriousSam]

The AK47 for when you absolutely don't care about where the bullets are going to hit and just want lead to fly in all directions

Anyway if we are talking greatest weapon of all time then number 1 is and always will be the human mind as everything else flows from that. Still as anyone who's watched Spartan vs. Ninja the formers shield is a handy piece of kit!!

[Zak33]

I think the M4 is superior and I think many soldiers would rather have it than the M16

However... the simple fact is.. the AK47 is everwhere. You can find spare parts in mud huts , in tribal caves.. and the ammo is literally everywhere.

In the same way that the latest RangeRover is an awesome piece of kit on and off road....but the Land Rover Defender is ancient and about to go out of production...the fact is in 25 years time.. Range Rovers won't still be running up sand dunes ... but Defenders will.. and AK47's will still be the best most used, all round ranged weapon.


(In my opinion...which clearly is right )

then there is cost.....

$160 EACH for AK47..... and getting on for $600 for M4's (M16 repleacement/evo)

4 for the price of 1.....

[TooNice]

My Google-Fu suggests that.. your statement is one about third-correct in the sense that "many" soldiers would indeed rather have M4.. but it ignores that "many" others would prefer the M16, and whether the M4 is "superior" is definitely disputed. In this case, the M16 is the slightly more powerful weapon, capable of being effective at a slightly further range but the M4's shorter barrel makes it more suitable for more space restricted location. So it comes down to, are you fighting in a desert or in some kind of facilities? Though I doubt there is much to differentiate the two anyway.

Cost matters in the real world, sure. But the scenario in the OP pretty much assume that the soldier is already equipped with the weapon with a realistic amount of ammo. So I think that we can safely ignore the bang for buck aspects and focus on "Which is the more useful portable weapon given a range of scenarios". The AK47, to me, doesn't seem like an all-rounded ranged weapon. It has more power than many assault rifle, at the cost of weight, range and accuracy. Not a great trade off in my opinion.

I should note that I am not particularly invested in the M16. The gun has been revised many times, but if there are any better assault rifles at any cost of newer design built from the ground up, I'd be interested in hearing about it. But by better, I am not referring to power alone. Seems like the debates rages on though (the FN SCAR series sound quite interesting).

[Lowe]

Been reading this thread with interest, especially the more melee oriented stuff. I've practiced martial arts for some time, and under my current school get to dabble with weapons now and then. It's not really a focus for us so we're not experts by any means, but it does give an interesting insight into how you can use various weapons.

In our experience the staff (Bo) is great, but it is vastly outweighed by...


... a pair of bamboo sticks. Seriously, double wielded foot and a half bamboo sticks are monster weapons that's nigh on impossible to block. It's incredibly quick, and also very easy for the user to dummy or feint an attack. As well as the obvious strikes you can use the butt to smash into pressure points that a staff is too thick for, and use it as a wrench to manipulate joints too. Hell even a single stick can do a *lot* of damage.

Here's a few slo-mo techniques to illustrate what I mean. Yes they're against an unarmed, semi compliant victim but as I say - illustration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5i4...gqRNU0-UT05ITA

Also, a little bit of more 'fluid' weapon work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVvs...gqRNU0-UT05ITA

You can see the staff generally quickly gets over powered by a couple of sticks once the range is closed down. That said, make sure you watch the last 10 seconds.

[starkyller]

Category 1 - All Time, Melee Weapons only

What is the all-time best weapon for duelling?
All-Round: samurai sword

Urban:axe
Open Ground:spear
Jungle: spear
Mountainous/Hilly: sword

What is the all-time best weapon for battlefield combat?
All-Round:

Same thing


Category 2 - All Time, Ranged Weapons only

What is the all-time best weapon for duelling?
All-Round:bow

Urban throwing knife
Open Ground bow
Jungle bow
Mountainous/Hilly throwing knife

What is the all-time best weapon for battlefield combat?
All-Round: throwing axe

Urban throwing knife
Open Ground rock
Jungle throwing knife
Mountainous/Hilly rock


Category 3 - Pre-Firearm, All Weapons

What is the all-time best weapon for duelling?
All-Round: mp7

Urban m9
Open Ground m4a16
Jungle ak47
Mountainous/Hilly barrett .50 sniper rifle

What is the all-time best weapon for battlefield combat?
All-Round m4a16

Urban m4
Open Ground granade
Jungle flame thrower
Mountainous/Hilly barret.50