Large Disk Advice:

[ikonia]

I'm doing a hardware upgrade for my home setup.

I'm replacing some storage.

I'd like to replace the storage I have with 3 x 3 TB in a raid 5 array.

I need to make clear that these are NOT performance disks, simply mass storage, I'm more concerned with power consumption and reliability.

I looked at the green technology disks and thought against these as their relability seems exceptionally poor.

So with that in mind, I need disks of at least 3TB, I want reliability and lower power as these will be running pretty much 24x7, what are the suggestions ?

[jim]

You want green disks, basically exactly the same as normal disks but they spin at 5400-5900rpm rather than 7200rpm. Quieter, colder, and less power hungry. Whether it also makes them more reliable, I'm not sure, but you would imagine that spinning slower helps their lifespan.

As for brand, your call, but I don't think it makes the slightest difference.

WD call them Green, other manufacturers have different terminology. Just look at the quoted RPM.

[peterb]

I have come to the conclusion that a lot of reliability (or unreliability) stems from how disks are handled in transit, so it is as much the retailer/courier/packing issue as the make.

Personally I have never had any problems with Samsung or WD. Samsungs seem to be slightly better on power and also run a bit cooler, which might be important to you. Others swear by Hitachi.

As for retailer, I usually get mine from Scan as they use copious amounts of bubble wrap, but as you have a Novatech in Bristol, you might want to collect them in person. Their range tends to be smaller though.

I haven't seen any strong evidence that 'green' drives are less reliable than 'regular' drives, although I haven't looked closely. To mitigate against that you could have a spare drive spun down (depending on how you are doing your RAID) but if course adds to cost and 'real estate' in the case.

Not sure I have been too much help, maybe a few things to consider though.

Good to see you again!

[ikonia]

I thought like this up until a few weeks ago.

However looking at the statistics on the web there is massive problems with the green disks implementation of technology.

Some have real issues parking the heads which cause relability issues
others seem to have issues slowing down/speeding up which causes issues.

I'm aware of two chums who had "green" disks fail in under 3 months, which I thought was extreme until a collegue bought a green disk and it failed in 9 days.

If the green technology works stable for disks that are pretty much always on and can show a power saving, I'd be made up, but I'm pretty scared of the failure rate of these disks that I'm seeing

[kalniel]

Are you talking about variable speed technology? They might have an additional point of failure, but most of the 'green' disks people are talking about are fixed speed 5400/5900rpm that will be no less reliable than fixed speed 7200rpm drives - there is no additional power saving technology to go wrong. Simply go for a fixed speed drive and you should be fine.

I'm currently using a Seagate 2tb 'green' drive and it's been 100% fine and more reliable than a 1tb 7200rpm drive from Samsung. It is also marginally quicker (especially write speeds).

[ikonia]

I've struggled to find fixed speed disks, the slower 5400/5900rpm drives would be perfect for what I want, but they all seem to have a generic green label which when you research could be any one of the green options that vendor offers, variable speed/head parking/fixed speed.

[kalniel]

I don't think the baracuda's have variable speed. Eg:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2tb-s...he-8ms-ncq-oem

more info: http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.js...001a48090aRCRD

edit - sorry, above it 2tb, ignore.

[jim]

I've struggled to find fixed speed disks, the slower 5400/5900rpm drives would be perfect for what I want, but they all seem to have a generic green label which when you research could be any one of the green options that vendor offers, variable speed/head parking/fixed speed.

I really think your phobia is a bit unwarranted.

If these features were causing so many problems, the manufacturers wouldn't be implementing them. I've owned boatloads of Samsung F3 and F4 drives and I don't think a single one has failed.

Last time I read up on it, there was no such thing as a variable speed drive and it was a myth that came from ambiguous marketing, and head parking temporarily caused conflicts with RAID systems and TLER (but that was a very long time ago and I presume it's sorted now).

If you're so concerned, then just buy 7200rpm drives and be done with it.

[dave87]

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3tb-h...32mb-cache-8ms

I'd suggest something like that might fit the bill?

I've used the Samsung HD204UI F4EG in my Microserver, and the pair run noticeably cooler than the WD 500gb drive in the same machine. That said, Samsung's HDD business was bought by Seagate, so no idea which is the suitable Seagate recommendation, if any.

[kalniel]

Last time I read up on it, there was no such thing as a variable speed drive and it was a myth that came from ambiguous marketing, and head parking temporarily caused conflicts with RAID systems and TLER (but that was a very long time ago and I presume it's sorted now).

Western Digital's 'green' drives have variable speed. (Intelliseek)
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=120

edit: yup, dave's suggestion above is a good call.

[ikonia]

the WD disk where two out of the three that failed, and when I researched them it seemed a pretty common user case issue, rather than marketing hype.


I'd read positive things about the samsung disk and that's where I'd been heading until I posted this thread for a bit more experienced in the hardware market advice.

I'm not being paranoid about these disks having seen three fail myself, it made me do a little research and the WD's came up pretty agressivly in failure posts on forums/reviews, as did a hitatchi model.

I'm all for using a green disk spinning at a constant slower speed (these will go in a raid stripe) but as I've said I'm not after performance, more relability and power saving, so if you guys are saying there are a few solid brands/models that can be trusted for long term reliable use, I'm all ears and very much open to the suggestion

[ikonia]

ahh the cool spin disks, these where the ones that got the best review in terms of "technology" that I'd read they also seemed to offer very good power saving, not sure if this was the model that got a panning in the relability front though, I'll need to check.

Quite a good solid price in the current pricing market too

[jim]

Western Digital's 'green' drives have variable speed. (Intelliseek)
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=120

edit: yup, dave's suggestion above is a good call.

I had a feeling it was Western Digital... when I last read up on it, it was supposed to be nonsense.

I've no idea what I read the first time, but here's a link:

http://storagemojo.com/2009/08/24/wd...green-promise/

WD’s Intellipower feature varies sets rotational speed of the drive between 5400 and 7200 RPM ” depending on what the best solution is for that model.” There’s a performance hit versus always full speed drives of course, but if power and cooling is an issue the modest tradeoff could be worth it.

Looks as though that was Intellipower and that now with Intelliseek they've actually delivered on what people thought Intellipower did (but didn't).

[jim]

I'm not being paranoid about these disks having seen three fail myself, it made me do a little research and the WD's came up pretty agressivly in failure posts on forums/reviews, as did a hitatchi model.

That's what damaged Samsung so badly though. The F1 was such a cheap drive that huge numbers of people bought them, and then when 1% of them or whatever failed, that 1% represented a huge number of people.

All of a sudden it's an unreliable drive, through no fault of its own.

I don't disagree with what you've seen, just warning that there's a lot of rubbish spread about hard drives and reliability, and with very small sample sizes you can't really draw conclusions with any certainty.

[ikonia]

no certainty sure,

however seeing 3 fail myself out of 4 bought and being aware of others having similar problems makes me cautious, hence posting here.

The WD technology appears flawed from the sheer volume of posts, I fully see the point you make about 100000,00000000 drives being sold because they are good, the %1 failure rate would be greater than 10,000 being sold and a %5 failure rate, making the %5 drive a less reliable drive, yet on paper a safer option.