Thecus N299 Mediabolic Server NOT working with Zyxel DMA-1000

[syonix]

Hi Forum, this is my first post, hope it's a good one, proving to be topical and above all helpfull to the community...

OK so I didn't buy a Zyxel NSA-220 to work with their DMA-1000.

As I understand it, these 2 products use a Twonky Server and client.

I have the Thecus N299 which uses the Mediabolic Server now owned by Macrovision.

To the best of my knowledge, all 3 devices mentioned above use uPnP and are DLNA certified (whatever that means?) So, a Thecus N299 should work with the Zyxel DMA-1000 right? Erm, well, this seems to not be the case.

The setup here is fairly straight forward:

A Zyxel DMA1000 plugged into a Netgear GS108 Gigabit Switch where a
Thecus N299 NAS is also plugged into the same switch.

Both products acquire all IP info via the network's DHCP.

Using iTune client software on a couple of PCs on the same switch we are able to access and play MP3 and M4A Music from the Thecus N299 NAS.

We are also able to browse folders & files on the Thecus N299 NAS either
via Internet Explorer Web browser of Windows Explorer using the CIFS /
SMB sharing ability.

However, the Zyxel DMA1000 has seen the Thecus N299 NAS Mediabolic
Server uPnP. But, when I press OK on the Zyxel DMA1000 remote to connect
to it, I get a pop-up message saying Authorization Failure. I have
looked through all documentation available for the Zyxel DMA1000 and
searched the Internet on this error but find nothing. I have also looked
through the N299 manual for any clues and made some changes, still after
many attempts the Zyxel DMA1000 continues to fail to connect. I have
added user accounts to the Thecus N299, activated the NFS service on the
service folders, i.e. iTunes folder and of course Media Server service
is on. I have also allowed browsing the root from any network.

I start to wonder because despite both products supporting uPnP and
supposed to be DLNA certified / compliant, the Zyxel DMA1000 running
Twonky Client and the Thecus N299 running Mediabolic Server could be
incompatible? Perhaps I should inform the DLNA as either both products
or one of them should be excluded from being DLNA Certified etc...until
they are both seen to work together in a DLNA environment....

Surely we are not going down the same route for Digital Media Streaming as we did for VHS versus Betamax as we currently are with Blu Ray versus HD DVD?

I would have hoped that basic compliance of uPnP standards and perhaps DLNA certification would mean to the general public they could remain confident in their purchases working together on this network.

Can anyone in the Thecus Forum here in Hexus help?

Or, am I blowing this all out of proportion while I wait to hear back from Zyxel Technical Support to resolve this problem?

I look forward to your comments....

Martin aka Syonix

[Splash]

I don't have an N299, but from the 10 minutes I've spent fiddling with the DMA1000 it seems one of 2 things is happening: either the N299 is not recieving the broadcast from the DMA1000 or the DMA1000 isn't being permitted to access the data on the N299 (using the Windows server software that comes with the DMA1000 you must grant the DMA1000 access to the server in the "publish" menu).

Does the N299 have any form of logging so you could check to see if the broadcast from your DMA1000 is being recieved? Is there an "anonymous" account on the N299, and if so does it have the permissions to the share?

[syonix]

Thanks Splash. You have some good ideas. I didn't install the software on any computers as didn't think I would need it and try to avoid cluttering PCs with uneccessary software.

I could try installing the software say on this machine but as you can appreciate the name of the game here is getting the N299 server to work with the DMA1000.

How about the Thecus Gurus who live in here???? They probably would have answers to your questions. I am not aware of an "anonymous" account on the N299.

I've just had a look at the 4 Thecus Moderators, seems like 3 of them have not logged in for several months. Only Yvon seems to be the person who is still helping us out. Official Thecus Support Representative no less I do hope she will login soon...

[syonix]

I spoke to Craig Robertson of Macrovision today who is responsible for Mediabolic at macrovision here in the UK. He doesn't have any immediate answers for me at the moment. But, he is contacting a colleague at Macrovision/Mediabolic in the USA. He is trying to find out what the relationship is between Thecus and Macrovision/Mediabolic as far as the use of the Mediabolic Software on the N299. I guess he is going to see if they still have an obligation to support Thecus on this problem. They do not support customers directly only their partners.

I tried to contact Thecus support, seems like they are on holiday celebrating the Chinese New Year from now until 11th Feb????

Am starting to think I need to set a deadline for all of this

Am thinking I will give this until the end of the week, and if no resolution in sight and it's still not working the Thecus N299 can go back to Scan. I'll be brand loyal to Zyxel and get that Zyxel NSA-220 running Twonky.

So anyone out there

Syonix

[syonix]

Email reply received from Zyxel this morning. Come On Thecus where are you????

Hi Martin,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this, i was looking into this on Friday for you but was ill over the weekend/Monday.

The DMA-1000 supports UPnP to support connecting to a network and diplaying its abilities to other devices and like you say is DLNA V1 certified (and shown on the DLNA website as a certified product)

The Thecus N299 however uses UPnP AV 2.0 for its media streaming capabilities rather than using a DLNA certified server and is NOT listed on the DLNA certified products list (I could not see any Thecus products) I could also not find any reference to DLNA support within the N299 user manual V11.

Also, As the DMA-1000 is displaying that error message - it would appear to me that the Thecus N299 is denying the connection though rather than the DMA-1000 not being able to see/connect (probably due to both having UPnP enabled thus seeing each other), however, i should imagine as neither support a common format (UPnP AV/DLNA) that a connection between these two will not be possible.

Regards,

Technical Support
Zyxel Communications Uk Ltd

[syonix]

I've replied to Zyxel's email.

I searched Google for Thecus DLNA N299, found the link below which says quote:

"Many of Thecus' storage products include the Embedded Media Server from Mediabolic®. This software solution is fully DLNA compliant, which makes each product fully compatible with DLNA devices."

I have downloaded a couple of DLNA certificates in Adobe PDF format which show that this software which runs on the Thecus N299 is DLNA compliant. The certificates say DLNA V1 Certified so this should mean that the N299 and DMA1000 should be compatible. I wonder if it is just a permissions issue???

I really wish Thecus and/or Macrovision would get back to me to tell me how to get the permissions sorted to that the DMA-1000 is authorised to browse the Thecus N299

Syonix

[poolking]

Originally Posted by syonix

Email reply received from Zyxel this morning. Come On Thecus where are you????

Thecus.care@HEXUS - Notice (Please Read)

[syonix]

Yes thank you Poolking, I had read that and am aware of what it says.

Moving swiftly on I have received more info from Zyxel which may prove to be useful to people in this forum or through Web searches, in particular info about UPnP:


Very strange then. I can clarify that the DMA-100 only supports UPnP V1, not AV or V2.

UPnP AV enchanced the V1 specification of displaying abilities/auto configuring of devices by adding in the containers for media serving acapabilities. UPnP AV V2 is backward compatible with AV v1 but the DMA-1000 only uses UPnP V1 (not AV) for the configuration of its IP address etc. The reason being its not AV certified is the DLNA V1 client should be able to manage media serving capabilities.

I have checked the DLNA certified list and the embedded media server is indeed on there, though not under the name of Thecus as i was searching for that. Strangely though DLNA is not mentioned once in their manual for the product (which made me believe the product was not DLNA certifed) The two products should definatly be compatible then as you say and this would indeed sounds like a permissions problem. Have you had any useful information back from Macrovision regarding this yet? Unfortunately we do not have a Thecus NSA unit in our lab to test.
Regards,

Technical Support
Zyxel Communications Uk Ltd

[syonix]

Both companies Thecus and Zyxel say that their product is DLNA compliant.

However, as it's not working as if it were DLNA compliant here then one of the units must be faulty?

Or

Could it be misrepresentation / miss-selling that these products are sold as DLNA compliant when in fact they are not?

While I still haven't heard anything from Thecus nor from Macrovision, I'm now going to contact DLNA Administration questioning the certification of the Zyxel DMA1000 and the Mediabolic Server Software.

Syonix

[syonix]

Email received this morning from Zyxel:

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the update and sorry to hear of the troubles you are having wih Scan, i would've thought they could of done that for you.

I will escalate this my side as well to try find a resolution to this, unfortunately, our R&D team is in China and they are currently celebrating their chinese new year so there will be a delay in any feedback from them.

This is also the first time i have known of any issues with two DLNA certified devices not working with each other, We have tested many different NSA boxes in our office with teh DMA-1000 and not had any issue (sadly not a Thecus though) so their feedback would be very interesting to see.

I will also update you once i have any feedback from our R&D team.

Regards,

Technical Support
Zyxel Communications Uk Ltd

[syonix]

I have tried numerous ways of contacting Thecus about this problem, emaling support, completing online forms on Thecus.com and .de and of course here. I have not telephoned Taiwan, nor am I going to call Germany or the USA now.

In the absence of any response from the Thecus Organisation, Zyxel have very kindly offered to swap my Thecus N299 with their NSA-220 which will get rid of the problem for me but also enable them to investigate the problem further in their test lab.

Macrovision (Mediabolic) have tried to contact me, however I've not been able to get back to them so far today. Maybe they have a resolution, maybe they don't?

I am going to Zyxel today to demonstrate the problem and leave my N299 with them.

My intention is to pass contact details to each of the representatives of the 4 organisations listed below:

Zyxel
Thecus
Macrovision / Mediabolic
DLNA

Hopefully, they will be able to resolve this and justify their DLNA certification.

Nice try guys, good theory, but in practice doesn't always work.

I said I would conclude this week, that I am.

Good Luck Thecusites....

Syonix

[Nelviticus]

Well I'm in a similar, though slightly different situation to you. I have a Zyxel DMA-1000 and a Thecus N1200, which uses the same server software as the N299. They connect to a D-Link DIR-655 router.

When I very first hooked up the Zyxel to test whether or not it worked, it could see the Thecus and browse folders. I plumbed it all in properly and now ... no servers seen. I also have a Buffalo Linkstation on the same network and enabled the UPnP server on that, but it can't be seen either. The DMA-1000 definitely has network access because it successfully downloaded new firmware last night.

So I'm completely stumped. As the DMA-1000 doesn't have a web interface there's very little investigation I can do - it gets an IP address from DHCP and the router shows that it's connected, but that's as much as I can check. Syonix, if you ever get this working please post back!

[ccomley]

Originally Posted by Nelviticus

Well I'm in a similar, though slightly different situation to you. I have a Zyxel DMA-1000 and a Thecus N1200, which uses the same server software as the N299. They connect to a D-Link DIR-655 router.

When I very first hooked up the Zyxel to test whether or not it worked, it could see the Thecus and browse folders. I plumbed it all in properly and now ... no servers seen. I also have a Buffalo Linkstation on the same network and enabled the UPnP server on that, but it can't be seen either. The DMA-1000 definitely has network access because it successfully downloaded new firmware last night.

So I'm completely stumped. As the DMA-1000 doesn't have a web interface there's very little investigation I can do - it gets an IP address from DHCP and the router shows that it's connected, but that's as much as I can check. Syonix, if you ever get this working please post back!

I would be interested to hear if you've moved on since this thread died.

We resell both Thecus and Zyxel. I have a DMA1000 working with a Zyxel NSA240. I have not as yet tried it with a Thecus but will do so as soon as it comes back from the client I've currently lent it to and see how far I get. And I *certainly* expect to get more input from Thecus on the problem than the participants in this thread so far....

[syonix]

Update for everyone:

Here's email received from Thecus Support Europe:

From: Thecus Support Europe
Sent: 12 February 2008 10:55
To: Syonix
Subject: N299


Dear sir,

N299 is not using the mediabolic server. We are using uShare on this NAS.

My colleague from Taiwan suggest you to try the following:

The N299 Media Server function via uShare, not from Mediabolic, about this DLNA/MEDIA SERVER issue, please try on SFTDMA to verify this issue from N299 or DMA100:
Try Free - CyberLink Digital Home Enabler Kit - Easy Home Networking

Mit freundlichen Gruessen
Sincerely - Kind regards - Salutations - Saludos -
Tanti Saluti - Salamu njema - Met vriendelijke groeten



Technical Director Europe




Email:
Internet: Thecus: thecus.de

Here's my response:

Sent: 21 February 2008 16:23
To: 'Thecus Support Europe'
Subject: FAO: Holger Chemnitz at Thecus Support Germany FW: Paul Smith in Tech Support _ Thecus N299 DMA1000 issues


Dear ,

Thanks for your email. Just to bring you up to date. I have taken your N299 to Zyxel in the UK and demonstrated the problem in their Lab. They have kept this unit to look into this problem further and have provided me with a Zyxel NSA 220 to replace your Thecus N299. I didn't quite understand why you wanted me to go to Cyberlink. See my comments below in my email to Zyxel, as they now have your unit and are working on the problem it's more for them to try these things out. However, it might be good for your public relations to show some contribution to resolving what perhaps might turn out to be a Thecus problem????

Please keep me in the loop with future correspondence as I am also actively involved in other areas like Hexus. I will also forward another problem with a Thecus 1200 and DMA1000 not working, posted on the Hexus Forum.

To date nearly a month later I have not had a reply from Thecus to my email and to the best of my knowledge neither have Zyxel.

Here's the latest email I have received from Xyxel on this matter:

Sent: 19 February 2008 01:24
Subject: [ZyPartner #46310]: FW: Digital Media Streamer DMA1000 Authorization Failure connecting to Thecus N299 NAS

Hi Martin,

A bit of an update but not much.

Our R&D team are investigating this themselves and are getting a Thecus in themselves, they seem pretty concerned on this and are looking into it rather than "we will see what happens".

Interestingly, another customer spoke to me saying that he has a Buffalo Terastation Lite which would connect but not display any files (blank directories). A bit of research later and this also runs the Mediabolic server - maybe not a coincidence?? also escalated to R&D but i really do think this is a Mediabolic problem and not ours as we do work with every other brand of server i have tested.

Like i say an update but not much information, will keep you posted

Regards,

Technical Support
Zyxel Communications Uk Ltd

[Nelviticus]

I have managed to make some progress with my set-up. The Zyxel is not the problem, the fault lies in the N1200's server software.

If I share my Music folder the Mediabolic server seems to crash. The only way you find out about this is that it can no longer be seen by devices on the network - neither the Zyxel nor the CyberLink software, which emulates a network media player. The 'Media Manager' page of the N1200's web interface still looks fine and doesn't report any problems, but if you try to remove a shared folder even though it pops up a 'folder removed' message it doesn't get actually removed unless you're very lucky. I had to remove my Music folder about 20 times before it actually get removed, at which point after a delay (can't remember whether I had to re-boot it) the Zyxel and CyberLink could both see the N1200 and its videos again.

I tried to narrow the problem down by creating a second music folder, copying a few MP3s to there (making sure there were no 'dodgy' characters in the file names) and sharing that. I started with a single album and it seemed to work so I added a few more. After about four or five albums I realised that the list of music files that the media players could see was corrupt - artist and album names appearing 20 times as music tracks, track names appearing as albums and so on. This list is still being broadcast by the server even though I have un-shared and deleted that music folder.

Luckily for me I'm mainly interested in sharing video, which now works, so I have put up with this. I have had the N1200 for well over a year so it's unlikely Scan would be willing to replace it now.

The moral of the story: don't share music with the Mediabolic server in a Thecus N1200. I haven't been brave enough to try sharing photos since I got the video-sharing working!

I haven't contacted Thecus as I'm sure the fix would require new firmware and the N1200 hasn't had any new non-beta firmware since it was released. I would still love to hear from Thecus though if they care to respond to this thread or the other thread that I started about it.

Regards

[n_s_simpson]

Hi People

Well I've just signed up for membership to this forum. Perhaps more answers on here than my attempts at AV Forums.

Not sure if I can post a link to another forum so if it's a problem please remove and I'll know for next time.

avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6749825 (sorry only way I could post link - not posted 5 things)

Any ideas?