New TV Time

[virtuo]

As a reward for redecorating the lounge, I'm allowed to get a new TV

I've been doing a lot of searching and have gotten completely lost as to what set I should get. As usual, I've got a good list of requirements and usage cases, but as soon as I close in on making a choice, I read stories of image retention, motion blur and backlight bleed. All of which I'd like to avoid.

Hopefully someone here has had similar requirements and can make a good recommendation.


+ Size is important, I've got a 36" ish cheapo TV from ASDA (cast off from my dad), it's rubbish. I've got a big space to fill and would ideally like a larger screen. I've been looking in the 42"-55" range. I'll be sat 10-12 feet away, but can move the couch back further.

+ I have an HTPC that does everything I need, so I don't really want a "Smart" TV, that is out of date in a few years and fiddly to control with a remote. I'd much prefer a good quality "dumb" TV, if one exists.

+ I'll be hooking up external surround speakers (not purchased yet), so the speakers don't have to be fantastic, though I don't want a screen with no speakers at all.

+ I won't be wall mounting the TV. I like it eye height. A sturdy/good looking stand would be nice.

+ I'll be hooking up the usual consoles, so plenty of inputs (HDMI, Component and SCART if possible) and a top-end response time.refresh rate is important.

+ I'm not convinced with 3D, although I do have a couple of 3D blurays so having the feature won't be bad. 3D seems to be a gimmick that is already fading away, but I've heard that 3D panels have better 2D performance than 2D ones. Is this still true?

+ I watch a lot of films and fast moving sport so the picture quality/black depth/refresh rate are hugely important. I'm willing to pay a premium for something that'll blow me away visually.

+ I'm not too snobbish about who makes it. I would like something with a good manufacturer's warranty. The Samsung screens always catch my eye in store, very bright and great colours. But I haven't found one that isn't smothered in "Smart" features.

Budget is quite flexible, I've been looking in the range of £600-£1000. But I'd consider moving on that to get the perfect TV for my needs. And if there's something cheaper, even better!



I'm pretty clueless on the pros and cons of LCD, LED and Plasma. LED seems to be good for colour/brightness but Plasma has better refresh/response? Do plasmas still put out gigawatts of heat and have low life spans?


Thanks in advance for any suggestions, even just some helpful pointers will be greatly appreciated.

[cptwhite_uk]

Check out this Samsung:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...s=home-theater


42" = £390
46" = £500


No smart TV features
No 3D
High quality panel
Freeview HD
Slim Design
USB port - directly play content from USB drive, movies and pictures - This feature supports file such as MPEG, WMV, AVI, MKV, MP4, H.264 MOV

[Saracen]

Re: a "good warranty", John Lewis sets come with 5-year as standard. And by JL sets, I mean what they sell, not their own brand because as dar as I know they don't sell their own brand of TV, so our current Samsung, for instance, has a 5-yr warranty from John Lewis that would have cost about £160 (for the extension from standard 1 yr to 5 year) from, erm, some other high street outlets.


So it's not just what you buy to factor in, but where you buy it. And JL, of course, price-match against similar outlets, though not online box-shifters.

[DanceswithUnix]

I have been looking at the LG panels.

You don't have to use the Smart features. I certainly never do on my current Samsung, far too slow (and out of date as you say).
I like the tiny "cinema screen" bezel.
Not that bothered about 3D, but the ability to run 2 players full screen sounds brilliant for Mario Kart (One player has glasses with 2 left lenses, the other with two right lenses).

http://www.ebuyer.com/495006-lg-47la...ed-tv-47la620v

Edit to add: I get the impression that for top notch image quality you just have to empty out your wallet and pay for it. I haven't found any bargains in that respect, but most seem OK.

[virtuo]

Thanks all for the responses. The Samsung seems ideal for me, decent performance and no frills. The limited number of HDMI inputs is a worry, but they'll be going through my amp anyway, so that gives me 3-4 instead of 2. I had a look at similar models in the same range (mainly looking for larger screen sizes) and there's scope for going a bit bigger at a reasonable price as well.

Those LG screens do look very nice, especially with that bezel. Going to have to try and have a look at the options in the flesh.

Good pointer re: John Lewis warranties. I'm in Wales and I haven't ever seen a John Lewis here (I think there's 1, somewhere), but I think there's a store about an hours drive away in England, so could get to them if they have the model I choose.


I've seen some screens boasting high refresh rates 200-600 Hz - what benefit will these have? My workstation runs at 60Hz (as do consoles iirc), so as long as the source frame rate stay below 60 (and they will for TV/movies/console games), will I notice a difference? I seem to recall reading that screens will try and interpolate the frames to make movement look smoother, but this just sounds like adding detail where it shouldn't exist.

[Saracen]

....

I'm in Wales and I haven't ever seen a John Lewis here (I think there's 1, somewhere), but I think there's a store about an hours drive away in England, so could get to them if they have the model I choose.

.....

On JL in Wales, the only one is in Cardiff. Opened 2009, according to the blurb, and is "the largest department store in Wales", apparently.

But .... do you need to visit, be it Cardiff or cross-border?

You can, of course, order online, for delivery. There is also a facility, often available though I don't know about TVs, to have it delivered to a Waitrose store if you're near one, and you can collect. And I think there's some scheme for them delivering and you collecting from a selection of other non-JL stores, though IIRC there's a charge for that. The idea, of course, of these "deliver to local store for you to collect" schemes is that you don't have to take time off work to wait for a courier.

And just to be clear, I don't work for JL in any form, though I did do some twice-removed sub-contract work for Waitrose about 5 years ago. Nor do I have shares, relatives who (still) work for them, or any other financial or non-financial link. I'm just a very happy customer, that bought his last two TVs there, the latter being a Samsung, about a fortnight ago.

.... I've seen some screens boasting high refresh rates 200-600 Hz - what benefit will these have? .....

I asked that exact question a couple of weeks ago, comparing two sets, one with 100hz, one 400hz.

The answer was that, at least in theory, less possible blurring in very fast-moving scenes, like a camera pan in a football match, maybe action movies and, I guess, perhaps computer games.

Between the two models I was comparing, both Samsung, the differences appeared to be :-

Model A :

- 100hz
- 2D only
- one less HDMI and one less USB port
- about £300 less

Model B :

- 400hz
- 2D and 3D, inc 2 pairs of glasses
- one more HDMI and USB port (four of each, rather than 3 on A)
- about £300 more.

I thought model B had marginally better image quality, but the wife thought the cheaper model A was marginally better. We both agreed that, first, it was a VERY small difference, at least to our eyes, and second, we wouldn't be doing a side-by-side comparison at home, and we could barely tell the difference when we were comparing side by side.

So .... as neither of us would pay 50p more for 3D, and we weren't bothered about the extra connector, it came down to more or less £300 for 400hz versus 100hz. I would gladly pay that, IF it made any justifiable difference to OUR viewing of the set. After testing, it didn't.

So we decided that, FOR US, it's like having 24MP in a DSLR versus 18MP. That is, it might be important to some people, but makes naff all difference to us, and is just using tech-spec numbers for marketing purposes, like the dot count in inkjet printers, and once you get past a certain point, you can't tell the difference. And we can't between 100hz and 400hz. Of course, maybe you can, and the only way to know for sure is for YOU to do that side-by-side check yourself.

IMHO, the higher frequencies don't make any difference, but I can only vouch for me and the Mrs.

YMMV.

[DanceswithUnix]

IMHO, the higher frequencies don't make any difference, but I can only vouch for me and the Mrs.
YMMV.

I think that is why you really need to go have a look at these things.

Cheap panels are normally 50Hz, and I find the image quality is noticeably worse at that point. The colour balance set for in-store lighting is usually so extreme that it is hard to really tell though.

Is there a Richer Sounds near you? My parents bought from John Lewis for the warranty, and frankly if they had walked down the road to Richer Sounds I think they would have get a better TV thanks to a wider selection and saved enough money they could have bought the extra protection. The advice would have been better too.

[virtuo]

Don't think there is a single Richer Sounds in Wales..! I'm in the North so it'll probably be best for me to go to Chester where there is both a RS and a JL. I'm armed with a pretty good shortlist now and know what to tell them I'm after feature-wise. Might go and do some in-store investigations next weekend

[Saracen]

I think that is why you really need to go have a look at these things.

....

Agreed.

....

Is there a Richer Sounds near you? ....

I have only one experience of Richer Sounds warranty, and in that, I felt they went well above and beyond what they were obliged to. I'd certainly use them again.

..... The colour balance set for in-store lighting is usually so extreme that it is hard to really tell though.
....

Good point. Any comparison requires checking that first. I did, In JL, and both the sets I was comparing were set to default, before I checked. But yes, in store it's always worth checking, partly because a devious store could use that to edge buyers in one direction, and partly because customers fiddling with remotes could have 'tweaked' settings.

....

The advice would have been better too.

Not so sure about that. Richer is more of an specialist than JL but JL staff tend to be staff for long periods. In many cases, much of their working life. I know of staff that have been in a department for 20 years or more.

On the other hand, Richer seem to have staff that, while they may be younger, often seem to be there because they are enthusiasts. You stand a decent chance of getting decent advice in both. Which is more than I can say for some stores where you MIGHT get someone that knows their stuff, but also where the bullpoop ratio is, in my experience, FAR higher. In PC World, for example, I have experienced the young enthusiast that knows his stuff and gives good advice, but I've also been treated to some of the most outrageous examples of utter cobblers I've ever heard, and which contained a higher fiction content than Lord of the Rings.

For most shops, I use the method of asking a few questions that I know the answers to, before risking ones I don't. If I get fed a line of drivel, I'll find a different assistant, or different shop.

[DanceswithUnix]

For most shops, I use the method of asking a few questions that I know the answers to, before risking ones I don't. If I get fed a line of drivel, I'll find a different assistant, or different shop.

Lol, nice one.

I find none of them are experts, but found Richer Sounds very helpful.

In the case of my parent's purchase, I told them to buy a specific Samsung TV that was an excellent match for their needs and in stock at JL. They waited a few months, and then instead of asking me again they went in (the Samsung was of course not around any more) and the salesman sold them a Sony which he said was the same spec. It wasn't even close apart from panel size, but it was more expensive. Ho hum.

[Saracen]

Lol, nice one.

I find none of them are experts, but found Richer Sounds very helpful.

In the case of my parent's purchase, I told them to buy a specific Samsung TV that was an excellent match for their needs and in stock at JL. They waited a few months, and then instead of asking me again they went in (the Samsung was of course not around any more) and the salesman sold them a Sony which he said was the same spec. It wasn't even close apart from panel size, but it was more expensive. Ho hum.

Disappointing, especially for JL. My experience, though not necessarily in TVs, is that they're better than that. Usually. For example, I recently bought (as readers of that thread will know) a rather expensive kitchen blender. The sales assistant I asked for help pointed out that, a) she'll help if she can, but b), it's not a product she knows well, and the person that does "isn't in today (Sunsay) "


And THAT is what I expect. Help where they can, and admit it when they don't know. Sounds like your parents were not well-served. And my experience is that that's not the rule with JL, though clearly, not everyone is perfect.

[peterb]

I bought an LG from Richer Sounds last year and found them very helpful. The only slight gripe was that I was suckered into paying well over the odds for an HDMI cable (but then I did want to get it all set IMMEDIATELY!)

So don't by cables and pre-packaged accessories there, but they gave a reasonable discount on the bundle I bought.

[KeyboardDemon]

Once you have got your TV you will most likely want to calibrate it in order to get the best viewing experience, it is possible to do this quite cheaply rather than spend a small fortune on a spectrophotometer and optimisation hardware. I have just ordered this Blu-Ray disk but I don't have a Blu-Ray player at the moment so need one of these before I can calibrate my TVs and monitors, check out the tekzilla review in the link.

oh... the title is actually not region locked so it will work anywhere.

[virtuo]

Thanks again all for the suggestions. I've been doing my research and have got a "final" short list. Some emergency car repairs have hampered my budget a little.

I felt quite determined to get a Plasma for the picture quality and black levels (I have a cold house so their heat output is also a positive for me), but after filtering through reviews, the newer LED/LCD sets are getting very close. Plasmas also seem to be getting out-of-stock at the screen sizes I want, not helped with Panasonic pulling out of the market.


So here's my shortlist - will be ordering next weekend to coincide with a week off work (for delivery and playing). I haven't linked to reviews as I think some of the sites might be "competition", but they are easy enough to find:

Panasonic TXL50E6B
50" LED, no 3D £800
http://www.richersounds.com/product/.../pana-txl50e6b

Some very good reviews, slightly high response rate of around 48ms but since I don't really "do" FPS gaming on consoles, should be fine. Probably my first choice of the 3.


SONY BRAVIA KDL50W656
50" LED, no 3D £750
http://www.richersounds.com/product/...sony-kdl50w656

More good reviews, good response times



Samsung PS51F5500
51" Plasma, 3D £670
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...s=home-theater

Not seen many reviews for this, but overall seem positive. Only issue being it's not very bright, so only really good in dark environments. My room is fairly light, but the TV will be going in a bay window so nothing will shine directly at it.. It's a plasma so picture should be excellent, and I could stretch to a 60" for £930.


I was also looking at the Panasonic TX-P50ST50B 50" Plasma - all the reviews seemed to conclude that the GT and even the VT were better, but those tip the price scales a little too much.



Don't think I'd be going far wrong with any of these, right?

[Dooms]

Got one of these LG 50" Plasma's off Amazon for £380 2 weeks ago.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Loving it so far and like you don't care about Smart or 3D - Got Consoles/Chromecast/Pi for all that jazz.

Its currently back up at £500 but I've seen it drop down twice in the last month.

[DanceswithUnix]

I went for the LG 47" Smart 3D LCD 47A620V model.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-47LA620V-.../dp/B00BS55N9Y

It was the same price in Currys if you reserve online, so I went and picked one up from the store.

Delighted with it, the smart features area actually rather good so I am using that for Netflix/iPlayer etc and not having to fire up the PS3 like I used to. 3D has been more fun than I was expecting too.