Some help required from the more knowledgeable please

[Chewypuppy]

Hi everyone.

I'm looking to surprise my boyfriend with a new p.c as he's had a tough year and deserves something good and he's always raved about Scan so here I am.

I have been doing a lot of research as I know next to nothing about pc's and have settled on the '3XS P67 Performance GTK - Sandy Bridge - New January 2011'

I would want the 2600k processor, 4gb ram, 2x Samsung F3, Coolermaster 690 II Lite case, the EVGA GTX 560Ti and the extreme audio soundcard.

He's primarily a gamer and the monitor (just recently bought from Scan) has a resolution of 1920x1080, I think. It's the LG 2380 LED Tv.

However, I have some questions and if anybody would be kind enough to answer them that would be greatly appreciated.

Is the build I've specified, ok? Or could it be improved for around the same money. I have a budget of £1250-£1300

I have read Lee's most recent update regarding Scan deciding to keep selling Sandy Bridge motherboards but does this include full pc's as well?

If so, the hard drives selected would run off the sata 3gb/s thingys I believe but if I upgraded to a 6gb/s hard drive would I still get the motherboard replacement even though the affected area isn't being used?

Would the setup I've specified allow him to play all his games at the resolution quoted? He doesn't play what I would call shooty games on his pc, he uses his xbox for that but he does play games like Supreme commander. But I believe I'm prudent in building a little bit of overkill into the system should he decide to move onto other games.

I also really want to add the Edimax wireless pci-e thingy (sorry) but I've been told I can't do that as I've specified a soundcard. Is this correct?

Lastly, the case selected has received some rave reviews hence selecting it but as I understand it upto 5x 140mm fans can be added but the configurator only allows 120mm fans. Could this be done? Could an 80mm fan also be added in the pre-cut area behind the processor socket because as I understand it this area gets rather hot when the processor has been overclocked.

I really don't have any idea what I'm talking about do I.

Sorry for the long post, but I just want to get this exactly right.

Thank you for any help offered.

[Taiko]

All i can say is ,i wish i had a girlfriend like you

[MSIC]

I have been doing a lot of research as I know next to nothing about pc's and have settled on the '3XS P67 Performance GTK - Sandy Bridge - New January 2011'

First of all, Scan are indeed a very good company to buy from, especially the warranties they can give (although consider exactly what level you might want).
That particular choice is a very strong, and very modern machine that will last a long time and do everything that a current games player might want.
That said, there are other options that can do a similar job but with different characteristics; for example, some people want to emphasise getting a very quiet machine, whilst others might want something very small, or with a very stylish exterior design. Others again really enjoy being able to tinker with & upgrade the internals from time to time.
The 'design' aspect can be very personal however, so i can only tell you what I would chose.

I am a big fan of getting small and quiet systems, hence love the look of this one:
3XS H67 Nanu Gamer.
At just under a £1000, it's basic configuration does come with a lower spec than yours, but equally can be upgraded.
As a general principle, larger cases are better able to cope with physically larger internal components (naturally) and are easier to install things into (bigger space, human fingers have to be able to move) however by getting Scan to make it, that's not your concern!!
The other potential benefit of a larger case is that it's generally better able to overclock components such as the CPU, the graphics card, even the RAM (assuming you have components that allow this sort of thing). Again, your original machine does allow this, my suggestion is much more limited, however even standard settings are very, very fast (and consume much, much less electrical power).
All in all, no right or wrong, just personal preferences.

I would want the 2600k processor, 4gb ram, 2x Samsung F3, Coolermaster 690 II Lite case, the EVGA GTX 560Ti and the extreme audio soundcard.

All good, however for your overall budget i'd want 8GB RAM really, although more for future proofing than today's gaming needs. Even at the expense of the extra audio card, as on-board audio (present on all modern motherboards) are generally a good standard these days...
Once upon a time audio card companies tried to emphasise how they helped the gaming process itself (by saving the CPU having to calculate audio in addition to the rest of the game) however it's just not an issue these days. There is however some remaining (small) merit in saying that an external audio card provides a little better audio fidelity.

He's primarily a gamer and the monitor (just recently bought from Scan) has a resolution of 1920x1080, I think. It's the LG 2380 LED Tv.

That's a perfectly fine modern monitor, providing modern gaming resolutions.
The components of pretty much any modern gaming system that Scan would sell are appropriate for this monitor.

I have read Lee's most recent update regarding Scan deciding to keep selling Sandy Bridge motherboards but does this include full pc's as well?

Definitely worth talking to Scan (call them, they are helpful on the phone), and I would expect that given their warranty system, and that this is a very well known issue now, they will happily swap & support you so that you have a great system both on immediate delivery, and then still once new components are available in the next few weeks (or else just wait for a few weeks, and they will already have the new replacement motherboard to save it having to be swapped).

If so, the hard drives selected would run off the sata 3gb/s thingys I believe but if I upgraded to a 6gb/s hard drive would I still get the motherboard replacement even though the affected area isn't being used?

There will be 2 SATA slots (which connect to the SATA cables, which then connect to SATA devices such as the hard drives and the DVD drive) which are simply not affected by this problem and can be used without concern. These (as I understand it) are the 6 Gbps connectors, and Scan will now to use them when they build the system. However if you specify 3 SATA devices (a DVD drive and 2 Hard Drives) then I believe that Scan would then have to use one of the 3 Gbps SATA connectors, which will be affected by the Intel issue some years down the line. (But Scan, as I understand it, will solve the concern way before then)

Would the setup I've specified allow him to play all his games at the resolution quoted? He doesn't play what I would call shooty games on his pc, he uses his xbox for that but he does play games like Supreme commander. But I believe I'm prudent in building a little bit of overkill into the system should he decide to move onto other games.

It's a great system!

[Chewypuppy]

Hi MSIC, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to reply in the manner you did. It's very much appreciated.

I did look at the system you linked but after doing some research on the case there's a general consensus that it's not that good at cooling the components and as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) lower temperatures promote longer life in the components. A smaller case would be preferable actually due to limited room and a new puppy that chews everything in sight (hence the username) because it could go on a shelf out of her reach. Ideally I could get the spec quoted built into a media case but the larger ones tend to be rather expensive and don't have much room for the full-size processor heatsinks.

Nice to hear about the soundcard. With that removed I could probably stretch to a GTX 570 or some more storage.

Due to the hours I'm working for the next month I'm unable to ring Scan directly hence asking on here regarding the build, specifically the Sandy Bridge motherboard and swapout of said. I would like to get this purchased within the next two weeks if at all possible.

[MSIC]

Well I'm not wanting to coerce you into buying something that you don't want, but the smaller scan option cools things enough, but just without the additional headroom required from the heat generated by overclocking. But as it is sold it's a great system. To be clear, Scan won't sell you a system that isn't stable or good enough for the job, so you can safely and simply chose the one that appeals.

Can anyone else help re: the motherboard swapping issue?

[MSIC]

Well I'm not wanting to coerce you into buying something that you don't want, but the smaller scan option cools things enough, but just without the additional headroom required from the heat generated by overclocking. But as it is sold it's a great system. To be clear, Scan won't sell you a system that isn't stable or good enough for the job, so you can safely and simply chose the one that appeals.

Can anyone else help re: the motherboard swapping issue?

[Chewypuppy]

Thanks for the reply once again MSIC.

I've had a bit of a development actually. I have been speaking to my brother who says he knows, and I quote, "Just enough about pc's to be dangerous" and he's said from his point of view why run the risk with Sandy Bridge. For him it's a case of once bitten twice shy. His concern, and it would pray on his mind, is that there's already been one issue with this chipset so why not another. So he's suggested I go for the "Tried and tested" I7 X58 950.

He's said that for single threads and multi threads there isn't much difference between the two at stock speeds and the improvement in the Sandy Bridge processor scores can be put down, mostly, to the increase running speed of the processors. he's said they're just better overclockers.

So he's suggesting going for the 950 at 4ghz, for around the same money for the same spec'd build from Scan. Granted I would lose some performance gains over the 4.5ghz overclock of the SB processor but as my boyfriend is coming from a Q6600/8800gt build I still think he'll be happy.

I think.....

Anyway, talking about the build. Had a development there. My brother wants to put in with me for the pc to make it a present from us both. So I have more budget to play around with now

Let me know what you think about this if you wouldn't mind. I do appreciate all your help.

Case: Coolermaster CM 690 II Advanced Black Mid Tower Case
Motherboard X58: Asus Sabertooth TUF - Cerm!x Heatsinks - USB3 & SATA6 Support!
CPU: Intel i7 950 Quad Core 3.06Ghz 4.8GT s QPI 8Mb Cache
CPU Coolers: Prolimatech Megahalems Super 6 Heatpipe Tower Cooler
Overclocking: Your choice of Intel Core i7 professionally overclocked by our 3XS engineers to 3.8-4Ghz!
Memory - Selecting 12Gb of memory may limit Overclock!: 6GB (3x2GB) Corsair XMS3 DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600) CAS 9
NVIDIA Graphics - Multi GPU SLI Options Available: 1536MB EVGA GTX 580 772Mhz GPU 512 Cores 4008MHz GDDR5
ATI Graphics - Multi GPU Crossfire Options Available: *No ATI VGA Card Required* (NVIDIA Required)
Power Supply Unit: 750W Corsair CMPSU-750TX - (Dual Graphic Cards 470 5850)
System Drives 3GB s: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 7200rpm 32MB Cache, 2 selected
System Drives 6GB s: 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black SATA 6Gb s 64MB Cache
Solid State Drives: 128GB Crucial RealSSD C300 6GB s Read 355MB s Write 140MB s
Storage Hard drives: *Storage Hard Drive Not Required*
Optical Drive 1 - DVD Blu Ray: LG CH10LS20 - 8x Blu-Ray Reader & DVDRW
Optical Drive 2 - DVD Blu Ray: *DVD Writer Not Required*
Sound Card: *Sound Card Not Required Use On Board Sound*
Gaming Network Card: *Use On Board Network Port*
Internal External (USB) Wireless Adaptors: Edimax 300Mbps Wireless 802.11 b g n PCI-E Adapter

Oh, and regarding the case selection. It doesn't really matter what case I get now as my brother has just suggested getting a dog gate for the doorway. So that's sorted at least.

[MSIC]

Ok, well it's clearly a hugely powerful system that you have specified their. I have to wonder though if spending more money on such a system is really appropriate (not trying to judge, it's your money) but once you get to this sort of level there is a law of diminishing returns...
I can see the logic though in avoiding Sandy Bridge right now, I think it's a tough call.

All that said, if you are set on buying the best that is currently available, then I can't fault it. A very powerful system.
I would possibly argue against needing 3 x 1tb drives, and instead go with a single 3tb drive, given that your OS is on the SSD.

[Chewypuppy]

Now I'm worried Have I gone overboard?

I understand regarding dimishing returns, so I think I'd be better going for the GTX 570 wouldn't I as it's much better value for money considering the performance gains of a GTX 580 compared with the extra cost. I just don't want him to have to compromise on his quality settings in his games when playing at the resolution of the screen. Because the eye candy resident within them should be seen. Would a 570 fit the bill?

Regarding the drives. As I understand it he can use the SSD as the boot drive and the WD 6gb/s for installing games and the 2 Samsung's as storage drives, which I would ask Scan to raid in number 1.

Does this setup sound ok?

I can't give thanks to your posts anywhere or am I missing a button?

[MSIC]

If you have the option to 'thank', it's the forth button bottom right in a post
And for someone who began by claiming she knows little about PCs you can certainly justify yourself well- the separate drives issue is certainly an option, given what you've said.
As for the graphics card, a 570 is already more than sufficient, yes.
To be honest, the level of graphics cards that you can afford only really start to flex their muscles with 2 or even 3 monitors at the same time, so you have -plenty- of breathing room.
I still think that the whole system is a little bit much, but then I've never had the budget to go for the very best. If you really can afford it, and he really deserves it, then buy it!

[Chewypuppy]

No, sorry. I don't have the option to thank (sulk) but please know I am very grateful. The internet is filled with brave little tough guys on the end of a keyboard but very rarely have I encountered a gem such as yourself. Genuinely, thank you.

It's amazing what a little, or a lot!, of reading can do. Every single component I've looked at I've then Google'd with 'reviews' typed next to it. This has led me onto all sorts of tangents about benchmark scores and real-world prowess etc. It's amazing the amount of info that's out there if people would only take the time to go and research it. But there's also no harm in asking those more experienced for an opinion. I started off thinking it was just a box that played games, now I find myself knowing a whole lot more, granted it's all theory, but we all start somewhere.

I'm even considering upgrading the internet speed and getting a NAS enclosure, along with a wireless printer. Go me!

He is definately worth it, he says the sun rises and sets with me. He's had a horrible year that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy but he's always had a smile for me when I've had a hard day. So I want to show my appreciation, and I'd like to buy presents that the person receiving them wants, not what I would like to get them.

So that's it then. Thanks very much again MSIC, your attention should be commended with more than a simple thank you. But thank you so very much anyway.

I'll just pass it by my brother and we'll get it ordered. He can ring Scan tomorrow when I'm at work.

[MSIC]

Well you are welcome, and im just happy to help.

I'm even considering upgrading the internet speed and getting a NAS enclosure, along with a wireless printer. Go me!

Certainly some options for once you have bought the PC, as they are all seperate. And by 'upgrading the internet speed', I interpret it to mean a faster / better quality conection via your Internet Service Provider.
There are 2 important factors to know about chosing one - consistency of delivery of service (ie do they 'traffic shape' to limit your servive at particular times of the day to suit them), and 'capping' (setting a limit on the amount you can use in a given month). Its become common practice for many ISPs to state 'unlimitted data' because it looks good for their potential new customers, however most will then have "(fair use)" or similar in small lettering, which means that firstly its not unlimited, and secondly since they dont say what that fair use is, the customer is at the mercy of the large (sometimes multinational) organising being fair themselves
Fortunately there is one very simple solution. Ask around here for opinions, then read http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ , and after that do what i did - subscribe to "Be".

After all that, you could even treat your significant other to a new router (the ISP will provide one, but its cheap and basic) - wont improve the speeds, but a good router can do wonders for features and control. Post back here as and when needed.

Enjoy!

Edit: One more thought. You said earlier about buying 2 x 1TB drives for inside the PC, which you would RAID (in RAID 1 mirroring) for data security - not a bad idea. However if you are considering a NAS, this would do much of this. I have a NAS (if you have far too much time you can follow the link in my signature to read my discoveries and exploits), and again can give some advice, ideas and principles.

Also, and i'm surprised that i've not thought of mentioning this before now, but what ideas do you have for 3 very important 'peripherals' - mouse, keyboard and speakers? For your budget, i'd be looking to complement such a strong main PC with at least good quality peripherals since they are the main way of interacting with the PC.
Some ideas:
Speakers (I have these) Creative Gigaworks T40 series II (review here) £83.
Mouse: A tough call. Have a browse here.
Keyboard: I am delighted with my own choice (again - but i do my research!). Logitech illuminated. It's less 'flashy' and more 'classy / understated', and i love it. Very quiet too. £61.

[Chewypuppy]

Well you are welcome, and im just happy to help.


Certainly some options for once you have bought the PC, as they are all seperate. And by 'upgrading the internet speed', I interpret it to mean a faster / better quality conection via your Internet Service Provider.
There are 2 important factors to know about chosing one - consistency of delivery of service (ie do they 'traffic shape' to limit your servive at particular times of the day to suit them), and 'capping' (setting a limit on the amount you can use in a given month). Its become common practice for many ISPs to state 'unlimitted data' because it looks good for their potential new customers, however most will then have "(fair use)" or similar in small lettering, which means that firstly its not unlimited, and secondly since they dont say what that fair use is, the customer is at the mercy of the large (sometimes multinational) organising being fair themselves
Fortunately there is one very simple solution. Ask around here for opinions, then read http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ , and after that do what i did - subscribe to "Be".

After all that, you could even treat your significant other to a new router (the ISP will provide one, but its cheap and basic) - wont improve the speeds, but a good router can do wonders for features and control. Post back here as and when needed.

Enjoy!

Edit: One more thought. You said earlier about buying 2 x 1TB drives for inside the PC, which you would RAID (in RAID 1 mirroring) for data security - not a bad idea. However if you are considering a NAS, this would do much of this. I have a NAS (if you have far too much time you can follow the link in my signature to read my discoveries and exploits), and again can give some advice, ideas and principles.

Also, and i'm surprised that i've not thought of mentioning this before now, but what ideas do you have for 3 very important 'peripherals' - mouse, keyboard and speakers? For your budget, i'd be looking to complement such a strong main PC with at least good quality peripherals since they are the main way of interacting with the PC.
Some ideas:
Speakers (I have these) Creative Gigaworks T40 series II (review here) £83.
Mouse: A tough call. Have a browse here.
Keyboard: I am delighted with my own choice (again - but i do my research!). Logitech illuminated. It's less 'flashy' and more 'classy / understated', and i love it. Very quiet too. £61.

Hi MSIC, regarding the internet, yup, I was referring to the speed. As it happens I've rang Virgin tonight and arranged for the upgrade from 20 m/bit to 50 m/bit, all for the extra cost of £11 month. This is primarily for the upload bandwidth as he's a gamer on Xbox live mostly and Virgin are currently upgrading their services nationwide for customers. We've just been upgraded in our area. 50mb users now are seeing 5-6m/bit upload opposed to the 2m/bit they had before. Our upload on our current connection has gone from 95 kb/s to 220 kb/s.

I'm staying with Virgin because the service hasn't failed yet, and we've not seen any cap at all. Plus the ping to the nearest server is only 12ms, there's zero jitter and zero packet loss. But I'm also upgrading because we've just set the router up that came from Virgin and we find ourselves using the laptops more and more for surfing. Plus getting the NAS and Wifi printer will add to the load.

The router that came from Virgin seems to be ok, we've password'ed it. Neither of us has any idea about all this assiging I.P addresses and apparantly a router's inbuilt firewall can cause lag on xbox live. Something my boyfriend will not live with! I don't know, the router end of it scares me.

I take your point about the NAS...hmmm. I'm thinking now about just adding 1 storage drive internally, one of the 2gb Green's.

I'm also having third and fourth thoughts about the Sandy Bridge v I7 950. I feel like I'm out buying shoes! I never make my mind up then, either.

He has a Mamba mouse and a G something or other keyboard. It has a colour screen on it. I don't know what it is but he seems happy with it.

Thanks again for your thoughts MSIC. Mwa!

[MSIC]

Ok, well it sounds like you are really all set up and ready to go. Go with a Core i7, it's a very strong chip, but be aware that since we began our conversing Intel have reduced the prices of a good number of Intel i7 chips, which will very shortly cascade through to retailers, so you could be saving a couple of hundred pounds compared to last week.
Other than that, it sounds like all of your work, research and effort are done. I agree that in your situation you are clearly happy with the Virgin service, which should continue to improve, and also that changing your router is probably not advisable right now.

Come back at any point in the future, i'm keen to hear what happens when the new PC is delivered!

[Chewypuppy]

MSIC, thank you very much. Above and beyond.

we were going to order today but after reading your last post we're going to hang on and see if the price drops on the I7.

If we can save on the processor we can add that money elsewhere in the build. Or just save it for me! haha.

We're both still messing with the specification actually. We're not known for agreeing, my brother and I.

[Chewypuppy]

Just an update MSIC (and for anybody else reading the thread).

Had the 50mb upgrade installed. Now got a gloss-black upright box thing with the Virgin logo backlit in neon blue. Rather swish!

We now have 47.6 m/bit download and 4.34 m/bit upload. We started with a packet loss of 93% though and had to log in to the box and disable the 'flood protection'. That took over an hour of researching but it's sorted now as packet loss is now 0% and jitter has gone down from 25ms to 1ms.

We've decided to wait for the new Sandy Bridge builds simply because he won't want to send it back to get the motherboard replaced, and we want to see how the new chipset does before ordering. but waiting is more beneficial from a budget point of view anyway as I'll have even more money in 10 days. Although, your mention of I7's coming down in price has come true. The 6 core 970 is looking affordable now. I realise you can't really quantify 'future proof' but I feel it's much easier replacing a (or adding a second) graphics card than it is a processor.

So if Sandy Bridge isn't all that after the chipset resolution then this is looking nicely affordable now:

Case: Corsair 600T Graphite Series Black Mid Tower Gaming Case
Motherboard X58: Asus Sabertooth TUF - Cerm!x Heatsinks - USB3 & SATA6 Support!
CPU: Intel i7 970 Hex Core 3.2GHz 6.4GT s QPI 12Mb Cache
CPU Coolers: Corsair Cooling H70 Hydro Performance - Not suitable for Silverstone TJ07
Overclocking: Your choice of an Intel i7 professionally overclocked by our 3XS engineers to 4Ghz
Memory - Selecting 12Gb of memory may limit Overclock!: 6GB (3x2GB) Corsair XMS3 DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600) CAS 9
NVIDIA Graphics - Multi GPU SLI Options Available: 1280Mb EVGA GTX 570 732Mhz GPU 480 Cores 3800Mhz GDDR5
ATI Graphics - Multi GPU Crossfire Options Available: *No ATI VGA Card Required* (NVIDIA Required)
Power Supply Unit: 650W Corsair HX Series Modular PSU (Single Graphics Card)
System Drives 3GB s: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 7200rpm 32MB Cache, 2 selected
System Drives 6GB s: *Sata 6GB s Hard Drive Not Required*
Solid State Drives: *Solid State Drive Not Required*
Storage Hard drives: *Storage Hard Drive Not Required*
Optical Drive 1 - DVD Blu Ray: Pioneer DVR-S19LBK DVD Writer
Optical Drive 2 - DVD Blu Ray: *DVD Writer Not Required*
Floppy Drive Flash Card Readers & Writers: Scan AK-ICR10 Multi Card Reader with 2.5" Sata Support
Sound Card: *Sound Card Not Required Use On Board Sound*
Gaming Network Card: *Use On Board Network Port*
Internal External (USB) Wireless Adaptors: Edimax 300Mbps Wireless 802.11 b g n PCI-E Adapter
Case Cooling Fans: *After Market Fans Not Required - Use Fans Included with Case*
Lighting Effects: *Lighting Effects Not Required*
Operating system: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit - OEM