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Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Hi everyone.
I'm looking to surprise my boyfriend with a new p.c as he's had a tough year and deserves something good and he's always raved about Scan so here I am.:help:
I have been doing a lot of research as I know next to nothing about pc's and have settled on the '3XS P67 Performance GTK - Sandy Bridge - New January 2011'
I would want the 2600k processor, 4gb ram, 2x Samsung F3, Coolermaster 690 II Lite case, the EVGA GTX 560Ti and the extreme audio soundcard.
He's primarily a gamer and the monitor (just recently bought from Scan) has a resolution of 1920x1080, I think. It's the LG 2380 LED Tv.
However, I have some questions and if anybody would be kind enough to answer them that would be greatly appreciated.
Is the build I've specified, ok? Or could it be improved for around the same money. I have a budget of £1250-£1300
I have read Lee's most recent update regarding Scan deciding to keep selling Sandy Bridge motherboards but does this include full pc's as well?
If so, the hard drives selected would run off the sata 3gb/s thingys I believe but if I upgraded to a 6gb/s hard drive would I still get the motherboard replacement even though the affected area isn't being used?
Would the setup I've specified allow him to play all his games at the resolution quoted? He doesn't play what I would call shooty games on his pc, he uses his xbox for that but he does play games like Supreme commander. But I believe I'm prudent in building a little bit of overkill into the system should he decide to move onto other games.
I also really want to add the Edimax wireless pci-e thingy (sorry) but I've been told I can't do that as I've specified a soundcard. Is this correct?
Lastly, the case selected has received some rave reviews hence selecting it but as I understand it upto 5x 140mm fans can be added but the configurator only allows 120mm fans. Could this be done? Could an 80mm fan also be added in the pre-cut area behind the processor socket because as I understand it this area gets rather hot when the processor has been overclocked.
I really don't have any idea what I'm talking about do I.:stupid:
Sorry for the long post, but I just want to get this exactly right.:)
Thank you for any help offered.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
All i can say is ,i wish i had a girlfriend like you :)
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
I have been doing a lot of research as I know next to nothing about pc's and have settled on the '3XS P67 Performance GTK - Sandy Bridge - New January 2011'
First of all, Scan are indeed a very good company to buy from, especially the warranties they can give (although consider exactly what level you might want).
That particular choice is a very strong, and very modern machine that will last a long time and do everything that a current games player might want.
That said, there are other options that can do a similar job but with different characteristics; for example, some people want to emphasise getting a very quiet machine, whilst others might want something very small, or with a very stylish exterior design. Others again really enjoy being able to tinker with & upgrade the internals from time to time.
The 'design' aspect can be very personal however, so i can only tell you what I would chose.
I am a big fan of getting small and quiet systems, hence love the look of this one:
3XS H67 Nanu Gamer.
At just under a £1000, it's basic configuration does come with a lower spec than yours, but equally can be upgraded.
As a general principle, larger cases are better able to cope with physically larger internal components (naturally) and are easier to install things into (bigger space, human fingers have to be able to move) however by getting Scan to make it, that's not your concern!! :mrgreen:
The other potential benefit of a larger case is that it's generally better able to overclock components such as the CPU, the graphics card, even the RAM (assuming you have components that allow this sort of thing). Again, your original machine does allow this, my suggestion is much more limited, however even standard settings are very, very fast (and consume much, much less electrical power).
All in all, no right or wrong, just personal preferences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
I would want the 2600k processor, 4gb ram, 2x Samsung F3, Coolermaster 690 II Lite case, the EVGA GTX 560Ti and the extreme audio soundcard.
All good, however for your overall budget i'd want 8GB RAM really, although more for future proofing than today's gaming needs. Even at the expense of the extra audio card, as on-board audio (present on all modern motherboards) are generally a good standard these days...
Once upon a time audio card companies tried to emphasise how they helped the gaming process itself (by saving the CPU having to calculate audio in addition to the rest of the game) however it's just not an issue these days. There is however some remaining (small) merit in saying that an external audio card provides a little better audio fidelity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
He's primarily a gamer and the monitor (just recently bought from Scan) has a resolution of 1920x1080, I think. It's the LG 2380 LED Tv.
That's a perfectly fine modern monitor, providing modern gaming resolutions.
The components of pretty much any modern gaming system that Scan would sell are appropriate for this monitor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
I have read Lee's most recent update regarding Scan deciding to keep selling Sandy Bridge motherboards but does this include full pc's as well?
Definitely worth talking to Scan (call them, they are helpful on the phone), and I would expect that given their warranty system, and that this is a very well known issue now, they will happily swap & support you so that you have a great system both on immediate delivery, and then still once new components are available in the next few weeks (or else just wait for a few weeks, and they will already have the new replacement motherboard to save it having to be swapped).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
If so, the hard drives selected would run off the sata 3gb/s thingys I believe but if I upgraded to a 6gb/s hard drive would I still get the motherboard replacement even though the affected area isn't being used?
There will be 2 SATA slots (which connect to the SATA cables, which then connect to SATA devices such as the hard drives and the DVD drive) which are simply not affected by this problem and can be used without concern. These (as I understand it) are the 6 Gbps connectors, and Scan will now to use them when they build the system. However if you specify 3 SATA devices (a DVD drive and 2 Hard Drives) then I believe that Scan would then have to use one of the 3 Gbps SATA connectors, which will be affected by the Intel issue some years down the line. (But Scan, as I understand it, will solve the concern way before then)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
Would the setup I've specified allow him to play all his games at the resolution quoted? He doesn't play what I would call shooty games on his pc, he uses his xbox for that but he does play games like Supreme commander. But I believe I'm prudent in building a little bit of overkill into the system should he decide to move onto other games.
It's a great system!
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Hi MSIC, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to reply in the manner you did. It's very much appreciated.
I did look at the system you linked but after doing some research on the case there's a general consensus that it's not that good at cooling the components and as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) lower temperatures promote longer life in the components. A smaller case would be preferable actually due to limited room and a new puppy that chews everything in sight (hence the username) because it could go on a shelf out of her reach. Ideally I could get the spec quoted built into a media case but the larger ones tend to be rather expensive and don't have much room for the full-size processor heatsinks.
Nice to hear about the soundcard. With that removed I could probably stretch to a GTX 570 or some more storage.
Due to the hours I'm working for the next month I'm unable to ring Scan directly hence asking on here regarding the build, specifically the Sandy Bridge motherboard and swapout of said. I would like to get this purchased within the next two weeks if at all possible.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Well I'm not wanting to coerce you into buying something that you don't want, but the smaller scan option cools things enough, but just without the additional headroom required from the heat generated by overclocking. But as it is sold it's a great system. To be clear, Scan won't sell you a system that isn't stable or good enough for the job, so you can safely and simply chose the one that appeals.
Can anyone else help re: the motherboard swapping issue?
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Well I'm not wanting to coerce you into buying something that you don't want, but the smaller scan option cools things enough, but just without the additional headroom required from the heat generated by overclocking. But as it is sold it's a great system. To be clear, Scan won't sell you a system that isn't stable or good enough for the job, so you can safely and simply chose the one that appeals.
Can anyone else help re: the motherboard swapping issue?
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Thanks for the reply once again MSIC.
I've had a bit of a development actually. I have been speaking to my brother who says he knows, and I quote, "Just enough about pc's to be dangerous" and he's said from his point of view why run the risk with Sandy Bridge. For him it's a case of once bitten twice shy. His concern, and it would pray on his mind, is that there's already been one issue with this chipset so why not another. So he's suggested I go for the "Tried and tested" I7 X58 950.
He's said that for single threads and multi threads there isn't much difference between the two at stock speeds and the improvement in the Sandy Bridge processor scores can be put down, mostly, to the increase running speed of the processors. he's said they're just better overclockers.
So he's suggesting going for the 950 at 4ghz, for around the same money for the same spec'd build from Scan. Granted I would lose some performance gains over the 4.5ghz overclock of the SB processor but as my boyfriend is coming from a Q6600/8800gt build I still think he'll be happy.
I think.....
Anyway, talking about the build. Had a development there. My brother wants to put in with me for the pc to make it a present from us both. So I have more budget to play around with now :clapping:
Let me know what you think about this if you wouldn't mind. I do appreciate all your help. :)
Case: Coolermaster CM 690 II Advanced Black Mid Tower Case
Motherboard X58: Asus Sabertooth TUF - Cerm!x Heatsinks - USB3 & SATA6 Support!
CPU: Intel i7 950 Quad Core 3.06Ghz 4.8GT s QPI 8Mb Cache
CPU Coolers: Prolimatech Megahalems Super 6 Heatpipe Tower Cooler
Overclocking: Your choice of Intel Core i7 professionally overclocked by our 3XS engineers to 3.8-4Ghz!
Memory - Selecting 12Gb of memory may limit Overclock!: 6GB (3x2GB) Corsair XMS3 DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600) CAS 9
NVIDIA Graphics - Multi GPU SLI Options Available: 1536MB EVGA GTX 580 772Mhz GPU 512 Cores 4008MHz GDDR5
ATI Graphics - Multi GPU Crossfire Options Available: *No ATI VGA Card Required* (NVIDIA Required)
Power Supply Unit: 750W Corsair CMPSU-750TX - (Dual Graphic Cards 470 5850)
System Drives 3GB s: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 7200rpm 32MB Cache, 2 selected
System Drives 6GB s: 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black SATA 6Gb s 64MB Cache
Solid State Drives: 128GB Crucial RealSSD C300 6GB s Read 355MB s Write 140MB s
Storage Hard drives: *Storage Hard Drive Not Required*
Optical Drive 1 - DVD Blu Ray: LG CH10LS20 - 8x Blu-Ray Reader & DVDRW
Optical Drive 2 - DVD Blu Ray: *DVD Writer Not Required*
Sound Card: *Sound Card Not Required Use On Board Sound*
Gaming Network Card: *Use On Board Network Port*
Internal External (USB) Wireless Adaptors: Edimax 300Mbps Wireless 802.11 b g n PCI-E Adapter
Oh, and regarding the case selection. It doesn't really matter what case I get now as my brother has just suggested getting a dog gate for the doorway. So that's sorted at least.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Ok, well it's clearly a hugely powerful system that you have specified their. I have to wonder though if spending more money on such a system is really appropriate (not trying to judge, it's your money) but once you get to this sort of level there is a law of diminishing returns...
I can see the logic though in avoiding Sandy Bridge right now, I think it's a tough call.
All that said, if you are set on buying the best that is currently available, then I can't fault it. A very powerful system.
I would possibly argue against needing 3 x 1tb drives, and instead go with a single 3tb drive, given that your OS is on the SSD.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Now I'm worried :o Have I gone overboard?
I understand regarding dimishing returns, so I think I'd be better going for the GTX 570 wouldn't I as it's much better value for money considering the performance gains of a GTX 580 compared with the extra cost. I just don't want him to have to compromise on his quality settings in his games when playing at the resolution of the screen. Because the eye candy resident within them should be seen. Would a 570 fit the bill?
Regarding the drives. As I understand it he can use the SSD as the boot drive and the WD 6gb/s for installing games and the 2 Samsung's as storage drives, which I would ask Scan to raid in number 1.
Does this setup sound ok?
I can't give thanks to your posts anywhere or am I missing a button?
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
If you have the option to 'thank', it's the forth button bottom right in a post ;)
And for someone who began by claiming she knows little about PCs you can certainly justify yourself well- the separate drives issue is certainly an option, given what you've said.
As for the graphics card, a 570 is already more than sufficient, yes.
To be honest, the level of graphics cards that you can afford only really start to flex their muscles with 2 or even 3 monitors at the same time, so you have -plenty- of breathing room.
I still think that the whole system is a little bit much, but then I've never had the budget to go for the very best. If you really can afford it, and he really deserves it, then buy it!
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
No, sorry. I don't have the option to thank (sulk) but please know I am very grateful. The internet is filled with brave little tough guys on the end of a keyboard but very rarely have I encountered a gem such as yourself. Genuinely, thank you.
It's amazing what a little, or a lot!, of reading can do. Every single component I've looked at I've then Google'd with 'reviews' typed next to it. This has led me onto all sorts of tangents about benchmark scores and real-world prowess etc. It's amazing the amount of info that's out there if people would only take the time to go and research it. But there's also no harm in asking those more experienced for an opinion. I started off thinking it was just a box that played games, now I find myself knowing a whole lot more, granted it's all theory, but we all start somewhere.
I'm even considering upgrading the internet speed and getting a NAS enclosure, along with a wireless printer. Go me! :rolleyes:
He is definately worth it, he says the sun rises and sets with me. He's had a horrible year that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy but he's always had a smile for me when I've had a hard day. So I want to show my appreciation, and I'd like to buy presents that the person receiving them wants, not what I would like to get them.
So that's it then. Thanks very much again MSIC, your attention should be commended with more than a simple thank you. But thank you so very much anyway.
I'll just pass it by my brother and we'll get it ordered. He can ring Scan tomorrow when I'm at work.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Well you are welcome, and im just happy to help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
I'm even considering upgrading the internet speed and getting a NAS enclosure, along with a wireless printer. Go me! :rolleyes:
Certainly some options for once you have bought the PC, as they are all seperate. And by 'upgrading the internet speed', I interpret it to mean a faster / better quality conection via your Internet Service Provider.
There are 2 important factors to know about chosing one - consistency of delivery of service (ie do they 'traffic shape' to limit your servive at particular times of the day to suit them), and 'capping' (setting a limit on the amount you can use in a given month). Its become common practice for many ISPs to state 'unlimitted data' because it looks good for their potential new customers, however most will then have "(fair use)" or similar in small lettering, which means that firstly its not unlimited, and secondly since they dont say what that fair use is, the customer is at the mercy of the large (sometimes multinational) organising being fair themselves :help:
Fortunately there is one very simple solution. Ask around here for opinions, then read http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ , and after that do what i did - subscribe to "Be".
After all that, you could even treat your significant other to a new router (the ISP will provide one, but its cheap and basic) - wont improve the speeds, but a good router can do wonders for features and control. Post back here as and when needed.
Enjoy!
Edit: One more thought. You said earlier about buying 2 x 1TB drives for inside the PC, which you would RAID (in RAID 1 mirroring) for data security - not a bad idea. However if you are considering a NAS, this would do much of this. I have a NAS (if you have far too much time you can follow the link in my signature to read my discoveries and exploits), and again can give some advice, ideas and principles.
Also, and i'm surprised that i've not thought of mentioning this before now, but what ideas do you have for 3 very important 'peripherals' - mouse, keyboard and speakers? For your budget, i'd be looking to complement such a strong main PC with at least good quality peripherals since they are the main way of interacting with the PC.
Some ideas:
Speakers (I have these) Creative Gigaworks T40 series II (review here) £83.
Mouse: A tough call. Have a browse here.
Keyboard: I am delighted with my own choice (again - but i do my research!). Logitech illuminated. It's less 'flashy' and more 'classy / understated', and i love it. Very quiet too. £61.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MSIC
Well you are welcome, and im just happy to help.
Certainly some options for once you have bought the PC, as they are all seperate. And by 'upgrading the internet speed', I interpret it to mean a faster / better quality conection via your Internet Service Provider.
There are 2 important factors to know about chosing one - consistency of delivery of service (ie do they 'traffic shape' to limit your servive at particular times of the day to suit them), and 'capping' (setting a limit on the amount you can use in a given month). Its become common practice for many ISPs to state 'unlimitted data' because it looks good for their potential new customers, however most will then have "(fair use)" or similar in small lettering, which means that firstly its not unlimited, and secondly since they dont say what that fair use is, the customer is at the mercy of the large (sometimes multinational) organising being fair themselves :help:
Fortunately there is one very simple solution. Ask around here for opinions, then read
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ , and after that do what i did - subscribe to "
Be".
After all that, you could even treat your significant other to a new router (the ISP will provide one, but its cheap and basic) - wont improve the speeds, but a good router can do wonders for features and control. Post back here as and when needed.
Enjoy!
Edit: One more thought. You said earlier about buying 2 x 1TB drives for inside the PC, which you would RAID (in RAID 1 mirroring) for data security - not a bad idea. However if you are considering a NAS, this would do much of this. I have a NAS (if you have far too much time you can follow the link in my signature to read my discoveries and exploits), and again can give some advice, ideas and principles.
Also, and i'm surprised that i've not thought of mentioning this before now, but what ideas do you have for 3 very important 'peripherals' - mouse, keyboard and speakers? For your budget, i'd be looking to complement such a strong main PC with at least good quality peripherals since they are the main way of interacting with the PC.
Some ideas:
Speakers (I have these) Creative Gigaworks T40 series II (
review here)
£83.
Mouse: A tough call.
Have a browse here.
Keyboard: I am delighted with my own choice (again - but i do my research!).
Logitech illuminated. It's less 'flashy' and more 'classy / understated', and i love it. Very quiet too.
£61.
Hi MSIC, regarding the internet, yup, I was referring to the speed. As it happens I've rang Virgin tonight and arranged for the upgrade from 20 m/bit to 50 m/bit, all for the extra cost of £11 month. This is primarily for the upload bandwidth as he's a gamer on Xbox live mostly and Virgin are currently upgrading their services nationwide for customers. We've just been upgraded in our area. 50mb users now are seeing 5-6m/bit upload opposed to the 2m/bit they had before. Our upload on our current connection has gone from 95 kb/s to 220 kb/s.
I'm staying with Virgin because the service hasn't failed yet, and we've not seen any cap at all. Plus the ping to the nearest server is only 12ms, there's zero jitter and zero packet loss. But I'm also upgrading because we've just set the router up that came from Virgin and we find ourselves using the laptops more and more for surfing. Plus getting the NAS and Wifi printer will add to the load.
The router that came from Virgin seems to be ok, we've password'ed it. Neither of us has any idea about all this assiging I.P addresses and apparantly a router's inbuilt firewall can cause lag on xbox live. Something my boyfriend will not live with! :censored: I don't know, the router end of it scares me.
I take your point about the NAS...hmmm. I'm thinking now about just adding 1 storage drive internally, one of the 2gb Green's.
I'm also having third and fourth thoughts about the Sandy Bridge v I7 950. I feel like I'm out buying shoes! I never make my mind up then, either.:rolleyes:
He has a Mamba mouse and a G something or other keyboard. It has a colour screen on it. I don't know what it is but he seems happy with it.
Thanks again for your thoughts MSIC. Mwa!
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Ok, well it sounds like you are really all set up and ready to go. Go with a Core i7, it's a very strong chip, but be aware that since we began our conversing Intel have reduced the prices of a good number of Intel i7 chips, which will very shortly cascade through to retailers, so you could be saving a couple of hundred pounds compared to last week.
Other than that, it sounds like all of your work, research and effort are done. I agree that in your situation you are clearly happy with the Virgin service, which should continue to improve, and also that changing your router is probably not advisable right now.
Come back at any point in the future, i'm keen to hear what happens when the new PC is delivered!
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
MSIC, thank you very much. Above and beyond.
we were going to order today but after reading your last post we're going to hang on and see if the price drops on the I7.
If we can save on the processor we can add that money elsewhere in the build. Or just save it for me! haha. :clapping:
We're both still messing with the specification actually. We're not known for agreeing, my brother and I.:p
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Just an update MSIC (and for anybody else reading the thread).
Had the 50mb upgrade installed. Now got a gloss-black upright box thing with the Virgin logo backlit in neon blue. Rather swish!
We now have 47.6 m/bit download and 4.34 m/bit upload. We started with a packet loss of 93% though and had to log in to the box and disable the 'flood protection'. That took over an hour of researching but it's sorted now as packet loss is now 0% and jitter has gone down from 25ms to 1ms.
We've decided to wait for the new Sandy Bridge builds simply because he won't want to send it back to get the motherboard replaced, and we want to see how the new chipset does before ordering. but waiting is more beneficial from a budget point of view anyway as I'll have even more money in 10 days. Although, your mention of I7's coming down in price has come true. The 6 core 970 is looking affordable now. I realise you can't really quantify 'future proof' but I feel it's much easier replacing a (or adding a second) graphics card than it is a processor.
So if Sandy Bridge isn't all that after the chipset resolution then this is looking nicely affordable now:
Case: Corsair 600T Graphite Series Black Mid Tower Gaming Case
Motherboard X58: Asus Sabertooth TUF - Cerm!x Heatsinks - USB3 & SATA6 Support!
CPU: Intel i7 970 Hex Core 3.2GHz 6.4GT s QPI 12Mb Cache
CPU Coolers: Corsair Cooling H70 Hydro Performance - Not suitable for Silverstone TJ07
Overclocking: Your choice of an Intel i7 professionally overclocked by our 3XS engineers to 4Ghz
Memory - Selecting 12Gb of memory may limit Overclock!: 6GB (3x2GB) Corsair XMS3 DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600) CAS 9
NVIDIA Graphics - Multi GPU SLI Options Available: 1280Mb EVGA GTX 570 732Mhz GPU 480 Cores 3800Mhz GDDR5
ATI Graphics - Multi GPU Crossfire Options Available: *No ATI VGA Card Required* (NVIDIA Required)
Power Supply Unit: 650W Corsair HX Series Modular PSU (Single Graphics Card)
System Drives 3GB s: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 7200rpm 32MB Cache, 2 selected
System Drives 6GB s: *Sata 6GB s Hard Drive Not Required*
Solid State Drives: *Solid State Drive Not Required*
Storage Hard drives: *Storage Hard Drive Not Required*
Optical Drive 1 - DVD Blu Ray: Pioneer DVR-S19LBK DVD Writer
Optical Drive 2 - DVD Blu Ray: *DVD Writer Not Required*
Floppy Drive Flash Card Readers & Writers: Scan AK-ICR10 Multi Card Reader with 2.5" Sata Support
Sound Card: *Sound Card Not Required Use On Board Sound*
Gaming Network Card: *Use On Board Network Port*
Internal External (USB) Wireless Adaptors: Edimax 300Mbps Wireless 802.11 b g n PCI-E Adapter
Case Cooling Fans: *After Market Fans Not Required - Use Fans Included with Case*
Lighting Effects: *Lighting Effects Not Required*
Operating system: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit - OEM
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
What is your partner running atm and does he build his own PCs? It may be worth finding out what he has and using an upgrade path if he has one planned. It may ruin the suprise but if he was like me I would like to know whats going on; I think more planning goes into my PC than my family.
With the overall outlay an SSD would be a must in my eyes.
The SB 2600k chips are supposed ot be on a par with the hex I7s in terms of performance.
Ram is really cheap atm, upgrading to 12gb may only add £50 odd quid.
I imagine your HDD are going to run in RAID0; a backup HDD may be required.
Your interent speeds are mad you could always try for online storage as you upload is faster than my download.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Domestic_Ginger
What is your partner running atm and does he build his own PCs? It may be worth finding out what he has and using an upgrade path if he has one planned. It may ruin the suprise but if he was like me I would like to know whats going on; I think more planning goes into my PC than my family.
With the overall outlay an SSD would be a must in my eyes.
The SB 2600k chips are supposed ot be on a par with the hex I7s in terms of performance.
Ram is really cheap atm, upgrading to 12gb may only add £50 odd quid.
I imagine your HDD are going to run in RAID0; a backup HDD may be required.
Your interent speeds are mad you could always try for online storage as you upload is faster than my download.
Hi Ginger, thanks for replying. He has a Q6600 with a 8800GT, 2x 500gb hdd's and Windows Vista with 3gb ram. He's built a couple of pc's but after his last one went pop he has't done it since (I believe it was an issue with the psu).
He does a lot of photo editing and storage, some video editing, and lots of 'montages' for people using Sony Vegas. It feels like lots anyway because he's always on with one! He mostly games on his xbox but he's always complaining about how much less quality the visuals are on his games on that and the extra cost generally of an xbox game over the same game on pc. He does some gaming on his pc but not so much as it can't really handle it at the resolution of his new monitor (1920x1080). He says at the quality settings he would have to run games at on his pc they actually look much better on the xbox.
I realise a benchmark will make a 6-core look rather good but what about real-world applications? Is there anything out there, considering his usage quoted above, that would make it beneficial over a quad?
With the SSD as I understand it it's rather a messy proposition using one as your boot drive and then installing your games on another hdd in the build? I would prefer an SSD but after researching it some more I came to the above conclusion. He will run out of room fast on an SSD if I'm correct.
I've seen the ram is cheap and was considering 12gb on this build but what application out there needs 4gb per channel? Especially considering the speed of the ram.
Nope, wasn't going to run them in Raid 0. As I understand it unless you get a Raptor or a SSD then the perfomance boost compared to the increased risk of data loss just isn't worth it.
I realise the cost keeps increasing but it's only money and I only have one of him and it's more than likely a one off so I want to do it correctly. His parents and my parents think I'm nuts spending all this on a pc but as they're old the nearest they probably ever got to a computer in their youth was someone scratching on the stone tablet for them.
:help::)
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Hey, glad to see you back again, and still thinking about your PC build for one very lucky guy.
I'd have to concur with D_G, an SSD is a must at this price range really. I would disagree with the assessment of it being messy, you simply tell your game / Steam / the application where to write to and you are done (ie Windows is on the SSD, you put most of your other applications on other drives). Anyone with a basic level of IT use can do this, and i'm 100% confident your partner can if he can use video editing software. That said, an SSD wouldnt make video editing much quicker (of course, the data will not be on the SSD due to space requirements) but its the little things like the menus, the windows, quickly tabbing to a web broswer... all of those sorts of things are literally transformed with an SSD and make the general sense of 'responsiveness' of a computer completely improved, much much more so than a faster processor.
A 6-core in principle will be a good idea for the uses you mention, when compared to a quad-core of the same generation... however the Sandy Bridge generation are better again, so i'd probably be recommending the newest i7's overall. That said, it's swings and roundabouts, and you really cant go wrong with either.
Depending on what sort of video work he does (ie specifically if it is video transcoding, which means converting from one sort of video into another format of video) he may in fact benefit from the 'H' series of motherboards which allow the newest on-board Intel chip graphics, as compared to the 'P' series that allow the overclocking. There will be a new type again, called the 'Z' series, that will allow both features (personally I think its a travesty that Intel have created this artificial divide as it is).
Read more here. (Intel call this feature 'Quick Sync' - in truth, i dont quite understand how to use it yet, so it could be more a 'cool' feature for the future than anything practical for now).
Finally, i'm going to go back on something that I suggested to you the other day about on-board sound cards.
Again, given the budget that you have, as well as the use that your partner has, i'm thinking that at least £20 spent on an improvement in audio quality is worth it. Feel free to post back what choices you have, and i can give you a rough idea of what is good value (in my opinion of course) :)
PS I've just been thinking about the RAM issue... i'm again on the fence about RAM sizes. 6GB ought to be enough for all but the most hardened editor, unless he really is applying great numbers of layers to RAW images. As long as the motherboard still has space to add more RAM in the future, I think that you get 6GB now. 12 GB does seem a bit excessive and unnecessary. That said, photo editing (not video) really is about the only application I can think of that might benefit from more. But he's got 3GB now and is clearly coping. Get 6.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Hi MSIC.
Ok, a SSD it is then. But if it's really that easy to install applications and games on another drive (could you point me to a 'how to'?) is there any point in going for the 128gb Crucial one that I've specified? I'm getting rather confused here.:help:
Intel would no doubt claim that they've made the motherboards that way to lessen the financial impact for people who don't want to overclock or who do but don't want the features of a board allowing better transcoding. But in reality it's all marketing rubbish as the H and P are just separated to create sales.
He already has a sound card in his current pc, as that won't be getting used would he be voiding his warranty if he just installed it in the Scan pc? We've had a look and it's the X-Fi Extreme Audio.
Just to ask, why the change of mind regarding the soundcard?
Thanks for the info MSIC, once again you've done me a great service. And thanks to D_G as well! :iloveyou:
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
Ok, a SSD it is then. But if it's really that easy to install applications and games on another drive (could you point me to a 'how to'?) is there any point in going for the 128gb Crucial one that I've specified? I'm getting rather confused here.:help:
Good choice of SSD. Those Crucial C300's are the best bang for buck option currently. When you install most applications/games they have an install wizard which lets you choose where you want to install (usually labelled as 'custom install') and this will let you choose your second drive to install to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
He already has a sound card in his current pc, as that won't be getting used would he be voiding his warranty if he just installed it in the Scan pc? We've had a look and it's the X-Fi Extreme Audio.
Shouldn't void the warranty. As for the soundcard I would try the onboard audio first and then decide if a dedicated card is needed.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Its easy to install programs on a seperate drive. I do it!
I thought your partner would be using something much older. I would like to spec the DIY approach; This is what I would do but I generally have a much smaller budget, I appreciate this may not be what you wanted to do:-
The Q6600 is still very good in my eyes and a new PSU, GPU and perhaps a case (if needed) would see a huge improvement. A cheapish cooler and a mild overclock (if the mobo) supports it would provide performance gains upto the point where I can't really see the need to invest in a completely new rig. Apologies Scan for thread jumping!
Coolermaster hyper 212 would be transferrable to a new build as it supports plenty of sockets. £19
EVGA 560 £192. It 'only' comes with a three year warranty.
Antec truepower modular 650W is a very good PSU at £60 on today only and it keeps cropping up. The current PSU may be fine at the moment
£271 in total. The rig will not be as good as your specced earlier build. Of course vista is not brilliant and a possible upgrade to W7 may be a good move. You can save the rest and upgrade later.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
I can see where you are going with your idea Domestic_Ginger, but you are taking away from the essential premise of surprising the partner with a 'here you are, the best that money can buy' machine all wrapped up with a Scan warranty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
Hi MSIC.
Hey. I keep secretly hoping that you are my wife, and that i'm actually helping myself here :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
Ok, a SSD it is then. But if it's really that easy to install applications and games on another drive (could you point me to a 'how to'?) is there any point in going for the 128gb Crucial one that I've specified? I'm getting rather confused here.:help:
The thing is, you dont need a 'how to' since it wont be you installing things on the machine (correct me if i'm wrong). I dont want to come across as patronising, but it really is very straightforward: when you install something (a program, a game etc) it actually asks you where you want it - if you've not seen this before, chances are that you do what 99% of people do and just press 'Enter' without reading.
As for the Crucial SSD, there are 2 choices to make. Firstly, what capacity do you want? A 60GB is perfectly good enough considering that it is essentially your Operating System that you want on the SSD, and not really much else (maybe a very commonly used program or two), and since Windows 7 is typically around 20GB then you dont need masses of space. As I said, 60GB is fine, it's your choice if you want to increase this size to allow even more programs on or not. One note of caution - some brands are actually slower as the capacity reduces, and Crucial's write speeds seem to follow this. Dont worry too much though, once Windows is written to the drive, its the read speeds of an SSD that really matter.
Secondly, 'Crucial' brand or other. You can happily buy Crucial and know that its a good choice, or if you want have a read of some comparisons at Anandtech.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
He already has a sound card in his current pc, as that won't be getting used would he be voiding his warranty if he just installed it in the Scan pc? We've had a look and it's the X-Fi Extreme Audio.
Thats a fine card, certainly worth re-using without buying anything else. There was some issue when Win 7 was first released (or was it even Vista? My mind isnt so sharp these days) however drivers are now fully available for that card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
Just to ask, why the change of mind regarding the soundcard?
Just a few threads recently here, however it does depend a little on which motherboard you eventually settle on as some on-board sound chips produce a higher quality than others. Still, the XFi takes care of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
Thanks for the info MSIC, once again you've done me a great service. And thanks to D_G as well! :iloveyou:
Its one big happy family here. I must say, it's quite apparent to me that you have clearly done a huge amount of research, to the point that you know as much as many on the forum. I remain eager to hear your final spec, and also to have feedback once it arrives (both in terms of if the PC does the job you want, and if you can describe the look on your chap's face!).
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Sorry MSIC, no I'm not your wife. I've seen your wife and I don't use a rolling pin I just sulk.:):p
Ah, I didn't explain myself at all when I asked for a 'how to' did I. Initially, it will be me (and my brother) installing software on the system as I'm also purchasing him a HD capture card and some other software and I want it all ready to go when he gets home on the day. But you've explained it anyway, so many thanks.
So I won't be voiding the warranty with Scan if we install the other soundcard? I'd rather buy one in the build if that's not the case.
I'm still researching everything! haha. Spent all day today looking at various builds and google'ing various components. Actually, I'm rather enjoying myself.
Many thanks to you also, D_G. The input is appreciated. I did look at just upgrading but as MSIC says I really want a whole new system with all the bells and whistles. I have a total budget of 2.5k but £700 of that is taken up with the capture card, the new desk, new chair, new speakers (maybe), external storage and software. I'm almost glad about the SB issue now as waiting has allowed me to increase my budget fo rthe pc itself, dramatically.
So based upon your comments (again, thank you gentlemen) I'm now looking at this spec:
Case: Corsair 600T Graphite Series Black Mid Tower Gaming Case
Motherboard - Intel P67 Chipset: Asus P8P67 Pro Intel P67 Express S 1155 PCI-E 2.0 (x16) DDR3 2200(OC) SATA 6Gb s SATA RAID
CPU - Intel 2nd Generation "Sandy Bridge": Intel Core i5 2500K "Unlocked" 3.3Ghz Quad Core 6Mb Cache
CPU Coolers: Corsair Cooling H70 Hydro Performance - Not suitable for Silverstone TJ07
Overclocking - CPU: 2nd Generation Intel® Core™ Sandy Bridge CPU professionally overclocked by our 3XS engineers to 4.5Ghz
Memory - Selecting 16Gb of memory may limit overclock on CPU!: 4GB (2x2GB) Corsair XMS3 Classic DDR3 1600Mhz 1.5v
NVIDIA Graphics - Multi GPU SLI Options Available: 1280Mb EVGA GTX 570 732Mhz GPU 480 Cores 3800Mhz GDDR5
ATI Graphics - Multi GPU Crossfire Options Available: *No ATI VGA Card Required* (NVIDIA Required)
Power Supply Unit: 850W Corsair HX Series Modular (Dual Graphics Cards)
System Drives 3GB s: *Drive Not Required - Using 6GB s or SSD See Below*
System Drives 6GB s: 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black SATA 6Gb s 64MB Cache
Solid State Drives: 128GB Crucial RealSSD C300 6GB s Read 355MB s Write 140MB s
Storage Hard drives: 2TB Western Digital Caviar Green 64MB Cache
Optical Drive 1 - DVD Blu Ray: LG CH10LS20 - 8x Blu-Ray Reader & DVDRW
Optical Drive 2 - DVD Blu Ray: *DVD Writer Not Required*
Floppy Drive Flash Card Readers & Writers: Scan AK-ICR10 Multi Card Reader with 2.5" Sata Support
Sound Card: sound card not required
Gaming Network Card: *Use On Board Network Port*
Internal External (USB) Wireless Adaptors: Edimax 300Mbps Wireless 802.11 b g n PCI-E Adapter
Case Cooling Fans: *After Market Fans Not Required - Use Fans Included with Case*
Lighting Effects: *Lighting Effects Not Required*
Operating system: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit - OEM
Software - Acronis True Image 2011 complete back-up software. : A hidden partition is created & a complete system image is produced. Giving you the option to reset it back to factory defaults should you need to. The software also lets you create scheduled backups.
Software - Application: *No Software Required*
Software - DVD Blu Ray Decoding: *DVD Blu Ray Decoding Software Not Required*
Software - Security: *No Software Required*
Software - Hottest PC Games: *No Software Required*
TFT Monitor: *Monitor Not Required*
NVIDIA 3D Vision TFT Monitor - Requires NVIDIA Graphics Card: *NVIDIA 3D Vision Not Required*
Gaming Keyboard : *Gaming Keyboard Not Required*
Gaming Mouse Option: *Gaming Mouse Not Required*
Gaming Mouse Mat: *Gaming Mouse Mat Not Required*
Speakers: *Speakers Not Required*
Headphones: *Gaming Headphones Not Required*
Extended Warranty: Standard 3XS System Warranty - 2 Years (1st Year Onsite 2nd Year Return to Base)
Delivery & Setup Options: 3XS System Delivery - Our Technician will contact you & arrange a convenient time prior to delivery then your system will be delivered direct to your door.
I mention external storage as he currently has 5.5tb of storage overall and it's very nearly full as he saves all his projects. So I'm already currently considering 2 of the 2tb storage drives instead of the single one spec'd.
A question regarding the H70: Corsair state it should be configured to intake air from outside the case but as it gets mounted where the exhaust would be how do Scan get round pumping hot air into the enclosure?
Thanks for the other links MSIC. More reading for me. Excellent! :clapping:
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Morning.
As I understand it I would agree with JohnnyMnemonic above, that you can happily add other components in to a Scan built system and retain their full warranty. That said, this is my opinion though, and i've had a look on their website for any FAQ's etc, can't find anything to confirm that they do hold this view - ultimately, i'm not affiliated to Scan in any way other than being a customer, so only they can give you a 100% guaranteed answer.
By the way, do you have a new desk sorted yet? See my sig for the one I got from a company on ebay, cost about £300 but i'm very happy with it.
Edit: Oops - I just checked, and that company dont trade any more :( The downside of buying from ebay i suppose. Must update my signature.
In terms of your PC build, i'd probably increase from 4GB to 8GB. As i said earlier when you were thinking about 6GB or 12GB, 6GB is likely to be enough, and indeed 4GB is still generally sufficient certainly for any games. The only thought I have is that 4GB is likely to be fully used for his activities, and increasing to 8GB gives a bit more breathing room. Additionally, is you can spec 2 x 4GB RAM sticks now, he still has slots spare for the future as requirements inevitably grow. The other aspect of this is very simple - 4GB has now become a standard size.... and you surely don't want to give him a 'standard' amount of RAM on an otherwise kick-ass PC ?? :) LOL. I have to say that this is almost all opinion though, I cant link to anywhere explaining evidence behind my recommendation :(
The PSU is a touch over the top, however it's really not a grumble. You could get away with less (a 650W should be enough) but if in any doubt always go more not less. The main thing is that you have a good quality make.
For storage options, either is fine. For general PC use, gaming etc, a 1TB drive really is plenty for a number of years, although a 2TB is wise as a storage drive. Either keep the spec you mention, or change to 2 x 2TB, it makes no big difference as I see it.
Finally for the Corsair H70, i'm afraid that i have no experience - you'll have to ask someone else i'm afraid! (Sorry - i think its the first time ive said this!).
By the way, did you read the recent Hexus review of a similar Scan 3XS system? It may be of general interest to you as the core parts are the same, plus it's a 3XS. Just FYI.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=29060
Other than this, I really would encourage you to consider ordering your system ASAP, once the Intel motherboard issue is confirmed as sorted (should be any day now? They will be identified as a 'B3' version). There may well be some time needed for Scan to build and test it. I cant say what the standard time should be for Scan to aim for (again, i checked on their website, cant find a time period) but i'd be very surprised if it's less than a week, and more likely to be 2. Also, there are occasionally posts on Hexus of people waiting even longer, so again, ask Scan directly.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MSIC
Finally for the Corsair H70, i'm afraid that i have no experience - you'll have to ask someone else i'm afraid! (Sorry - i think its the first time ive said this!).
The H70 is over the top for Sandybridge builds as the CPU runs very cool. The H50 is ideal IMO if you want water cooling. 8GB of RAM is nice to have, especially for video editing, photoshop, modelling, etc.
All in all, a very nice build, your bloke should be over the moon when he gets this!
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Hi you two, thanks again!
I'm going to specify 8gb ram now after reading the last replies. Considering the extra cost it's inconsequential considering the price of the pc I'm looking at. Plus when I tell him the spec I can now say "And it has 8gb ram" I don't know which he'll be more surprised by; the pc and other stuff or the fact I'll be quoting "It's a Sandy Bridge 2500k at 4.5ghz, 8gb ram, GTX 570, ssd boot with a sata 6gb/s WD for games and a 2tb drive for storage". Haha. Yup, your comment about surely I don't want to only spec 4gb in this kick-ass build has sold it for me MSIC.
I take your point about the H70 Johnny but I like it 'cause it's chunky and it's not a whole lot more than the H50.
I've spec'd the psu I have MSIC because it's modular allowing for an even tidier build and it's certified for 2 gtx570's allowing him to go SLI in the future if he so wishes. That should help prolong the life of the build as a gaming machine.
Still stuck on whether to go for a 60-64gb ssd or the 128ssd. Have to think on that some I guess. Would I see even better read speeds if I got 2x 64gb ssd's and asked the nice Scan man to raid them in 1? Not so much bothered about the write speed's as they'll 'bottleneck' with the platter drives anyway. My fella would probably faint if I said there's two ssd's and they're in raid 1. LOL.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Raid 1 is mirroring, you wouldn't get any performance gains as what I think your thinking of is striping which is Raid 0.
Just thought I would mention it in case you asked for the wrong thing.
Jon
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Dammit, I did put '1' didn't I. Twice.
Oops. Well I meant '0'. Thanks for the input though Jon, I could have missed that and just gone and ordered raid 1 as well. :redcard:
So would Raid 0 make a lot of difference in read speeds? After researching the revo and the fact it's basically just two OCZ Vertex's in raid 0 with a raid controller on the pcb I was put off it as the real read speeds were nothing like the theoretical speeds quoted by the manufacturer.
I do appreciate all the help from everyone. I know I have a million questions and your patience is duly noted. I've just come from knowing nothing about computer's and it's extremely important to me to get this as close to perfect as I possibly can.
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Just a quick update. As I said at the start of this thread I'm unable to ring Scan due to my working hours at the moment so I E-mailed Sales Early last week and haven't had a response yet. Ok, they may be busy no biggy. I've also contacted one of the Scan men on here, directly.
But my brother rang Sales yesterday and inadvertently pressed the incorrect line to go through to on his phone and after explaining why he was callling the man at Scan was rather patronising and downright rude in my opinion said "Well obviously you've pressed the wrong button because obviously you should have selected the sales option":telephone:
I realise you keep winning awards for your service Scan but are your staff resting on their laurels a tad because you keep having these successes?
You can't make a first impression again and I'm kind of put off buying from Scan now. So it looks like I may have to start almost from scratch again somewhere else.:mad:
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
That's the problem with etailers, when they deliver what you ordered, on time and working .... they are all the same. It's only when things go wrong that you find the few OK ones amongst all the bad ones. :telephone:
Can't you call the sales team yourself at the weekend ? In my experience their sales people are very helpful.
You have to realise that the guy your brother spoke to is one of these two :)
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Quote:
Originally Posted by
billythewiz
That's the problem with etailers, when they deliver what you ordered, on time and working .... they are all the same. It's only when things go wrong that you find the few OK ones amongst all the bad ones. :telephone:
Can't you call the sales team yourself at the weekend ? In my experience their sales people are very helpful.
You have to realise that the guy your brother spoke to is
one of these two :)
I take your point Billy. Sincerely, I do. I said pretty much the same as you in another thread where someone had taken the time to type about how pleasurable their experience with Scan was.
But. I can only go by my own dealings with them (or rather my brother's). This is the first time I've been considering using them and the first impression wasn't favourable. You can't state either way that if I'd rang myself and got someone ace I wouldn't be on here going on about how good a first impression it was.
to be fair of course Sales people are going to be helpful.....
Anyway, enough of that. I decided to build it myself for that extra personal touch :mrgreen: I'm all anti-static'd up! The bits should be delivered today or tomorrow in a massive box no doubt considering Scan's packaging is always ace. Rather looking forward to it actually. Wish me luck! xx
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewypuppy
Just a quick update. As I said at the start of this thread I'm unable to ring Scan due to my working hours at the moment so I E-mailed Sales Early last week and haven't had a response yet. Ok, they may be busy no biggy. I've also contacted one of the Scan men on here, directly.
But my brother rang Sales yesterday and inadvertently pressed the incorrect line to go through to on his phone and after explaining why he was callling the man at Scan was rather patronising and downright rude in my opinion said "Well obviously you've pressed the wrong button because obviously you should have selected the sales option":telephone:
I realise you keep winning awards for your service Scan but are your staff resting on their laurels a tad because you keep having these successes?
You can't make a first impression again and I'm kind of put off buying from Scan now. So it looks like I may have to start almost from scratch again somewhere else.:mad:
Chewypuppy
Have you still not had a response from SCAN regarding your quotation?
Best Regards
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris P
Chewypuppy
Have you still not had a response from SCAN regarding your quotation?
Best Regards
Hi Chris, thanks for the interest. No, not had a response from anyone at Scan. But don't be too disheartened Scan were the first of 4 PC builders that I emailed for quotes for a pc and not one has responded. Must be nice to ignore potential clients.
On the upside though I decided to build the pc myself and I've purchased the majority of components from yourselves. So all's well that ends well.xx
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Chewypuppy
If you can confirm who you have contacted about this quotation to see why you have not received a response.
Best Regards
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Good on you - that's one seriously impressive piece of work for someone's first try at PC building.
You should be proud of yourself.
Does your other half know now? Has the gift been given?
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Re: Some help required from the more knowledgeable please
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MSIC
Good on you - that's one seriously impressive piece of work for someone's first try at PC building.
You should be proud of yourself.
Does your other half know now? Has the gift been given?
Thanks MSIC, I'm quietly rather proud of myself.
I had to remount the H70 as well which included removing the T.I.M as I was getting temps in the high 40c's at idle and then it shot down to what you see in the pic. Yay!! I put it down to the heatsink not being mounted the same across the surface of the cpu (see pics below). Don't know if that's correct but I don't care as it all worked out. Go me! :clapping:
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9198/unmounth701.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8752/unmounth702.jpg
http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/1771/unmounth703.jpg
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2104/unmounth704.jpg
I'm just now reading all I can about overclocking it as letting the system overclock itself just feels like cheating.
Nope, not given yet. He should be back this weekend hopefully, fingers and toes crossed.
Thanks for all your help MSIC. I won't forget it.xxxx