FSP Zen True 300W (Fanless - dual 12V rail) - Faulty?

[[FSP] Grace]

Hi Dan,

You are welcome. My pleasure to help.

We are waiting for the guys in our head office to review your spec and info. Will let you know if they have any comment or need any more info from you.

Grace

[sgroot]

Hello,

I’ve just bought a Zen Fortron 300W fanless power supply myself, and I’m experiencing the same problem as some of the others on this forum. When I turn on my computer, sometimes it will boot normaly, but than after a minute or so, it turns off again. Most of the times however, it does not boot at all, but after I have heart the fans for a few seconds, it immediately turns off again. The power leds on my computer however, keep blinking after it has turned off, until I keep pushing the power button for a few seconds (the same as when turning the computer off when it won’t shutdown normally).

At the moment I have put my “old” power supply back in the computer case.

The numbers on the package are:
P/N 9PA300B001
S/N S5282001075

My configuration:
Asus A8V-MX motherboard
Amd-Athlon 3500+ Venice core processor
Geforce 5200FX graphic card
Sata harddisk
dvd-burner
2x 512mb ddr ram

I think the 300w capacity should be sufficient with a configuration like this.

Does anybody have an idea what could be the problem here?

Btw.: If it is an incompatibility problem, why does it start-up normally sometimes? It seems logically to me that it shouldn’t work at all in such a case.

Thanks, Stefan (NL)

[DanZ]

Interestingly, I've just tried the "resistor fix" from the [URL="http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=30289&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0"]SPCR forums[/URL], and it seems to have fixed the problem I was seeing. Basically I added a 22 Ohm resistor to the +12V line (equates to a 6.5W load), and this has brought the +5V line back up to the correct voltage. So seems like some sort of minimum 12V load issue with the Zen.

My system is now up and running fine. Obviously it's not completely ideal as I've now got a big hot resistor stuck to the case wasting energy! I hope the head office guys can come up with a proper fix for this. :mrgreen:

sgroot, I'm not sure if this is the same issue you are seeing with your Zen (though the symptoms sure sound similar) - I would have thought an Athlon 64 system would usually draw enough power not to be affected. :confused:

Dan

[Jorgen]

Hi,

I to have a similar problem with a Zen. It turns of 0.5-1s after the computer is powered on but will start the motherboard with no drives if left to sit for 30 minutes or so between starts. I tried some more load by using 6 harddrives after hearing about the low load problem but the problem remained. All tests was done with an open case.

The supply is currently back at the reseller for them to investigate the matter, meanwhile they were kind enough to lend me a conventional supply. I also tried a second Zen from the same batch with the same result. I don't have the serial but according to the reseller this unit is not from the first batch, they were aware of the problems with the first batch.

Computer spec:
ASUS A8N-E
Athlon64 3000+
ASUS EN7600GT
2GB RAM
1 Samsung SATA HD
1 NEC DVD burner

Jörgen

[[FSP] Grace]

Hi Dan,

Can you let us know the model name of your motherboard?

Thanks
Grace

[DanZ]

Hi Grace,

The model number of my MSI motherboard is: MS-5148. I'm not certain what model name it goes by, in the manual it's refered to as: "PCI 430 TX"

Cheers,

Dan

[sgroot]

My problem has been solved now. I have brougth the Zen back to the reseller, and I could change it to a Silverstone SST-ST30NF (which is slightly more expensive, so that's a good service), which is also a 300w fanless powersupply and works fine in my computer.

I still find it strange that the other one didn't work, I'd always thought a powersupply only supplied power, and that the maximum load was the only thing to worry about. According to the reseller, they've had several of this kind of problems. Unfortunately they didn't know how it is caused or how it can be solved.

I hope for the others who've experienced Zen-problems can also be solved.

Stefan

[AV650]

I am also having problems with the FSP Sparkle FSP300-60GNF Zen Noiseless 300W ATX2.0 PSU.

My system is:
Abit KT7A-Raid - Motherboard
1.0 Ghz AMD Athlon - CPU
2 x 256 Mb PC133 - Memory
Ati Radeon 9600SE - Graphics card
Samsung 160 Gb ATA - HDD
Lite-On - DVD-RW drive
Soundblaster Live Platinum 5.1 - Soundcard
Full tower Case
400w PSU that came with the case

The specifics of the non-functioning ZEN PSU are:
FSP300-60GNF
P/N: 9PA300B001
S/N: S5532000460

I bought the Zen Noiseless PSU on 18 May 2006, and when it it arrived on 26 May 2006 and I replaced my PSU, it made my computer unstable. It wasn't able to consistently load windows XP, and if Windows did manage to load, any programs trying to start would crash. Then within 1 minute of windows starting, the system freezes and even the reset button doesn't work. This happened if all of my components are connected to it, or just the HDD. With my old PSU connected my system is stable. I alternated between the FSP300 and my old PSU 3 times and each time the FSP300 is connected, my computer became unstable.

I ran SpeedFan v4.27 to check the voltages on the powerlines. Today with my old PSU connected, Speedfan reports the voltages as:
Core 1.82V
+3.3 3.52V
+5V 5.03V
+12V 12.17V

And the temperatures as:
Temp 1: 31C
Temp 2: 42C This is my CPU temp
Temp 3: 23C

But when last week, when I connected the FSP300, I was never able to save a text file with the voltages and temperatures because either Speedfan would crash or Windows would freeze. But from memory, with the FSP300 connected, the +12V line was lower at around 12.03V and the +5V line was higher at around 5.07V. The temperatures were a bit lower because it was a cooler day and I had the case off when I was testing it. So the problems were certainly NOT caused by overheating in a small case, because I have a full sized tower case, with the case open, and besides, running the computer for a maximum of 1½ minutes is not enough to cause overheating problems.

When I searched for “FSP300-60GNF problems” I found this thread and read that DanZ who also bought his Zen PSU from overclockers.co.uk has the same problem I have, with both the original and his replacement. The serial number for DanZ's non-functioning PSU is S5532000462, and the serial number for my non-functioning PSU is S5532000460. So I hope that this just means that overclockers.co.uk was shipped a bad batch, rather than a incompatibility problem affecting the whole line. But both DanZ and I are both using old, low-powered machines. DanZ had a Pentium 233MMX, and I have a AMD 1.0 Ghz Athlon.

I've been writing daily to overclockers.co.uk and they've wrote back to ask me for my system details, and again when I forgot to tell them what graphics card I'm using, but I've not been sent a RMA number yet.

[amjedm]

[QUOTE=DanZ]Interestingly, I've just tried the "resistor fix" from the [URL="http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=30289&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0"]SPCR forums[/URL], and it seems to have fixed the problem I was seeing. Basically I added a 22 Ohm resistor to the +12V line (equates to a 6.5W load), and this has brought the +5V line back up to the correct voltage. So seems like some sort of minimum 12V load issue with the Zen.

My system is now up and running fine. Obviously it's not completely ideal as I've now got a big hot resistor stuck to the case wasting energy! I hope the head office guys can come up with a proper fix for this. :mrgreen:

sgroot, I'm not sure if this is the same issue you are seeing with your Zen (though the symptoms sure sound similar) - I would have thought an Athlon 64 system would usually draw enough power not to be affected. :confused:

Dan[/QUOTE]

Hi Dan, if you wouldn't mind please could you let me know where you got parts for the 'fix'. I haven't a clue about electronics myself but my brother should be able to make it for me.

Thanks.

[DanZ]

[QUOTE=amjedm]Hi Dan, if you wouldn't mind please could you let me know where you got parts for the 'fix'. I haven't a clue about electronics myself but my brother should be able to make it for me.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Hi amjedm,

This is very simple to do for anyone handy with a soldering iron. You just need a resistor, a wired female molex socket, soldering iron and solder, and some electrical insulating material. I'm in the UK and I popped into Maplin in the high street and picked up a [URL="http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?TabID=1&criteria=wirewound&ModuleNo=2181&doy=12m6"]10 Watt 22 Ohm Wirewound Resistor[/URL] for 25p. I already had a spare female molex connector and wire, but you could use something like a [URL="http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=32407&criteria=power%20extension&doy=12m6"]ATX power extension cable[/URL] and cut the male plug off, or the lead from an old case fan etc.

All you need to do is connect (eg. solder) the resistor in series to the yellow lead (12V) and one of the blacks (ground). Any other wires can be removed. I took the time to pretty the wires up with heatshrink, and thermal epoxied the resistor onto the side of the case, but this isn't essential (just make sure any exposed wire can't short on anything). What you should end up with is something akin to [URL="http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=VLR&view=photos"]this[/URL]. This little device can then be plugged into any spare molex connector on the power supply to put a constant load on the 12v line. The resistor will get very hot when the computer is switched on - this is normal.

Hope this helps.

Dan

[amjedm]

[QUOTE=DanZ]Hi amjedm,

This is very simple to do for anyone handy with a soldering iron. You just need a resistor, a wired female molex socket, soldering iron and solder, and some electrical insulating material. I'm in the UK and I popped into Maplin in the high street and picked up a [URL="http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?TabID=1&criteria=wirewound&ModuleNo=2181&doy=12m6"]10 Watt 22 Ohm Wirewound Resistor[/URL] for 25p. I already had a spare female molex connector and wire, but you could use something like a [URL="http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=32407&criteria=power%20extension&doy=12m6"]ATX power extension cable[/URL] and cut the male plug off, or the lead from an old case fan etc.

All you need to do is connect (eg. solder) the resistor in series to the yellow lead (12V) and one of the blacks (ground). Any other wires can be removed. I took the time to pretty the wires up with heatshrink, and thermal epoxied the resistor onto the side of the case, but this isn't essential (just make sure any exposed wire can't short on anything). What you should end up with is something akin to [URL="http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=VLR&view=photos"]this[/URL]. This little device can then be plugged into any spare molex connector on the power supply to put a constant load on the 12v line. The resistor will get very hot when the computer is switched on - this is normal.

Hope this helps.

Dan[/QUOTE]

Hello Dan

Many thanks for the information. Much appreciated.

[AV650]

Imagine you had a PSU that worked for 3 years and then it started to show stability problems by occasionally not loading your OS and random crashing. If these problems were eliminated by trying a new PSU, then you'd know your old one was faulty and the manufacture should replace it. It would be dangerously reckless to suggest modifying the electrics to get the unstable PSU to work. But that it what is being suggested here, only with a brand new unstable PSU instead of a 3 year old one.

I'm actually very concerned about this resistor "fix". Modding to improve the functioning of your computer is one thing. But you shouldn't have to modify a brand-new power supply so that it works. If the PSU doesn't work, it's either faulty or badly-designed. What happens if it goes wrong, and causes a fire or a surge that damages your motherboard, CPU and memory? Who's going to pay for the damage? FSP Group will say it's not their fault, because you were using a non-functioning PSU and that the resistor modification just covered up symptoms of the fault. The motherboard company will say it's a PSU fault, and the PSU retailer will know your PSU wasn't working and say the damage was caused by your mod.

When you bought the PSU, you entered into a contract with the retailer to supply you with a working PSU at a set price. If it arrives and doesn't work, it is not your responsiblity to fix it or to pay for it to be fixed. As soon as you tell the retailer about the fault, they should issue you with an RMA number and ship out pre-paid packaging and labels to send the faulty PSU back to the manufacture free of charge. This also applys to any and all of the non-functioning replacements.

I'm quite surprised that FSP Group hasn't given an update about what is happening with this issue. I've asked overclockers.co.uk to test the PSU I send back, and tell me if they can reproduce the fault or not. If it tests faulty, they were probably sent a bad batch, but if they can't find the fault, then it might be an incompatibility affecting the whole line. Despite asking them this question on 3 separate occasions, they've refused to answer, so while I'm not sure how common the Zen PSU problems are, I'm sure that attrocious customer service is far more of an issue. Especially if the affected customers feel that modifying their Zen is the only way to get the working PSU that they've already paid for.

[amjedm]

[QUOTE=AV650]Imagine you had a PSU that worked for 3 years and then it started to show stability problems by occasionally not loading your OS and random crashing. If these problems were eliminated by trying a new PSU, then you'd know your old one was faulty and the manufacture should replace it. It would be dangerously reckless to suggest modifying the electrics to get the unstable PSU to work. But that it what is being suggested here, only with a brand new unstable PSU instead of a 3 year old one.

I'm actually very concerned about this resistor "fix". Modding to improve the functioning of your computer is one thing. But you shouldn't have to modify a brand-new power supply so that it works. If the PSU doesn't work, it's either faulty or badly-designed. What happens if it goes wrong, and causes a fire or a surge that damages your motherboard, CPU and memory? Who's going to pay for the damage? FSP Group will say it's not their fault, because you were using a non-functioning PSU and that the resistor modification just covered up symptoms of the fault. The motherboard company will say it's a PSU fault, and the PSU retailer will know your PSU wasn't working and say the damage was caused by your mod.

When you bought the PSU, you entered into a contract with the retailer to supply you with a working PSU at a set price. If it arrives and doesn't work, it is not your responsiblity to fix it or to pay for it to be fixed. As soon as you tell the retailer about the fault, they should issue you with an RMA number and ship out pre-paid packaging and labels to send the faulty PSU back to the manufacture free of charge. This also applys to any and all of the non-functioning replacements.

I'm quite surprised that FSP Group hasn't given an update about what is happening with this issue. I've asked overclockers.co.uk to test the PSU I send back, and tell me if they can reproduce the fault or not. If it tests faulty, they were probably sent a bad batch, but if they can't find the fault, then it might be an incompatibility affecting the whole line. Despite asking them this question on 3 separate occasions, they've refused to answer, so while I'm not sure how common the Zen PSU problems are, I'm sure that attrocious customer service is far more of an issue. Especially if the affected customers feel that modifying their Zen is the only way to get the working PSU that they've already paid for.[/QUOTE]

You may have heard of similar issues with the Antec Neo HE range. I contacted Antec about RMA'ing if there was a problem and they told me I have to ship the psu to them in the Netherlands!

Would cost half the price of the psu at a guess to send it back? Obviously I didn't buy the Antec psu.

[AV650]

I can understand manufacture's wanting you to pay the shipping if the part develops a fault after it's several years old. But if it's brand new, then it shouldn't be the customers responsiblity to pay for the shipping. Forcing the retailer and manufactures to pay the shipping costs, puts pressure on them to thoroughly test products before they are released. If customers are forced to pay shipping costs for faulty products, it means that the customer has to pay for the privilige, of being an unpaid quality control product tester.

[[FSP] Ann]

[QUOTE=DanZ]Hi Grace,

The model number of my MSI motherboard is: MS-5148. I'm not certain what model name it goes by, in the manual it's refered to as: "PCI 430 TX"

Cheers,

Dan[/QUOTE]


Hi, Dan,

Sorry for late reply

would you mind providing the S/N (serial number) , I will check our stock and see if you can exchange another unit of Zen with your existing one

The Number is on your power supply

Thank you!

Ann

[[FSP] Ann]

[QUOTE=AV650]I am also having problems with the FSP Sparkle FSP300-60GNF Zen Noiseless 300W ATX2.0 PSU.

My system is:
Abit KT7A-Raid - Motherboard
1.0 Ghz AMD Athlon - CPU
2 x 256 Mb PC133 - Memory
Ati Radeon 9600SE - Graphics card
Samsung 160 Gb ATA - HDD
Lite-On - DVD-RW drive
Soundblaster Live Platinum 5.1 - Soundcard
Full tower Case
400w PSU that came with the case

The specifics of the non-functioning ZEN PSU are:
FSP300-60GNF
P/N: 9PA300B001
S/N: S5532000460

I bought the Zen Noiseless PSU on 18 May 2006, and when it it arrived on 26 May 2006 and I replaced my PSU, it made my computer unstable. It wasn't able to consistently load windows XP, and if Windows did manage to load, any programs trying to start would crash. Then within 1 minute of windows starting, the system freezes and even the reset button doesn't work. This happened if all of my components are connected to it, or just the HDD. With my old PSU connected my system is stable. I alternated between the FSP300 and my old PSU 3 times and each time the FSP300 is connected, my computer became unstable.

I ran SpeedFan v4.27 to check the voltages on the powerlines. Today with my old PSU connected, Speedfan reports the voltages as:
Core 1.82V
+3.3 3.52V
+5V 5.03V
+12V 12.17V

And the temperatures as:
Temp 1: 31C
Temp 2: 42C This is my CPU temp
Temp 3: 23C

But when last week, when I connected the FSP300, I was never able to save a text file with the voltages and temperatures because either Speedfan would crash or Windows would freeze. But from memory, with the FSP300 connected, the +12V line was lower at around 12.03V and the +5V line was higher at around 5.07V. The temperatures were a bit lower because it was a cooler day and I had the case off when I was testing it. So the problems were certainly NOT caused by overheating in a small case, because I have a full sized tower case, with the case open, and besides, running the computer for a maximum of 1½ minutes is not enough to cause overheating problems.

When I searched for “FSP300-60GNF problems” I found this thread and read that DanZ who also bought his Zen PSU from overclockers.co.uk has the same problem I have, with both the original and his replacement. The serial number for DanZ's non-functioning PSU is S5532000462, and the serial number for my non-functioning PSU is S5532000460. So I hope that this just means that overclockers.co.uk was shipped a bad batch, rather than a incompatibility problem affecting the whole line. But both DanZ and I are both using old, low-powered machines. DanZ had a Pentium 233MMX, and I have a AMD 1.0 Ghz Athlon.

I've been writing daily to overclockers.co.uk and they've wrote back to ask me for my system details, and again when I forgot to tell them what graphics card I'm using, but I've not been sent a RMA number yet.[/QUOTE]


Hi, AV650,

I have reported your problem to Headquarter in Taiwan, I will let you know the resule shortly.

thank you for your inquiry

Ann