Projekt Grenadier (Landrover Defender wannabe) in talks with Ford

[Zak33]

Lo drivers.

You may or may not know, but a bloke with a succesful chemical company (Jim Ratcliffe) started planning a replacement, for the Defender.

He called it Grenadier, and made a pretty website and got some good attention
https://youtu.be/wNMZKaaXdHQ though no where near enough (imo) to get it moving forward

He knows his 4x4, and had a load of what I'd call classic hardcore offroaders around when he began. Shoguns, Jimny's, Vitara's, LandCruisers etc...and he began work on a plan.

https://www.ineos.com/businesses/ine...omotive/about/

Ignoring the new love of EV's, and the uter hatred of diesel that's sprung up all around the timeframe, I spy that he's settled into a little chat with Ford recently.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46070861

which makes some sense

I can't see it ever being made in the UK, tbh, but being a true Brit, he'd like that.

==
Meantime, last month Ford held their engine plant staff at home for a week for those who make Jaguar's engine in the Ford Factory,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46002556


And Schaeffler just announced closures
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46110825

Complex world, but that's the Motor Trade for you.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Must be all the money he is saving from living in Monaco as a tax exile!

If it is being made,unless it is made in the UK,it will be just another expensive car,using the heritage of vehicle designed and built in the UK,farmed off to a cheaper country with a premium price tag. Just like what Dyson does with all their products and why I will never buy one. Gtech OTH moved jobs back here,so there is no reason not to.

There is zero excuse for the car not to be made here. If other expensive countries can make cars(Germany,the US and Japan) I can't see why this cannot be built here. We have the engineering talent and workers who can make it work.

[Spreadie]

The website has been up for a year and there's nothing on there but pipesmoke. Nothing substantive at all.

[spacein_vader]

There has been a replacement for the Defender for donkeys, it's called the Land Cruiser. It's like a defender except reliable.

Couple of old Aussie Defender jokes:

If you want to go into the outback, take a Defender. If you want to come back out again, take a Toyota.

They say that over 60% of all Defenders ever made are still on the road. Presumably the other 40% made it home.

[Zak33]

There has been a replacement for the Defender for donkeys, it's called the Land Cruiser. It's like a defender except reliable.

Couple of old Aussie Defender jokes:

If you want to go into the outback, take a Defender. If you want to come back out again, take a Toyota.

They say that over 60% of all Defenders ever made are still on the road. Presumably the other 40% made it home.

the Rangerover was / is worse. by miles.

When the Rangerover was launched a very lnog time ago, it "went on safari" backed up by an invisible fleet of defenders to pull it out of the cack

[Zak33]

The website has been up for a year and there's nothing on there but pipesmoke. Nothing substantive at all.

agreed....hence the phrase "He called it Grenadier, and made a pretty website and got some good attention
https://youtu.be/wNMZKaaXdHQ though no where near enough (imo) to get it moving forward"

[Zak33]

but the POINT IS... Ford have gone to chat with him.....

and I don't take the point that it wold be massively pricey - it would nevel sell.
the original concept was to make a bog standard off roader that could be hosed off/hosed out.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I only care if it is built here,ie,the whole chassis and body not just bits and pieces. If Nissan,etc can build cars here profitably,then so should the "new Landrover". If it ends up being built in mainland Europe,the US,Singapore,etc it might as well be the same as any other import.

It would be utterly hilarious if the Qashqai ends up being more British than this new entrant!

Edit!!

Also as the article states the Bridgend plant won't be making engines for JLR in 2020,so if they don't get any more work,Ford will shut it down and probably use some excuse due to "market conditions" and even they do make something for the "new Landrover" it might be some engines. Already Michelin is shutting down a tire plant in Scotland with the loss of 850 jobs:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...ntral-46097215

However,I don't trust Ford at all - they sell so many cars in the UK,but over time have pushed most production to mainland Europe,US,etc:

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/cars-made-in-britain

Look who is on the list.

Made in Britain

MINI – MINI, MINI Clubman and MINI Countryman, in Cowley, Oxford
Honda – Civic and CR-V in Swindon
Toyota – Auris, Auris hybrid and Avensis in Burnaston, Derbyshire
Nissan – Juke, Qashqai, Note and Leaf and Infiniti Q30 in Sunderland, Tyne and Wear
Lotus – Elise, Evora and Exige in Norfolk
Aston Martin – DB9, Vantage, Rapide, Vanquish, and DB11 in Gaydon, Warwickshire
Bentley Motors – Continental, Flying Spur and Mulsanne in Crewe, Cheshire
Rolls Royce – Ghost and Wraith in Goodwood, West Sussex
Jaguar – F-Pace and XE in Solihull, and F-type, XJ, XF and XE in Castle Bromwich, Birmingham
Land Rover – Discovery Sport and Range Rover Evoque in Halewood, Merseyside, and Range Rover, Range Rover Sport and Land Rover Defender in Solihull, West Midlands
Vauxhall – Astra at Ellesmere Port and Vivaro van in Luton

Other niche, small volume manufacturers include Westfield, Bristol, Ariel and Noble.

Ford stopped building cars in the UK in 2002 and vans (Transits) in July 2013 but continues to manufacture engines in Bridgend and Dagenham and transmissions in Halewood.

JLR is already having issues due to falling diesel car sales,etc so if this ends being built somewhere else,its going to make more problems for UK based vehicle makers,especially those in the supply chain which make parts for all of them.

Its one thing doing the R and D,etc here,but that is only a niche of the entire workforce TBH.

We have to be very careful,as you only have to see what happened to the Australian car industry which is pretty much almost finished,since companies started palming off making stuff elsewhere and it ended up not being viable anymore.

[Gerrard]

Removed due to misunderstanding.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I find that statement a bit ironic coming from someone who just recently moaned not getting a cheaper game key that was harvested in a cheaper region.

Stop trolling. I find it ironic that a CDKeys supporter is rushing to defend a company which missold a product in a car thread,and is actually run by British expats and has offices in Europe and the US. Oh wait,you didn't realise that,right? Or the fact the game is not made in the UK by a British company either.

So I gave feedback about the company having issues,and now that is me complaining. Oh goody.

So next time if YOU have a problem with a company not giving you good customer service,I expect you will never complain about it,because I will quote your post back at you.

I also find it ironic that you as a person who lives in the UK,seems to want to attack me for saying a car invoking memories of the Landrover should be made here. Apparently you hate that so much,that you want to deflect from that with something that has nothing to do with it on some thread which has affected you so much,you want to talk about it in a car thread.

Looking at your response it seems no wonder the British car industry is dying,is because when anyone suggests a British designed car be made in this country,lets try deflecting from that.

Edit!!

Your attitude stinks - in the Fallout 76 thread you asked if I could put in less pictures,etc and I changed my post out of politeness.

Then you come into this thread and then try crap like that. Next time if you request me to do anything I will ignore you.

[Gerrard]

I wasn't, and don't, defend CDKeys.

But the point I should have expanded on is that it isn't practical for every car manufacturer to build their cars here, and determining which manufactureres to buy from based purely on that seems a bit short-sighted. It could however be different after Brexit (which I think Saracen has mentioned before) as import duties etc. on spare parts and running costs is a more solid basis for whom I would buy from.

It is far more efficient just to have 2 or 3 (or however many to meet demand) factories serving the whole of the EU. At that point, if it is cheaper to build elsewhere, they will. My statement was more the fact that just like the US is finding with its protectism policies, the costs are just passed onto consumers, who will try to get best value (not necessarily the cheapest). People seem to be all for home manufacturing but want to pay a development world cost for it. It is probably the case that our existing infrastructure is what is keeping a lot of the manufacturers here for the time being as it's more expensive to move to a cheaper region where it could be years before you get a return on investment.

I personally recognise the need to keep manufacturing industry competitive because of the reasons above where there is a choice. It means we keep skilled jobs and a better QOL with wages etc. But if you starting from scratch, then the UK might not be the best.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

snip

There is one thing I try to do here to the best of my abilities - if I have argument or disagreement in a thread,it stays in that thread,and that is that. You knew very well they were having problems and its been confirmed elsewhere with certain releases(like RDR2,etc) they oversold stuff and I am pointing that out I am NEVER ever going to do that.

Plus another thing dude - I only used that company on and off after all the glowing reviews here and on OcUK in the last few years.Most times before I bought physical copies anyway from places like Game. I was on a 2MB to 3MB connection until last year.

If I know a company is in trouble or has problems,I won't put it here - I have done so before so people don't get caught out. This time,I am not - its not worth the aggro and trolling from people(like what you are doing),so its your problem. Its the same with other stuff,I am not going to bother posting here. I am not getting paid for doing this at all and some of you forget this.

I am doing it for YOUR benefit not mine. I told my mates,so my conscience is clear.

Regarding the car making stuff. No I don't agree - plenty of countries with high labour costs,restrictive labour laws,etc make cars and other stuff fine. I am utterly sick and tired of British heavy industry being gutted and gutted whilst other developed countries do more than us and have all the same problems. I am sick and tied of stuff promoting British engineering talent,whilst not making stuff here. This country has some of the most liberal labour laws in the whole EU too. There is no belief in doing anything here anymore. How can a country keep surviving on zero hour contracts at minimum wage,the "gig" economy,etc which is making the labour figures look better than they are?? Look at GKN,its finished longterm due to the hostile takeover by fellow Brits and it is a viable concern,and I met people who have started to see the effects of it.

There is way too much short-termism in the UK when it comes to investment,and a "quick buck" mentality which manifests itself in spending the least,and taking the money and running.

This is why Japanese car firms showed car making was viable here,whereas all the big local ones collapsed and everyone blamed the workers and every other excuse under the sun,and not the poor management,short-termism.etc.

They looked longterm. Even in science short-termism is creeping in,and its really short sighted when it comes to innovation.

Edit!!

Now look at this:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...lance-of-trade





Germany is hardly some low wage country like China. The UK is hardly a low cost car market - German cars are not cheap and we are the biggest market in Europe for people like VW IIRC.

We can't keep importing everything. Our national debt is rising and rising as governments need to borrow more and more.

After all how did Germany have such a big car industry?? It was down to investment and a longterm outlook. The US has the same issues as the UK to a certain degree too,but its worse here in some ways.

Even viable businesses like GKN and being broken up for short term profits.

So if this car is built in Germany,why should be any different from looking at a Landcruiser made in Japan,a Jeep made in Belgium,etc?

A Qashqai will be more "British".

It annoys me when companies hype up the "Britishness" of things and then like Dyson make it elsewhere. Its just marketing bumpf then to hoodwink people. If they don't care then don't hype that part of it.

If foreign firms invest money here and make successful manufacturing businesses then why do some many British firms don't bother. I never understood it. Its like foreigners have more trust in our work force.

Even low cost stuff can be made here - look at the Raspberry Pi.

I am not saying everything has to be made here,or we have to buy only UK made stuff,but there has to be a limit to anything really.

[Zak33]

pls keep it civil...

[peterb]

I shall say this only once (to everyone)

Accusations of trolling and other name calling are not acceptable on HEXUS.

However, disagreement with someone’s views is a perfectly acceptable part of debate and discussion, so disagree with someone’s point of view as much as you like but without name calling - if your argument relies on that, it is probably a weak one and is, to use the Nvm abbreviation, not very mature.

[kalniel]

Genuine question: Do we 'deserve' to have manufacturing jobs any more in the UK than another country like Bulgaria?

For a given demand it is a zero sum game, so why not allow cheap cars to be made in cheap labour countries, and allow the customer to chose to pay more for expensive cars from expensive labour countries if they so wish? Yes, it'd be nice if we had more jobs, but it's horribly selfish to have them at the expense of another country's jobs.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I shall say this only once (to everyone)

Accusations of trolling and other name calling are not acceptable on HEXUS.

However, disagreement with someone’s views is a perfectly acceptable part of debate and discussion, so disagree with someone’s point of view as much as you like but without name calling - if your argument relies on that, it is probably a weak one and is, to use the Nvm abbreviation, not very mature.

So is people bringing up stuff from another thread which has nothing to do with this one,and on purpose starting a strawman based on misrepresenting that thread and attacking people based on it to have an argument in this one.

If that person has such an issue with what I said in that thread they can use a PM and we can talk about it.