£120 +VAT for the worlds smallest bit of plastic...

[Nick]

Hello there C+B regulars...

I don't post in here very often but felt I had to share this one with you.

The electric window on the drivers door of my Proton packed up two days ago... it made a mettalic clanking sound and then just stopped.

So today I took the door trim off to see what was up and found that the window is wound up and down by a cable, clipped into a holder that's screwed through the window.

The problem was that the holder has a plastic fitting that grips a lug on the cable, letting the windoe go up and down... and this had broken, letting the cable run free and tangle itself up.

So, I unbolt the lot, find the damage and set about trying to get a replacement part as this plastic bit is beyond glueing ( and probably wouldn't stand up to the stress if I could glue it)

But in my quest for bits, I tired the local Proton dealer to be told that I can;t just by the rail and clip, I need to buy the motor, cabling and essentially the whole damn window mechanism... for £120 + VAT and if I want it fitted properly it'll be another £75 plus VAT for labour...

Guess what? No local breakers have a part (all I need is the window runner bit, the motor and cabling is fine)... a couple of breakers that'll post it to me have them but I kinda need the part now. And they also want to send me the whole system and not just the rail and holder... and they want upwards of £50 + VAT...

So I'm now waiting to see if a great big blob of Alraldite will do the job... after all, it's all scrap if it doesn't work anyway.

But what's most annoying is that it's a simple plastic moulding... sure, I can;t pop it out and put a new one in there but why can't I just buy the damn rail on it's own???

It's a bit like insisting I have a new wiper motor and linkage each time I want to change my wiper blades!

Bloody scam!

[Lowe]

There are national breakers mate - there's websites about where you put in the part you need and breakers get back to you. I'm sure someone will have what you need. Tried any owners clubs - there's bound to be some out there and you're bound to find someone breaking a car

[Funkstar]

The chances are that Proton buy this whole assembly from their suppliers as is, so there is actually no line itm for the piece you want, just for the kit.

[SilentDeath]

for a part like this you will need to goto a local breakers and take it off yourself.

your not going to get a cheap deliveryed price becuase its just not worth their time and effort to take it out of the car - doors are a PITA.

if you cba to get one yourself from the breakers... (finding the correct model, with windows still in tact if needed, is going to be very near impossible. If the windows are smashed from stacking cars, I guess it could also damage that clip? not just making it bloody annoying to get the part out)... if it were me I would probably try to fabricate a replacement out of either copper sheet/plate, aluminuim sheet/bar or plastic scrap since it sounds like a simple part.

if a proton owners club exists, you could try there, though im not quite sure why one would possibly exist except for the trade of gearboxes.

[GoNz0]

So I'm now waiting to see if a great big blob of Alraldite will do the job... after all, it's all scrap if it doesn't work anyway.

strip some wire of its insulation and wrap the wire round while the glues wet if at all possible to give some reinforcment, used that trick a few times myself when i know glue alones wont do the trick, had a couple of great money saving results doing that

[beanbandit]

A work college of mine had exactly the same thing happen to him, but his was a Renault Scenic. He was going to have to replace the whole system and at a stupid price. I think in the end he machined up a replacement part himself, then traded the car in I'll ask on monday and see what he did.

I have a feeling that just gluing the part together won't be strong enough. If you can, try and drill a small(ish) hole in both parts, and use a piece of metal rod to give it some strength, then glue it.

[charleski]

strip some wire of its insulation and wrap the wire round while the glues wet if at all possible to give some reinforcment, used that trick a few times myself when i know glue alones wont do the trick, had a couple of great money saving results doing that

That's a good tip. Glue on its own often won't hold in cases like this, you need to give it something to stick to which will actually take the load.

[Nick]

Glue didn't work so I tried stripping the metal part out of a bit of electrical jointing block, you know that copper stuff with a couple of small screws to join two wire together?

Then I drilled a hole in the holder, cut the cable and joined the two bits together.

Only problem is, all the cabling is twisted and frayed so I went to Halfords and bought two lengths of bicycle brake cable cos they have the shaped stoppers at the end. I cut these to length, rigged it all up, and then gave it a few test runs... no problems.

Mounted it all back in the door, ran it a few times without trouble, then mounted the window and on the second test something gave and it all jammed up again.

So, tomorrow I'm going to get two new cables at 99p each but I need to figure out a better way of joining them together... and then I have to make sure I get the cable lengths right too as too much slack jams the drum and too little slack pulls the cable out the connector on the window rail...

Still, I'm getting there...

So, any got any ideas how to join two lengths of twisted steel cable and have that joined attached to a metal plate? I need a mechanical solution really as welding or soldering are pretty much out of the question given its aluminium plate with a crapload of plastic on it.

[hitman67]

Some super Expoy might do the job as that stuff is bloody strong.

Which Proton is it? Chances are the part will be the same as some more mainstream models so you may be able to find one locally cheap.

[Nick]

I've got it figured how I'll do it.. I think..

I've already drilled one hole in the bottom of the holder, so I'll drill another in the top, feed the cable through that and then use the Scotch block as a cable clamp, looping the cable through and then back into the block... I'll do that top and bottom and then I can use them to get the lengths right too...

The only fiddly arse part is having to hook the unti back up to the car to test it each time.

So back to Halfords for more brake wire tomorrow.

[DR]

I got a bit of plastic which costs me more each month... it's called Mastercard

[Shad]

That's a bizarre sounding window mech... any chance of a pic, I'm interested to learn how it works

[Nick]

Sorry Shad, I was too busy fixing the damn thing to take a picture.

Basically, it's a threaded drum powered by a leccy motor.

In it's original state it has one cable wound onto it, with both ends of the cable being wound on at opposite ends of the thread on the drum... so as the drum turns, in either direction, one cable winds off and the other winds on.

In the middle of the cable is a small bit of metal which is the clamp point to attach to the holder for the window, and the holder runs on a rail bolted to the car. It was the plastic surround for this clamp point that had broken, and, because there was now slack in the cable, it meant the cable fouled on the thread of the drum.

And that's where the huge bill comes in because Proton don't sell the cable, drum, holder or rail as separate parts. That said, I can see why as there's no way to remove the holder from the rail without drilling out the rivets that hold the guide pulleys on top and bottom...and even if you did that, there's no way you can thread a new cable on as it has large nobs at each end, and the one on the middle, which won't pass through the tensioner sleeves or under the drum casing between the drum and the thread.

Anyway, my fix was pretty simple once I understood how it all worked.

I used two cables because of all the threading I had to do, which I joined at the window holder.

I bought two bike brake cables at £1.99 each which come ready fitted with lugs at the end. I fed these into the drum and then round onto the rail and up to the older.

The thing you have to do is make sure you manually thread the cable around the drum rather than let it wind itself up... so I set the holder in the fully up position (ie, the window would be closed) and them threaded the 'up' cable onto the drum, putting on two full turns.

I then did the same with the 'down' cable but this time only putting on one turn complete turn before threading it through the bottom pulley and up to the holder.

I drilled two holes in the holder and pass the down cable through one of these after first threading it through a scotch-block electrical joining block which I had trimmed all the plastic from. After threading the cable through the hole in the holder I threaded it back through the scotch-block and, pushing the holder into the fully 'up' position, I pulled the cable as tight as I could and then secured it with the two screws in the scotch-block.

That was the down cable done with plenty of tension to stop it jumping the threads on the drum and also with one turn on even when the window is fully up so that the lug at the end, secured in a notch on the drum, didn't have any play in it to come loose.

I then wound on the up cable so it was one thread over from the down cable on the drum before feeding that through the tensioner, into the top pulley and then into the holder. Again, I passed it through a stripped scotch-block, through my second whole and back into the scotch-block before doing up the screws.

It's all back in the door, reassembled and working perfectly.

So, for £3.98 and two bits of scotch-block I already had, I've done a robust repair and saved meself £120+VAT.

Kinda chuffed on that!

I've titled up the post in the hope that Google might pick it up cos in seraching for solutions on the net I came up with zilch.

[Funkstar]

Excellent work nick!

Proton can't be the only people to use this mechanism, so i'm sure there willo be others that will benefit from your experience

[Rave]

Good work!

Some bastard knocked my mirror glass out the other day, and before fitting an aftermarket replacement I thought I'd have a fiddle with the adjuster mechanism which has never worked since my mum got the car (since I'd not be able to get in once I'd stuck the replacement on, it uses a sticky pad). Anyway, after about two hours of putting superglue all over both ends of the adjuster wires, gluing myself to various parts, squirting water about to speed up the drying of the superglue etc. etc. I gave up and resigned myself to having to keep poking the mirror with my finger- but when I put it all back together it miraculously worked! I was jolly pleased with myself.

[herulach]

Good work!

Some bastard knocked my mirror glass out the other day, and before fitting an aftermarket replacement I thought I'd have a fiddle with the adjuster mechanism which has never worked since my mum got the car (since I'd not be able to get in once I'd stuck the replacement on, it uses a sticky pad). Anyway, after about two hours of putting superglue all over both ends of the adjuster wires, gluing myself to various parts, squirting water about to speed up the drying of the superglue etc. etc. I gave up and resigned myself to having to keep poking the mirror with my finger- but when I put it all back together it miraculously worked! I was jolly pleased with myself.

Random fiddling by blokes with bits of stuff they dont understand. The solution to every engineering problem since time began.