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Thread: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

  1. #1
    Spider pig, spider pig
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    To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    Hi everyone,

    A relatively quick question. I have been thinking recently about changing my car RX8 to something more economical for the commute to work as it really drinks the fuel, but I'm not sure I could bear to lose it for something that just wouldn't be as fun.

    It got me thinking, I could keep the RX8 and maybe consider using a motorbike for a lot of the commute -saving money and also having some fun in the process. The idea of being able to skip past lots of stationary traffic is quite nice too.

    Thing is, I've never really ridden a bike, only once or twice and never on the roads. I'm a reasonably experienced driver (around 10,000 miles a year for 10 years, no accidents) but I'm just not sure about how safe a bike is, or how practical one is to own.

    The thought that sparked it all was seeing this on HUKD:

    http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/duca...erbike/1003275

    Any bikers with opinions on plusses and minusses of bike ownership? Not that I'm sure I'd ever get it past the wife but have to start somewhere...

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    seriously... only YOU know the answer to that question.

    I've avoided them all my life.. life being the reason and an inner belief that I'd bite off more than I can chew, and the game would be over. Even at 18 I knew this in my heart.

    But it is no secret that bikes are uber....

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    Senior Member Andy3536's Avatar
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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    When you say you want to save money, and then you go on to say that you want a 900cc sports bike. I do start to wonder where you would save money.
    You'd still have your RX8 and are still paying for that, then you would have the cost of a new bike, insurace, tax & wear etc. Sounds more like your spending money.
    If your after a cheap commute then moped? If you use the motorway alot then mabee something like a 200cc Burgman.

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    Senior Member Tumble's Avatar
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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    Plus sides of riding a bike:

    The aircon is ALWAYS on, and doesn't use any more fuel.
    Much better fuel economy for better output from a relatively tiny engine
    Every other biker is your friend - much better camaraderie between bikers than any other road users
    Overwhelming sense of freedom whilst riding (my favourite bit)
    Cheaper road tax
    You quickly get very good at reading the road (you have to)
    You notice more things going on, which is disconcerting when you get back in your car, but it will make you a better driver in the long run. (everyone can improve, no matter how good you are or think you are)

    Minus sides:

    The aircon is ALWAYS on - it can get proper cold in the winter/raining, but if you get the right kit you'll be ok
    The right kit is bloody expensive - you can end up spending as much on the proper clothing as you did on the bike (I know I did, and trust me, I was grateful when I fell off the thing)
    you WILL fall off at some point, if you're lucky you'll get away with a few bruises, if you're not... well...
    If things go wrong, they will go very wrong, very quickly
    Car drivers tend to treat you like dirt, especially with L-Plates on

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    Senior Member Betty_Swallocks's Avatar
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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    Whatever you do don't get that Ducati. It's not a beginners bike and it'd be rubbish at commuting.

    Look for something in the midrange of bikes. Something like the old GPZ500S. Plenty of power for a newcomer to biking and perfectly suited to commuting.

    It accelerates about as fast as a decent Porsche and tops out at about 120 but it's narrow enough to slip in between the traffic. Some years ago I downsized from a Suzuki RF900 to a GPZ500 and knocked 10 minutes off my commute from Redhill to central London purely because the 500 handled the traffic better.

    You'd burn the clutch out on a Ducati within a month I guarantee it. It's not designed for that kind of riding.
    "Free speech includes not only the inoffensive but the irritating, the contentious, the eccentric, the heretical, the unwelcome and the provocative provided it does not tend to provoke violence. Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not worth having."

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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    The answer is a simple one, you have never rode a bike on the road you don't go buying a 900cc Ducati, simple as that.

    If you want something that is economical look at a 50cc scooter or a 125cc.

    If you want something fun and economical look at a CBR 600 their considered one of the better learning more forgiving bikes.

    I've rode a 125cc for quite a few years now in the rain and not, first couple of times you feel it slide in the wet with 0 control over were its going really makes you appreciate how close to the road you are. Drain covers, bits of rubbish on the road, the stuff they use to seal the cracks you have to pay attention to it all. I've never actually come off but come close a few times and don't really wish to experience it lol but more then likely you will come off at some point so spending the money on protective gear pays dividends.

    That said biking can be very rewarding and you really feel like your part of the machine and not just a passenger.

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    Senior Member this_is_gav's Avatar
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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    As above regarding the choice of bike. Go simple, and if you feel the need to move up, do so only when you've outgrown the previous bike. Don't go straight for a 900cc beast - indeed don't go from a 125cc to a 900cc bike.

    The only thing I disliked about biking was getting somewhere and having to change clothes. For anything half-formal, it wasn't much fun getting somewhere and making a bee-line for the bathroom or toilets. And I forgot to pack my trousers in my bag for work one morning - be warned!

    If you feel you're a considerate, attentive, patient driver, then a bike will likely suit you. But if by "fun" you mean speed and adrenaline... stick with four wheels, as you'll only hurt yourself or worse. In my experience biking is fun for the most part, but only if you know the limits and stay well within them.

    For the record, I'll give you my experiences below, though with an emphasis on the negative.

    I fell off twice, both while doing around 60mph. The first was my own fault, but all I can remember is suddenly locking the rear wheel. It was a nasty accident where the back-end came around when locked up and I hit a grass embankment at about a 3/4 angle. I (instinctively) fell from the bike just before impact and my body did about 50mph to 0mph in about 2 metres - I didn't roll, I just bounced slightly back into the road, so my body took the maximum force. I had new bruises appearing on my torso 2 weeks after the accident. Yet other than those bruises (which were basically just visual and didn't really hurt) my only injury was what I suspect was a mild fracture of the little finger on my right hand (I didn't feel the need to have it looked at as didn't really hurt unless I knocked it).

    The other was the fault of another driver. He pulled out of a side junction without looking, and I must have slowed it to about 45-50mph when I hit him. I only had a bruised knee this time, but the bike was a write-off. His number-plate fell off... and that was it.

    The first accident didn't really affect me in the slightest as I knew it was all my own fault. It made me a touch more aware of making sure I knew what I was doing, and concentrating where I was going, but it didn't really make much difference other than that.

    The second one made me acutely aware of what was going on around me. I got hypersensitive about drivers pulling out of junctions without due care, and wasn't afraid of letting them know. It didn't make me more nervous, but it made me a heck of a lot sharper. Your eyes are on stalks, always on the look out for a potential hazard, be it another motorist, a puddle or ice, a rabbit, an empty coke can, a patch of mud, leaves in the autumn, etc. That's not a bad thing in my eyes - I appreciated feeling so aware of what was going on around me. Like I say it didn't make me any more nervous, just far more attentive.

    The first time I encountered ice (indeed it was ice with a recent sprinkling of hail-stones, which is probably worst case scenario) I was doing about 50mph and I felt the rear sliding out despite being on a straight (the camber of the road being enough to make the rear slide). I gradually slowed the bike without any sudden actions, brought it onto a grass verge when I could (knowing there would be more grip on the grass than there would be on the tarmac in those frozen conditions), and leant it up against a gate (the side stand would be no use). I looked up and saw a car, who must have been a minute or 2 in front of me on the road, parked upside down in a ditch. Because I was on a bike, and a racing replica at that, I could tell there was ice and react to it long before the corner... so in a weird way, I was benefited from being on a bike, whereas if I'd been in a car, as that driver in front of me was, I'd have been the one upside down in the ditch.

    I must have had a bike for 5 or 6 years and being my only mode of transport to work, rode throughout the winter in ice and snow (unless I couldn't get it up the hill from the garage) and didn't fall off once other than the 2 accidents detailed above (both of which were in fine, dry weather). Even though you're likely to use your car in the winter, I will say that even on untreated rural roads in northern England with standard tyres, if you approach it with the right frame of mind, you can still make the journey... though when you try to get off the bike, you'll likely take the seat with you.
    Last edited by this_is_gav; 26-08-2011 at 11:18 PM.

  8. #8
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    Yeah what Betty said. Don't buy the Duke for commuting.

    Having passed my bike test aged 17 I then didn't ride for another 10 years. When I got a new job that paid far more than I'd been on previously I bought a bike to get to work- a Kawasaki ER5. When I first rode it it scared the hell out of me; I quite quickly got used to the speed- then I crashed, twice, by riding like a total tit.

    In a car I'm a really safe driver- I can certainly make progress, but I know the difference between pressing on and taking unnecessary risks. On a 500cc+ bike it's so easy to nip round cars that you consider to be dawdling that you can easily end up in trouble if you don't read the road right.

    But OTOH the ER-5 did 65mpg as long as I kept the tyres pumped up. And my record for the 9 mile commute to my workplace- at 3.45am- was 14 minutes dead (30mph limit all the way ).

    In the end my bike fell off its side stand, knackered a shock absorber, and long story short I never got round to fixing it up. I sold it a couple of months ago for what it owed me in new parts that I'd bought and never fitted.

    But yesterday I was reading MCN and saw that you can now buy a brand new Honda Vision 110 for £1795. 8bhp, 60mph top speed, 120+ mpg. I'm pretty sure that the dear old C90 cost about £1400 when they stopped selling it 10 or so years ago- and design classic that it is, it was still basically a 40 year old bike, with interesting/dangerous handling. Adjusted for inflation the vision is cheaper but is a far better, more modern bike. I'm still crunching the sums, I guess it comes down to how much it'll cost me to insure vs. how much it'll save me doing 100+mpg on my commute compared to my 35mpg diesel Mondeo.

    If you're considering spending £5k on a commuter bike to save time and petrol, you really don't want an old stock air cooled Ducati. As I said I crashed my ER-5 twice, both times by losing the front on the brakes. So now, if i was going to buy another road bike (as opposed to a scooter ) I'd be dead keen on a bike with ABS. I can't find the list price for a Kawasaki ER-6F with ABS but I think it's under £6k. Nearly new bikes are available for ~4K. I don't really care for ABS on cars because locking the wheels doesn't cause you to crash, unless you fail to let off the brakes so you can steer. On the bike I only saved one front end slide, the other two sent me down like a sack of spuds.

    So, sorry about the unfocussed drunken post, but a bike for commuting is a good idea as long as it has ABS, an old Ducati isn't.

    And don't do what I did and assume that having read bike mags for 10 years makes you a great rider. Pass your test and then get some proper training- apparently the police bikesafe scheme is well worth doing (assuming it hasn't fallen victim to the cuts ).

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    ho! ho! ho! mofo santa claus's Avatar
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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    I have a bike and a car. The car is worth twice the cost of the bike but the bike is treated with love whilst the car is expected just to start and go on demand or get kicked.

    Biking isn't just about economy. That's just advertising. Biking literally opens up new roads. I drive the car when I have to but I ride the bike for the sheer pleasure. It's no good trying to understand that if you're not a biker.

    Biking bad points: you get wet, you get cold, it doesn't appeal to (many) women, car drivers are secretly jealous of you. Manhole covers, drains, leaves, painted road markings and the police quickly become your enemy.

    Biking good points: you automatically qualify for the unconditional friendship of thousands of other bikers; you feel alive, you will find you smile to yourself more often, you can beat traffic, you can always park near to where you are going, you can out-accelerate fancy sports cars even with a modest bike, you become a better road user and let's face it, you are special.

    When my bike broke down a few years back, a bunch of grubby-looking Hell's Angels I'd never met before carried the bike onto a train for me so I could get home. Not only that, they came with me to lift the bike off at the other end. They expected nothing in return. You don't meet people like that very often.

    I will always own a bike. It is, as they say, what I do. Your wife, if she loves you, will understand that. Now go get a bike and start living. A CBR 600 like Jasp says is a good buy.

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    Spider pig, spider pig
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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    LOL, shows how much I know, it didn't even occur to me that the Ducati was a ludicrously overpowered bike - I'm so used to cars that 900CC didn't seem that much. I just saw that it was on HUKD and seemed to have a lot of good feedback! Need to start at the beginning I think.

    How cheap do you reckon you can get a decent 125CC bike? Should I be looking at something like this? I just can't imagine myself on a scooter somehow - I think that mosquito whine would drive me mad...

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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    LOL, shows how much I know, it didn't even occur to me that the Ducati was a ludicrously overpowered bike - I'm so used to cars that 900CC didn't seem that much. I just saw that it was on HUKD and seemed to have a lot of good feedback! Need to start at the beginning I think.

    How cheap do you reckon you can get a decent 125CC bike? Should I be looking at something like this? I just can't imagine myself on a scooter somehow - I think that mosquito whine would drive me mad...
    id say the cbr125 is the nicest looking best performing 125.. i have a mosquito and really in a predicament as to whether i want to go car or bike route as i do love motorcycles.. but i would really miss the buzz you get from driving one if i went the car route.

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    But Why's It So Cold?. jon bda's Avatar
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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    How many miles a day is the work trip mate?

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    Senior Member Betty_Swallocks's Avatar
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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    To be honest I always felt safer on a 500 than I did on a 125. The 125 is too light. It gets blown about a lot more if the wind gets up and the narrow tyres have a much smaller contact patch so the bike feels less sure footed on greasy city roads.

    Also, 125s tend to be pretty small so unless you're on the small side yourself you'd probably find the size of a 500 more comfortable.

    The ER5 Rave mentioned is an excellent bike. It's the same engine as the GPZ but detuned by 20%.
    I wouldn't spend too much money on a commuter bike. Commuting racks up the mileage on a bike and the value plummets correspondingly. You can get a decent 500 for under 2 grand so you're not going to lose so much. If you spend 5 grand on a bike it'll be worth peanuts in a couple of years anyway so you might as well start off with a cheaper low mileage second hand bike in the first place.

    Did you look at the link in my first post?
    "Free speech includes not only the inoffensive but the irritating, the contentious, the eccentric, the heretical, the unwelcome and the provocative provided it does not tend to provoke violence. Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not worth having."

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    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I just can't imagine myself on a scooter somehow - I think that mosquito whine would drive me mad...
    Many- if not most- scooters are now four strokes (the 2-stroke as a road engine is all but dead now, just can't get them to pass emissions legislation).

    If your commute involves any motorways or fast A-Roads a scooter of 125cc or less won't really cut it, but there are plenty of 250-500cc scooters available. My Dad had (possibly still has, I haven't seen him for about a year) a Yamaha T-Max which he has ridden between London and Kenilworth with no problems at all. He reckons he got it up to 100mph on the M45- just because it's such a quiet road that you might as well try it.

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    Chaos Monkey Apex's Avatar
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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    To be a biker is to be reminded you are alive. So many of us go through life cutting ourselfs off, dulling the senses; only on a bike do you get the feeling of being alive.

    If all you are doing is going back and forth between work then really do you need a large bike that won't get near the mpg of the smaller bikes ? are you doing this to save money or pleasure or a bit of both ?

    There are plenty of decent 125 bikes around now and you are looking at 100+mpg (11 quid to go 250 miles on my old YBR, beat that car ! ) iirc the new Honda CBF and Yam YBR's are cracking 120mpg !

    I got by bike in 2008 and paid 1600 for it - sold it for 1k a few weeks ago
    did all the services my self
    did 250mile to a tank (before i chickend out - did push it to 280 miles once before and thats when it conked out 10m from a petrol station )
    parts are relative cheap compard to a car
    15 quid road tax
    90quid ins

    It lacked balls but in traffic it was a godsend; it taught me to be aware of whats around me, it taught me so many things.

    I miss it but i've done over 5 years of riding in all weather and it's worn me out; no matter how good your kit it will get to you sooner or later.

    Now i drive a diesel Mondeo and life seems duller if not safe :s

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    Re: To motorbike or not to motorbike?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    LOL, shows how much I know, it didn't even occur to me that the Ducati was a ludicrously overpowered bike - I'm so used to cars that 900CC didn't seem that much.
    Yup - power to weight is what to watch.

    RX8: roughly 230bhp vs best part of 1.4 tons. Roughly 165 BHP/Ton
    Bike: 79bhp, under 200kg, call it 200 for ease. Nearly 400 BHP/ton.

    That's a lot by anyone's standards.

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